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Post by rubyshoes1 on Jun 24, 2014 15:12:05 GMT
Have I missed something? This is being reposted on facebook by several people, I just wondered what it is referring to, any ideas NEWS FROM SHOWING WORLD
A statement from the BSPS - Unsuitable Bridles
The British Show Pony Society is concerned that some ponies are being shown in bridles (bits) that we consider to be unsuitable for a child’s pony.
These bits are very severe and not suitable for novice and inexperienced riders. Judges have also reported that some competitors are altering bits to make them more severe and adding curb chains to bits that were not designed for that purpose. These bits are often being used as a short cut to effective schooling and training.
Judges will take in account the suitability of a bit for the pony and rider and may well chose to severely penalise either in the placing of the pony or in the marks allocated for performance where they believe the bit is unsuitable and not conducive to being used in the show ring. Competitors are advised that judges will look more favourably on ponies that are schooled/trained appropriately. · ·
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Post by titch on Jun 24, 2014 15:18:16 GMT
Ponies being over bitted.
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Post by nici on Jun 24, 2014 16:24:13 GMT
Not before time!
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Post by brt on Jun 24, 2014 16:42:15 GMT
Finally, been a pet hate with me for years, glad societies are opening up their eyes and minds.....
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Post by Pepper on Jun 24, 2014 16:49:57 GMT
interesting and positive move.
bring back ground work, manners and schooling the old fashioned way!
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Post by fanfarefan on Jun 24, 2014 17:10:45 GMT
its always amazed me that there is a list of bits that are allowed ,or werent allowed, whats wrong with the good old snaffle , schooling , and learning to ride properly, i can tell you when you ride your pony bare back , and in a headcollar with a rope to grab hold of , you soon learn after the first few falls to sit properly , use your seat and sit back , the head collar and rope are only there reall y to give you half a chance of hanging on to the pony when youve hit the ground again
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Post by waspblue on Jun 24, 2014 17:20:09 GMT
This has been a long time coming and should be looked at in other classes too. Certain classes are worse offenders than others. It will be a lovely thing to once more see a nice pony, going well and with good manners. All these take time and effort to teach and that effort should therefore be rewarded. Too many times I have seen a pony do a lovely show and be well mannered in the go round, only for it to be then put behind something that has misbehaved, cantered on the wrong leg or other such things. Sometimes flashy looks will get a pony through, when really it didn't go as well. I'd like to see more ride judges, esp in larger breed m&m,s, that would cause a shake up sometimes I'm sure.
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Post by muggley on Jun 24, 2014 18:00:33 GMT
Time to get rid of Wilkie Gags in Lead Rein & First Ridden classes for sure!
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Post by flo1 on Jun 24, 2014 18:34:24 GMT
Time to get rid of Wilkie Gags in Lead Rein & First Ridden classes for sure! A 'wilkie' isn't a gag, it's a leverage bit, more like a kimblewick without the curb chain/strap.
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Post by mikeymoon on Jun 24, 2014 19:50:32 GMT
This is a very welcome move, which I also feel should be extended to what is worked in outside the ring.... There will still be bespoke bits being used though, they might look like an ordinary snaffle ring but its whats in the mouth piece...and that cant be checked or seen..
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Post by brt on Jun 24, 2014 20:17:46 GMT
This is a very welcome move, which I also feel should be extended to what is worked in outside the ring.... There will still be bespoke bits being used though, they might look like an ordinary snaffle ring but its whats in the mouth piece...and that cant be checked or seen.. Very true but i'd like to think that damage would be more limited without the outer leverages and gag rings
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Post by sjw87 on Jun 24, 2014 21:11:14 GMT
I'm not a member of bsps but I think this is a positive step and hope to see more societies follow suit.
I would rather see a set list of banned/allowed bits though like british dressage as being open to judges interpretation could vary hugely. Only the other day I heard a disgruntled competitor muttering about how they would be 'having words' with a judge as they weren't as high up the line as they wanted to be and I worry that judges will be open to even more abuse if they penalise bitting.
Sent from my GT-I9195 using proboards
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Post by GaynorStones on Jun 24, 2014 21:52:12 GMT
Think its important that they do produce a list of banned bits for both competitors and judges to see
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Post by jimjim on Jun 25, 2014 5:22:37 GMT
There most definitely needs to be a banned list. This is too wishy washy a statement. Personally I don't see what is wrong with a small size Wilkie bit but am horrified at 3 ring tom thumbs and Swales being used. This is too open to misinterpretation of guide lines.
