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Post by greyhorse on Jul 7, 2014 20:38:44 GMT
Question in title really but more of a discussion than anything I would like to show my borrowed and eventually my own pony in some more serious classes, for example open m&m rather than novice in a few months or so if he improves. He goes nicely in a snaffle and the last judge commented he was 'very mannerly' as he won his last novice class. I would like to enter open m&m classes this weekend but my instructor and friends all think he should be put in a pelham with two reins rather than his snaffle as the show is affiliated and he will look very novice as the only pony in a snaffle. I am happy(ish) to put him in the pelham but it seems a shame when he dosent actually need it, and also I've never used double reins for years and can't remember how!! Would a pony in a snaffle in open classes always be marked down? Does anyone else compete at higher levels (ie, county etc) in snaffles successfully? Why is it that Pelhams are the norm for open classes (not critisising, just wondering as in dressage it's snaffles they want!) If I was to put the pelham in, do I need a slip head on it or do I just use as normal? Thanks!
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Post by GaynorStones on Jul 7, 2014 20:41:15 GMT
I know of a couple of ponies that have qualified for Hoys in a snaffle!
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Post by bubbles1822 on Jul 7, 2014 21:02:22 GMT
there are only a few ponies shown higher up in snaffles, shame really but judges dont always like them. i have been told by a judge the pony i was riding needed 2 reins to complete the picture...
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Post by greyhorse on Jul 7, 2014 21:08:44 GMT
I can always rush out and buy a pelham in prep for the weekend if needs be as I don't want to look the odd one out!
I can't remember how to use two reins correctly can anyone point me in the right direction?
Also do I need a slip head with a show pelham?
It's a shame I can't leave him in his snaffle but I don't want to waste the entry fees and time if he is going to be placed at the bottom of the line because he looks novicey!
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Post by robrocks on Jul 7, 2014 21:35:29 GMT
I was swapped positions in a bsps class as the judge quote "there's nothing between you but I hadn't noticed you're not in a Pelham". Two weeks later in his first hoys class he got 5th highest ride out if 19 and he was the only one in a snaffle. Judge said it was nice to see him in a snaffle. You can't win so stick to what your horse is happy in.
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Post by GaynorStones on Jul 7, 2014 21:40:10 GMT
I was swapped positions in a bsps class as the judge quote "there's nothing between you but I hadn't noticed you're not in a Pelham". Two weeks later in his first hoys class he got 5th highest ride out if 19 and he was the only one in a snaffle. Judge said it was nice to see him in a snaffle. You can't win so stick to what your horse is happy in. Our little section B was very happy in his snaffle but we (rightly or wrongly) put him in a pelham to do qualifiers. He had a small jointed pelham so it was very much like his snaffle and my jockey just rode on the top rein. He qualified and competed very happily at RI
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sarahp
Happy to help
Posts: 9,510
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Post by sarahp on Jul 8, 2014 9:08:07 GMT
I suspect that you're far from the only one to do that!
Perhaps the question to ask is why are two reins, however arranged, required for an open class? In dressage, the idea is that horses should be schooled initially in a snaffle, then move to a double as it is more advanced and offers more refinement in usage.
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smalley
Full Member
Horses lend us the wings we lack
Posts: 419
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Post by smalley on Jul 8, 2014 10:09:01 GMT
I showed at Lincoln in a snaffle which again he prefers and goes well in, he does a lot of dressage and is very well schooled, however I found I could do with the extra brakes after doing my gallop so he will be in a simple jointed pelham for the bigger shows now as he does get excited - I only use the curb if I need to because he wouldn't go well if I rode with a contact on the curb all the time. But I think all ponies should properly schooled in a snaffle, and even competed in one until they learn to go properly, I hate seeing people riding with a tight curb rein and a slack snaffle rein because it just shows the pony is having it's head held in and I bet it wouldn't go like that with just a snaffle! I would stay in a snaffle if your pony is happy with it, the other week I got reserve champion in an open section and the judge said 'he goes nicely in his little snaffle' so don't worry about being the odd one out!
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justliloldme
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Post by justliloldme on Jul 8, 2014 10:17:29 GMT
Any good judge would NOT penalise a Pony for going nicely in a snaffle
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Post by CarolineNelson on Jul 8, 2014 16:35:55 GMT
I showed at Lincoln in a snaffle which again he prefers and goes well in, he does a lot of dressage and is very well schooled, however I found I could do with the extra brakes after doing my gallop so he will be in a simple jointed pelham for the bigger shows now as he does get excited - I only use the curb if I need to because he wouldn't go well if I rode with a contact on the curb all the time. But I think all ponies should properly schooled in a snaffle, and even competed in one until they learn to go properly, I hate seeing people riding with a tight curb rein and a slack snaffle rein because it just shows the pony is having it's head held in and I bet it wouldn't go like that with just a snaffle! I would stay in a snaffle if your pony is happy with it, the other week I got reserve champion in an open section and the judge said 'he goes nicely in his little snaffle' so don't worry about being the odd one out! A Judge (and a Trainer) here. Well said Smalley
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Post by robrocks on Jul 8, 2014 21:55:13 GMT
Overall I've had more judges pleased at his show and I don't think it's too his detriment being in a snaffle. Go with what makes the pony go best.
