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Post by Losing battle on Jul 9, 2014 21:46:08 GMT
Why are some people such sore losers? We should be going to shows because we enjoy it not to just chase tickets or for a red rosette.
Seen some comments today about gys and there having a right strop because they didnt get placed in hoys class. Thats just how it is. Its not just at big shows it happens either. You should be happy with where ever you get placed. Its meant to be fun. I go to shows and i dont come at the top of the line all the time but always go home happy. People say bet your not pleased with that placing but i am. Ive had a nice day and my pony went well.
Rant over
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Post by losing battle on Jul 9, 2014 21:51:18 GMT
Sometimes you dont get placed where you think you should but thats just one of them things. You dont need to go and have a fit about it. Just makes you look like a sore loser.
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Post by pipandwill on Jul 9, 2014 21:52:46 GMT
Very true. If people can't cope with controversial judging, showing isn't the game for them. I moan about judges, but in the end, what can you do? You won't get your money back, so just make a note and don't go under them again. What really gets me is when some top people think they are obliged to get placed, and they really throw their toys out the pram when they aren't placed. * runs off before I get my head bitten off *
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Post by Philippa on Jul 9, 2014 21:56:29 GMT
If that's aimed at me then wind your neck in. I wasn't in the class, wasn't even there today. Just making an observation.
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Post by Losing battle on Jul 9, 2014 21:58:00 GMT
Very true. If people can't cope with controversial judging, showing isn't the game for them. I moan about judges, but in the end, what can you do? You won't get your money back, so just make a note and don't go under them again. What really gets me is when some top people think they are obliged to get placed, and they really throw their toys out the pram when they aren't placed. * runs off before I get my head bitten off * I totally agree. Its just one of them things. Just annoys me how they just moan and have a tantrum about not being placed. There just showing themselves up instead of just taking note that that certain judge didnt really like their pony / horse
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Post by Losing battle on Jul 9, 2014 21:59:07 GMT
If that's aimed at me then wind your neck in. I wasn't in the class, wasn't even there today. Just making an observation. Its not at you or about anybody who has posted on this site
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Post by Philippa on Jul 9, 2014 22:01:19 GMT
If that's aimed at me then wind your neck in. I wasn't in the class, wasn't even there today. Just making an observation. Its not at you or about anybody who has posted on this site Thanks for clearing that up and I apologise if I was a little quick off the mark but we were supposed to be there with the LR pony but she's gone chronically lame so I'm a bit prickly.
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Post by losing battle on Jul 9, 2014 22:03:43 GMT
Its not at you or about anybody who has posted on this site Thanks for clearing that up and I apologise if I was a little quick off the mark but we were supposed to be there with the LR pony but she's gone chronically lame so I'm a bit prickly. Thats ok, sorry to hear about your pony being lame, hope she gets better soon
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Post by fanfarefan on Jul 9, 2014 22:06:04 GMT
personal acheivement everytime , as life deals you the most god almighty dough hands you realise that showing is only a game , it might be your living , your hobby your be all and end all , but theres worse things happening in the world to worry about whether you get a red ribbon ,its not life threatening or terminal !!!!! just not what you want !!!! tough ,,,deal with it , and think of those who have more to loose than a piece of ribbon
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Post by Philippa on Jul 9, 2014 22:06:25 GMT
Thanks for clearing that up and I apologise if I was a little quick off the mark but we were supposed to be there with the LR pony but she's gone chronically lame so I'm a bit prickly. Thats ok, sorry to hear about your pony being lame, hope she gets better soon Thanks. I hope so too. I'd be happy to go tomorrow and lose if it meant the pony was sound. I think it's very rare that judges use the full scale of marks available which is why it is probably so shocking.
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Post by hannahj on Jul 9, 2014 22:26:11 GMT
I think there were quite a few people there today, who felt very disappointed that their shows weren't even watched... If they were lucky the judge was catching the end of the gallop. I watched the judge wander off behind the line up at one point when shows were going on. I think people are just a bit disappointed to have spent all that money... To not even be watched? This is not sour grapes at all. Conf marks looked pretty much spot on... But the ride marks and judging (or lack of it!) were quite frankly... Shocking.