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Post by dizzydora on Jun 25, 2014 6:12:10 GMT
There most definitely needs to be a banned list. This is too wishy washy a statement. Personally I don't see what is wrong with a small size Wilkie bit but am horrified at 3 ring tom thumbs and Swales being used. This is too open to misinterpretation of guide lines. pelhams have 3 rings as well....Tom thumbs have no curb chain...a short neat angled shank unlike some pelhams with long straight shanks and a tight curb.....
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Post by dizzydora on Jun 25, 2014 6:22:31 GMT
Also just to add....people are quite prepared to put TWO bits in a horses mouth when using a double but have a hissy fit when people put two reins on a tom thumb which has a simple french link type mouthpiece that is sweet iron & copper....but it's ok because a double is tradition regardless of the fact you're putting TWO bits in your horses mouth and use a curb with it...
I have used both the double and the tom thumb so have no problem with either...my point is that people who are against tom thumbs are generally happy to use a double which is a bit hypocritical really when you actually stop and look at it....
Well done bsps for doing this...now let's see if other societies follow and let's see ALL novice classes in snaffles regardless of the type of horse you're riding...
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sarahp
Happy to help
Posts: 9,510
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Post by sarahp on Jun 25, 2014 7:12:18 GMT
The two bits of a double give you a choice of which to use - as long as you can ride correctly with two reins of course - so kinder to the horse, as long as the bits fit the mouth.
I think much of the trouble is that the mechanics of the action of different bits isn't always properly understood, and they can be used as a quick fix instead of proper schooling.
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Post by Karen, garrettponies on Jun 25, 2014 7:42:46 GMT
Think its important that they do produce a list of banned bits for both competitors and judges to see Absolutely! And it needs to be across the societies with clear lists and photos if necessary of the bits not allowed. Am I dreaming that the NPS rule book has pictures of bits in it? I cant find it to look. Its a good move but does need to be clearer. I hope it will help prevent young ponies being forced into outlines and we'll see ponies being properly schooled and riders being taught how to use their hands not just jamming them to the saddle sitting there kick, kick, kicking!
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Post by honeypot on Jun 25, 2014 8:10:29 GMT
Lots of adults and children do not ride with an independent seat, the reins are a prop. The idea of the two reins to complete the 'look' for showing with the head tucked in goes a long way to causing the problem of stronger bits. If the rider has no idea how one rein works how is giving them another going to make any difference, riding and using both actions of the bit or bits take knowledge and subtlety. When my kids showed we used a snaffle Pelham, leather curb strap and they were taught to have the curb rein loose so it had little or no action so they were virtually riding in a snaffle, damage limitation. Perhaps if Judges started dropping ponies for over biting and poor riding and told the riders why people would get the message. In dressage there is a rider mark, that judges do use, and give a fantastic rosette for best rider in the class judged only on the riders skill not on the pony. I have started collecting bits and I buy mainly small ones so I look through the ads quite often I am often horrified with what is for sale secondhand on here some of which were hardly ever seen 10 years ago. I think one day I am going to make a display of this rogues gallery. Before you buy a bit find out how it works and do not buy it because everyone else has one or it 'looks good'.
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Post by cayo on Jun 26, 2014 6:58:40 GMT
Personally i hate the bog standard old snaffle for its nutcracker action and have found in general when breaking ponys horses that they hate these bits ,while they may in time become used to them i can see from when i start the ponies they are not happy to accept these bits so i no longer even try opting for a snaffle with a bevel ,the good old fashioned snaffle is not so good in my opinion and i opt for a more updated approach to bits ,and while some animals as mentioned may look to go badly in the bits mentioned that some want banning many also go very well and correct in them,lack of schooling is lack of schooling and not necessarily down to the bit in its mouth ,if a pony or horse performs well or badly surely it should be judged on its performance and not on whats in its mouth.The use of wilkie and swales bits is worse than the use of over long shank pelhems and double bits with over tight curbs .
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Post by pipandwill on Jun 26, 2014 8:22:39 GMT
Definitely need a banned list. Please ban the swales, it is a driving bit for god sakes. Never intended to be a ridden bit! A well schooled horse or pony shouldn't need anything more than a simple Pelham or double, and in that, should merely be ridden of the top rein.
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sarahp
Happy to help
Posts: 9,510
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Post by sarahp on Jun 26, 2014 8:58:09 GMT
Cayo, I've been riding and breaking for 30 years odd with double jointed snaffles, I hate single joints too, but most importantly most ponies I've met do. So what do you use instead? Surely the term snaffle refers to the action of the bit and not on the exact mouthpiece or sidepieces, and in my view everything should be broken using a SUITABLE snaffle before going to to something more refined.
I still go back to my old books when in doubt - Henry Wynmalen's Equitation for breaking, schooling and riding, and Elwyn Hartley Edwards Bitting for the mechanics of bits. Agreed there are many advances in bits nowadays, we have used some here, but I do think there is now great ignorance on how the different types of bit work, ie WHY we use what we do, and also in schooling to obtain a correct outline working from behind. so bits are used as a quick fix without any thought of why or how.
