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Post by welshiegirl on Apr 4, 2013 16:19:13 GMT
Okay, I've had my section C for 2 years now and I can honestly say she is the laziest pony I've ever met!
She's not unfit or unwell in anyway, and she can do it she chooses not to!
We have her on Topspec Turbo Oats, she has a breakfast&night feed, and she has two topspec cup fulls in each one! (So 4 cups a day!!!!!)
Going to a show on sunday we've kept her in since Monday morning, shes been ridden Tue&Today and yet it's not made a difference AT ALL!
She will start to be a TINY bit more forward after warming in for ten minutes but it's still not enough to be forward.
As I say it's not that she's unfit it's she IS BONEIDLE!
9/10 shows I've ridden her at she's been dead to my leg and lazy barely making it round a short 6 horse go round (When she can full well do it!!)
Yes my leg strength is part to play but even my Instructor who literally has muscles of steel , She can totally go to being Lazy Bow!
We have thought is she bored of schooling? So she is hacked out 4/6 times a week and she does enjoy her work!
HELP PLEASE! What do we do?!
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Post by Sasha on Apr 4, 2013 16:55:22 GMT
Try getting her out to a cross country schooling day and maybe the beach, try and change the work she oes to make it more fun for both of you
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Post by jacksprat on Apr 4, 2013 17:47:43 GMT
try baileys endurance mix. we had this problem with our fell and this was the only thing that made a difference and believe me we tried them all
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Post by LMSmith on Apr 5, 2013 9:23:26 GMT
I have a welsh C gelding who sounds just like your mare  The best thing I found with my lad was leg yielding and turn on the forehand, this made him engage his back end which then made it easier for him to go forward  |
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Post by lilliella1 on Apr 5, 2013 9:48:43 GMT
Red Cell, helped my dog idle coloured. x
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Post by welshiegirl on Apr 6, 2013 19:54:59 GMT
Hey guys, bought some baileys endurance mix and will give that ago.
We'll try to take her out to a fun day as she does enjoy jumping but I don't so its just the case of a jockey.
She's at a show tomorrow so when I next school her I'll give the leg yielding etc a go- never heard of red cell what is it?
I'll post again tomorrow, her night+breakfast feed is filled with oats, endurance mix and chop so hopefully it might make a difference. Will let you know& thank you for your replies they are greatly appreciated xx
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justliloldme
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Post by justliloldme on Apr 6, 2013 20:18:34 GMT
Vitamin B, my lazy pony has turned nuts on Cavalesse for his skin, or an iron supplement, stuffing food in only going to make them stodgy, mine have hay or haylage only and cavalesse into the one that needs its mouth
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justliloldme
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Post by justliloldme on Apr 6, 2013 20:20:01 GMT
also a small strip of plastic (3/ 4 inches just to make a diff sound) on the end of a lunge whip on the lunge or on the end of a schooling whip to sharpen reflexes, just be careful if you introduce it it can be very effective....
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Post by hs on Apr 6, 2013 20:41:38 GMT
If you don't like jumping have you tried learning some dressage tests on her as these have more transitions than showing so this might help her listen and be more responsive to the leg as she won't know what is coming next and also can be more interesting for a pony.
I have a laid back native who was not keen on school but since he has started doing dressage he has become much more forward to the leg and is not lazy. I don't think feeding high starch competition mixes makes a great deal of difference as on a laid back sort it tends to convert to fat rather than more expressive energy, I am presuming your pony is not overweight?
Travelling can also be quite tiring for them too.
I put my pony on global herbs restore after he got a chest infection and this was like rocket fuel for him!
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Post by dogandbone on Apr 6, 2013 21:32:22 GMT
I would try 2 things - Firstly take him off all cereal! I have found that this can have the effect of laziness, - almost as though they feel bloated and 'can't be bothered'!!
The second thing I would do is try Bowen Treatment! It relaxes muscles and helps the body regenerate its own "well being" I have had huge results with this combination, and turned animals into very forward going happy ponies, who go with a big smile, pricked ears and an enthusiasm for life generally
Good luck, I hope this helps!