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Post by kateanne0 on Jul 16, 2014 9:38:19 GMT
ALWAYS, go with what your pony likes best! As he is a novice in an open class, why worry? Changing his bit now, when you say you've forgotten how to use two reins, spells disaster! One very upset pony, possibly set back in his education just to enter an open class?
Let the pony have a novice year in a snaffle and get used to the razzmattaz of the show ground, this will also give you time to start getting used to two reins in readiness for open classes.
When you are both ready and have practised at home riding with two reins move on to your open classes in a Pelham with no pressure on you or the pony.
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Post by Welshies222 on Jul 18, 2014 20:35:15 GMT
Definitely a Pelham I was ALWAYS marked down in classes when I had a snaffle in my welshb for m&m open classes
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Post by maisie23 on Jul 19, 2014 8:13:27 GMT
i rode in my snaffle in the open workers and open welsh at the weekend and was marked down and the judge said the picture wasnt complete i dont care though my mare went beautifully in her snaffle, showed a gallop and a controlled collection afterwards, more than somefurther up the line managed
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Post by CarolineNelson on Jul 19, 2014 12:44:45 GMT
Why ever not?
A Pelham (that is, an ordinary, sensible Pelham) is, was and always will be a COMPROMISE. It cannot do two jobs.
Think of a Fridge-Freezer. One unit but with two distinct functions. A Pelham is one unit and offers only one function.
A Swales "Three in One" pretends to 'sing, dance and wave its [underwear] in the air'. Three functions? In the mouth of a simple minded Equid? And possibly with an inexperienced pair of hands and a weak seat on the other end? I think not.
However, all that said, the overall picture in an OPEN SHOWING class is enhanced by the use of two reins. That is Tradition. This can be achieved in the short term, as a transitional comodity only, by a simple jointed Pelham used without a curbchain or perhaps with a correctly fitted elastic curbchain.
Any horse or pony which has undergone correct training from the beginning can - and should - be able to graduate to using a Double Bridle when ready to do so.
The exceptions should only occur if the animal has come from a very different background with very a different [or lacking] education - eg: Racing, Driving, Polo - and has perhaps not been 'mouthed' properly in the first place - or, if the animal has had the misfortune to have had an accident regarding the jaw.
As Judge, a BSPS/BHS Elite Trainer (and formerly for four decades a Producer) I feel that, in the ring, one should take each situation as one sees it.
Over-bitting is unnecessary. Gimmicky even. Correct schooling, correct riding and correct preparation is paramount.
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Post by snowman on Jul 19, 2014 15:47:02 GMT
Why ever not? A Pelham (that is, an ordinary, sensible Pelham) is, was and always will be a COMPROMISE. It cannot do two jobs. Think of a Fridge-Freezer. One unit but with two distinct functions. A Pelham is one unit and offers only one function. A Swales "Three in One" pretends to 'sing, dance and wave its [underwear] in the air'. Three functions? In the mouth of a simple minded Equid? And possibly with an inexperienced pair of hands and a weak seat on the other end? I think not. However, all that said, the overall picture in an OPEN SHOWING class is enhanced by the use of two reins. That is Tradition. This can be achieved in the short term, as a transitional comodity only, by a simple jointed Pelham used without a curbchain or perhaps with a correctly fitted elastic curbchain. Any horse or pony which has undergone correct training from the beginning can - and should - be able to graduate to using a Double Bridle when ready to do so. The exceptions should only occur if the animal has come from a very different background with very a different [or lacking] education - eg: Racing, Driving, Polo - and has perhaps not been 'mouthed' properly in the first place - or, if the animal has had the misfortune to have had an accident regarding the jaw. As Judge, a BSPS/BHS Elite Trainer (and formerly for four decades a Producer) I feel that, in the ring, one should take each situation as one sees it. Over-bitting is unnecessary. Gimmicky even. Correct schooling, correct riding and correct preparation is paramount. Caroline I salute you - every word of this correct. People Don't have the patience to wait and let a pony develop in its own time, they want everything yesterday. There are too many quick fixes - " all the gear, with no idea"
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