If judging a ridden horse, surely one that goes beautifully in a snaffle or neat, properly fitted and used double/pelham should be commended over one that needs a mouth full of ironmongery to produce what only appears to be the same performance?
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Post by brt on Jun 26, 2014 15:45:28 GMT
Lots of adults and children do not ride with an independent seat, the reins are a prop. Couldn't agree more, i'm old so back in the 60's when i first started having lessons we weren't allowed stirrups until we had balance. When we did get stirrups we had only one, alternating from left to right. Old hat it may be but even now when i do occasionally ride, it takes a heck of a lot to unseat me and my hands are light and totally independent of my body, i think if i tried to use my reins to balance me, that's when i'd fall off ! We also only had snaffles and Kimblewicks, nickel ones at that !
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sarahp
Happy to help
Posts: 9,510
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Post by sarahp on Jun 26, 2014 17:32:34 GMT
Learned in the 50s, jumping lessons with no reins or stirrups, the former crossed across the chest and the latter across the withers! Daughter's instructor in the early 80s made them work (in an enclosed school) with no reins, working the pony with seat and leg aids only.
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Post by ponyclubpartbred on Jun 26, 2014 18:05:04 GMT
Don't know if it has been mentioned or others agree but I really don't see why some horses are shown in a double bridle with a Wilkie as the bridoon?? Surely the poll pressure is high enough in a Wilkie without starting to show it as part of a double. Not having a go at go at anyone just voicing an opinion to see what others think..
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Post by thatboythatgirl on Jun 26, 2014 18:34:20 GMT
I was taught to ride with out reins and stirrups jump with cups of water in my hand etc and im only 27 so dont think it's that old school just depends who taught you
Is use a wilkie as a bradoon for my maxi cob he goes well in it that way. He's normally rode in a wilkie everyday as hes a big strong horse in a snaffle once hes on his hocks he is hard to hold. My horse schooling routine consists of shoulder in leg yeilds etc to engage his hind quarters doesnt make him a poorly schooled horse because he wears a wilkie! He gets swapped into a hanging cheek the day of a dressage test, never once had a comment about lack of engagement of hind quaters!
It annoys me to see kids who when jumping fold but forget to give with there hands and have them in the stomachs jot allowing the horses to stretch over a fence and then they wonder why there ponies wont jump bigger fences! And kids in swaled doubles with the reins ties together in a knotvfor the kid to hold, then again most kids nowadays only know how to fix and hold a pony in shape rather not relax and give, for a reward of self carriage
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Post by ponymum on Jun 26, 2014 19:44:11 GMT
We need a list of these "Banned bits" otherwise the statement is simply just a statement! People cannot assume to know what bits the BSPS deem unsuitable!
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Post by ponymum on Jun 26, 2014 19:47:20 GMT
We need a list of these "Banned bits" otherwise the statement is simply just a statement! People cannot assume to know what bits the BSPS deem unsuitable!
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fernwhitecharity
Full Member
www.spanglefish.com/thefernwhitecharityshow
Posts: 229
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Post by fernwhitecharity on Jun 26, 2014 20:33:27 GMT
I would deem the following unsuitable for open classes: Tom Thumb gags used as 'Pelham' Any type of bubble bit used as a 'Pelham' Wilkies as bradoons, or anything other than a snaffle as a bradoon Swales
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Post by waspblue on Jun 26, 2014 21:00:58 GMT
I feel that BD rules regarding bits should also apply to showing. My horse goes very nicely in his double, ridden primarily off the snaffle rein and the faintest of touches on the curb rein when required, but he can also be ridden in a simple snaffle and at no point have I ever felt out of control because he is well schooled and is very polite and well mannered. I know of plenty of people whose ponies would not be able to do a dressage test as once their strong bits are removed all control is gone, which I find rather sad really, as some of these ponies would be more than capable of doing a very nice test if only they could be ridden in a snaffle, as per the rules. Incidentally, talking of ponies / horses hating single jointed bits, mine must be very strange, as despite me trying some very nice double jointed mouthpieces, he still much prefers and goes better in the old fashioned single jointed eggbutt snaffle that he came with. So it just shows, that they will tell us what they like if we listen. I must admit however to disliking seeing animals being ridden in Swales bits, as they are a driving bit and wether true or not, it would always put me off an animal, if I thought that it needed such a strong bit to be ridden in. I actually have commented on another thread about how nice it was to see a lovely well mannered highland pony come third in a HOYS Qualifier at Derbyshire Festival, just a pleasure to watch.
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