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Post by welshiegirl on Apr 8, 2013 18:40:30 GMT
Thanks guys, heres an update! Took her to the show yesterday and nope its not working! Stilllazy pony. We spoke to Peter @ Fylde, and he said Red Cell as well. We've though about that dogandbone but she's worse without!! justliloldme, we are meaning to try the vitamin b so we'll try it this week. I'll google some tests and print them and do some work!! Took her for a gallop today, well we tried because we turned her out today and she galloped round and trotted round like a HOYS c! Could of killed her, but after this pretend gallop today she did move better and was more forward. www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=465033963565775xx |
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Post by GinaGeo on Apr 8, 2013 19:41:22 GMT
Some horse's aren't naturally the most forward, but you can school them to be sharper and more responsive. I'd really focus on ensuring she's in front of the leg - if you ask her to trot and she ignores you then, reinforce it again with a more exagerated aid, if she ignores again employ a "pony club" kick or a sharp tap with a schooling whip behind the leg. If she shoots forward let her, that's the response you want. She'll soon respond to the light aid instead of the bigger one. Always be consistent with this, if the transition isn't quality then back down to walk and do it again. Make sure you aren't saying "trot, trot, trot, trot" with a heel niggle each stride, a nagged pony will totally ignore you pretty quickly. I'd also hack out as much as possible and ride as many transitions as possible. Transitions include those within the pace, so pushing on for medium, bringing back for collection, back to working etc. Walk - canter. Canter - walk. Are very good for sitting them on their hocks and getting them thinking forward. Carl Hester suggets that you should ride 200 transitions per session to get a really forward thinking horse. If you ride for 45 minutes that would be a transition every 14 seconds. Try it - you'd be surprised how sharp it makes you both! You'll also have a frazzled brain trying to keep count, so won't care if she's not forward lol! ;D I'd also use lateral work to sit her up, so medium trot into Shoulder in, about four strides of shoulder in and then back to medium trot. The lateral work will reinforce the responsiveness to the leg. If she's being backward in canter, don't be afraid to get off her back and push her into a medium canter, open the stride up and then sit down again to collect everything back up with a more active hind leg. If she backs off again, back out the saddle to the medium. Some Long and Low work might help open her stride up as well and will help to build quality muscle Personally, I wouldn't keep a pony in and nor would I suggest feeding a native starch and sugar feed is a good idea in the long term. I'd have her out as much as possible, and feed her a fibre based diet. Get her nice and trim and really very fit. I'd also try and give her a jump to keep her brain active - running her through some grids would also sharpen her up. You could do this loose schooling if you don't like jumping yourself. |
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Post by dogandbone on Apr 8, 2013 20:19:41 GMT
Personally I think all the suggestions are great to try, but GinaGeo, I have to ask, - have you ever tried doing what you suggest on a horse or pony that is totally lazy? Actually needs 'pony club' type kicks to even get it moving?  I think it sounds a great idea, but in my experience with a similar type of animal that Welshiegirl is describing, your exercises would be impossible!!! Medium trot is about as far away from possible as walk to canter!! |
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Post by GinaGeo on Apr 8, 2013 21:40:39 GMT
It would be a work in progress of course - I wouldn't expect it to happen overnight! Transitions aren't out of reach for any combination, it doesn't need to pretty at this stage, only effective - go means go. Medium trot, is within reach of the vast majority, for some it will take some serious hardwork for others it's more natural - I never said it would be easy. As for walk to canter, with time, the right approach and the timing of aids it's achievable. I have indeed ridden some seriously lazy ponies in my time; I spent my formative "Pony" years in a riding school - a "Pony club" kick delivered at the right time is an invaluable aid. It shouldn't need using all the time to get a pony moving - the pony needs to be schooled so that it's not needed. I've never owned a "made" pony/horse; and as a child I always outgrew them just as I learnt to ride them - devestating. I have a youngster who I've done myself, he's naturally quite a backward sort. Given the choice he'd amble rather than march and dawdle rather than stride out. The difference between him and something truly lazy is that he's not been allowed to ignore me, he has recieved one or two rather large thwack's when he's decided to turn a total blind eye to what's being asked. It's not needed now, but if I'd sat pretty and ineffective it'd still be happening. I could stuff him full of as much cereal as I liked, Oats make no differerence, and keep him in - to no effect. Jumping really helps him - and is something I enjoy too - which is very helpful. I don't profess to "Know it all", I'm quite happy to hold my hands up and say that I know very little in comparison to many. But these are tried and tested methods taught by instructors round the country. Some horse's are backward, but riding transitions and insisting that they go forward when asked makes a real difference. You shouldn't have to pony club kick anything just to make it trot - not unless something somewhere along the line has gone very wrong in the pony's training.  |
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Post by emilyequi on Apr 8, 2013 22:13:36 GMT
i agree with ginageo, i've tried it before and it works!
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Post by welshiegirl on Apr 9, 2013 6:53:21 GMT
Ill give that a go, too, I do do the transition from walk to trot like that, ask quietely with the leg, if no respones try harder with the leg and again if there was no response then reinforce with a schooling whip, or a harder kick but there have been situations and no matter how schooled or many lessons or how many times she isn't allowed to not respond to the leg she can still recquire pony club kicks just to get her to walk.
I do niggle with my legs and that has partially made her numb so I'm just correcting this- my leg niggling comes from when she was LAZIER(!!!) Before and used to have to be kicked every stride to keep going.
Lesson today so might try some jumping if I have the guts!
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sarahp
Happy to help
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Post by sarahp on Apr 9, 2013 7:23:09 GMT
Good for you welshiegirl, schooling is what will get your pony more responsive beyond anything else. The sequence needs to be used for EVERY transition though, not just walk to trot, to make the point to the pony. It's a shame you fell into the leg niggling habit in the first place as this sounds like the root of your problem, but at least now you know that!
You don't say how old she is, or at what stage of schooling she was at when you got her - some seem lazy as babies because they haven't yet learned the aids properly. It shouldn't be a question of strength of legs - mine were always as weak as a kitten and I much the Ds I rode to be very light to ride so schooled them to go like that.
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justliloldme
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Post by justliloldme on Apr 9, 2013 8:29:35 GMT
My very lay sec a lead rein pony is now 9 and recently did his very first show off the lead with freinds daughter going very sweetly, this pony suffered various food allergies and skin soreness, we have used a product called cavalesse, and keeping him boett rugged all year round and on a very basic diet of hay / haylage mix and quality shavings bedding, its only march i know and we could itch yet, but we are seeing far more energy already and is loving his work off the lead rein and even being a little devil at times ( which is good to see as seeing him in immesnse discomfort with his skin is distressing).
I attribute this to his much simplified diet, his skin comfort and to the intesive b vitamins cavalesse has in it, some times feeding they SPARKY food has the opposite effect, get the red cell in or propell by equine america and maybe a b vitamin supplement or good old brewers yeast ( mine wont eat it it is an aquired taste).
If you have checked saddle, back, bitting arrangements, teeth, etc then need to look for the other factors, is it bored (my a doesnt like the school unless there is a jump), its it just naughty ? in which case may need a few wakey uppey flicks to realise ( im NOT telling you to beat it up this is after you have explored all other aspects) seriously though the small strip of plastic works wonders and is just used as a wake me up ...
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Post by GinaGeo on Apr 9, 2013 9:06:47 GMT
Just a thought Welshie girl. Is there any possibility your pony may be an EPSM sufferer? The symptoms tend to be lazy, backward, bit stiff. I couldn't tell you exactly what it is, but friends horse's that suffer from it are described as lazy. It's something to do with the over production of Lactic acid, meaning they always feel achy and a bit sore - like they've done a ten hour work out the day before. I know that low starch/sugar diets are recommended as are high oil and high fibre diets. As well as keeping them very warm. A difference can normally be seen if you cut the cereals and keep her toasty warm. Might be worth a try.
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sarahp
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Post by sarahp on Apr 9, 2013 10:13:51 GMT
Worth a thought. If they've had one episode they get it more easily in future. I can't remember if there's a test for it but could be worth asking your vet. Without looking it up I think it's something to do with incorrect starch metabolism.
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Post by welshiegirl on Apr 9, 2013 18:36:06 GMT
Hmm will look into it.
She was VERY forward going today, lunged on the pessoa and then ridden (half an hour in total)
And went beautifully.
Sarahp, she's welsh section C, 6 been broken just before she was four. I spoke to the girl who used to ride her and she said she was lazy. She really doesn't enjoy being indoors and this can make her lazier yet she can be lazy outdoors.
She isn't at peak fitness and gets hacked at least 3/4 times a week schooled twice. As I say she isn't at peak but she isn't unfit when we first got her due to the amount of ponies they had she was only ridden once or twice a week 2 times.
Since then her fitness has improved greatly been ridden at least 4/5 times a week normally 6 days 7 if necessary.
She's not generally stiff or backward, and she's quite a warm pony as in she can go winter in just a heavyweight rug (300g) but heavy denier, doesn't need clipping keeps her coat etc (if this what youre referring to)
It definitely is nothing to do with saddle, it was fitted by Peter a few months ago, teeth done regularly, wolf teeth removed etc, very happy with her bits and bridles.
I believe it may truly be bordem. She enjoys galloping and hacking, jumping etc hence why we've done this and made her schooling sessions more fun.
Could be naughtyness too though, shes more lazy with me (Leg niggling but she knows I struggle more than anyone else as they have much stronger legs) and we have used wakey up flicks or the odd sharp smack and this does work.
Thank you for this feedback guys its brilliant!
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sarahp
Happy to help
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Post by sarahp on Apr 10, 2013 18:12:42 GMT
Avoid arenas and school on hacks then! Natives are intelligent and do get bored in them.
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Post by welshiegirl on Apr 10, 2013 18:51:35 GMT
yep, rode her in the field today let her gallop before schooling her there and she was very forward again!
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Post by Kerbeck on Apr 11, 2013 9:33:08 GMT
My fell used to be like this, since I moved to a yard with no school 6 months a go he is like a different pony - now mostly hacked (3 or 4 times a week) and ridden in a large field maximum twice a week, not stopped him getting 70% plus in his last 3 dressage tests and has been champion under saddle at last 4 shows!
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Post by welshiegirl on Apr 11, 2013 18:16:55 GMT
I think thats exactly what it is. She was lunged on the pessoa then ridden and wasn't that great, then she was taken in the field for a blast and a little tiny bit of schooling and it was a different pony!
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Post by highlandmad on Apr 12, 2013 12:52:23 GMT
this sounds just like my 4yr highland.
im slowly getting there with her now after alot of work and now the fields have been opened up to ride on im hoping to try get her out on them for a gallop
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Post by welshiegirl on Apr 12, 2013 18:51:29 GMT
given her the day off today, depending on the weather she'll be hacked tomorrow, and on sunday she'll either be hacked or school weather (and after Saturday night's partying LOL)
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Post by welshiegirl on Apr 28, 2013 7:41:38 GMT
Well she has baileys endurance mix, red cell, oats and chop, its definitely working as she was 8th in her first ever HOYS qual yesterday at NPS Area 5!
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Post by welshiegirl on Nov 3, 2013 17:24:16 GMT
Never thanked ou all for your comments! With the red cell, endurance mix, vitiman b and mixed work ( hacking, galloping, jumping) she came joint 2nd at the Yorkshire where she ended up 4th! Unfortunately and very frustratingly suffered an injury in the stable the day after and had to have op so our hard work payed of for 2 days! Still in recovery but aims to get out next season- so a big thank you for all your tips as every single one helped! Xxx
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I think it sounds a great idea, but in my experience with a similar type of animal that Welshiegirl is describing, your exercises would be impossible!!!