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realistic but shocked
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Post by realistic but shocked on Jul 9, 2014 22:49:32 GMT
The ride judging at GYS today was an absolute joke mainly the judges fault as she was not watching the shows in some classes at all and I have video evidence of ponies who stopped in their shows napped and were given the highest or second highest ride marks but as Mrs Claxton was either talking or wandering into the line to look at another pony( fells and dales and c classes) she did not see or chose not to see what happened. I also felt that GYS was at fault for rushing through the classes and what the show need to remember is that the revenue generated from these classes is enormous far higher than any other section if you look at the entries and what with ponies being sent away long before the last one had finished their show and also stewards who when it was pointed out to them that she was not watching were quite rude. I know judges give up their time but we the competitors also devote a great deal of time and money to the sport and expect a fair deal. I for one and I know others will be writing to GYS to make a formal complaint and this is not sour grapes as but sheer frustration with what I consider some of the worst judging I have ever seen.
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Post by hannahj on Jul 9, 2014 22:52:29 GMT
VERY well said!!!
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moaner or fair comment
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Post by moaner or fair comment on Jul 10, 2014 8:05:00 GMT
Interested to see this thread - was not at GYS but sounds as if there is ANOTHER case of disappointing judging. This year I have been disappointed/frustrated more than ever at judges who do not watch shows/set a set show then ignore it/have a hidden agenda in terms of their marks. We all know this goes on and we all moan outside the ring and I have been surprised that several of these shows have had no comment on HG. Several years ago there would be lengthy post mortems re judging - whilst I am not an advocate of the judge bashing or competitor bashing I think we have gone to the opposite extreme - no one states an opinion as you are immediately labelled a 'sore loser'. A No win situation. Of course judges all have different opinions and you have to accept that but blatant mark fixing & disregard for the mark system and competitors should not go unchallenged. I just hope that HOYS/Grandstand media do take notice. Sometimes I think an independent observer would be useful. After a high profile show several years ago when a judge was rude and ignored shows, action was taken from complaints so perhaps we should be more openly vocal but I have posted as a guest as I don't trust some people not to use what are my personal views against me.
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Post by SashaM on Jul 10, 2014 8:48:43 GMT
This also happened to me at a big county show this year. Several highly placed animals made significant errors in their shows but the judge was too busy chatting to the next competitor waiting to start their show and hardly watched any pony doing its show at all! Frustrating to spend all that money and take a precious day of holiday from work for the judges to choose the animals they liked the look of, regardless of performance. Do the societies have schemes for monitoring the performance of judges to make sure they are still competent to judge?
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Post by melons on Jul 10, 2014 9:12:08 GMT
My daughter got the second highest ride in the fells and dales yesterday. Ended up seventh She was made up. We both were and then you read this and it knocks you back .... She's only 16 so I hope she doesn't read it .
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Post by Kerbeck on Jul 10, 2014 9:40:35 GMT
Melons, I love Ben and he did in my opinion one of the most polished shows (equal to the winner I think) Georgia should not be disheartened at all, but I do feel that the competitors were rushed and she can't possibly have seen all the ponies do their full shows. I actually think the ponies in that class in the top 10 all deserved their place and were all great ambassadors of their breeds. But if I had paid £55 to enter I would have been disappointed to not have had the judges full attention for the 2 minutes it takes to do a show! Obviously not sour grapes as my pony is at home lame unfortunately.
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r.e.d
Junior Member
Posts: 180
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Post by r.e.d on Jul 10, 2014 10:08:46 GMT
I watched part of the m & m section yesterday and was a little surprised to see that some horses hadn't even finished or started their extension when the next was setting off for their show. At best it was rushed and unfair on the competitors who weren't being judged fairly when the judge was hurrying trying to watch two at the same time and give marks in between! At worst it was dangerous when one competitor was finishing their gallop, what if there had been a collision? I know they have a lot to get through but when you pay 70 pounds you expect to be looked at and have your full two minutes. I font think the judge will have been entirely at fault because the show will have been pushing to run on time.
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Post by marymarynli on Jul 10, 2014 10:42:50 GMT
Re the judging at GYS and also similar complaints re Ncpa Staffs last Saturday - People need to write to Grandstand Media with their concerns over any judges and also if they where unhappy with timings etc at GYS - it is something they are looking at. On a personal level I have a well known pony who has previously won RIHS etc and been placed at hoys he had fallen out of work had a very bad time on a well known pro yard and I bought him for what is no money really last year at a sale it has taken 12 months to get him fit and muscled up again along with extensive physio and work by my farrier I had a lot of negative comments regarding him last year inc 'what have you bought that thing for' you certainly wouldnt have recognised him for the pony he used to be. Am pleased to say he has been placed in 3 out of his 4 qualifiers this year. I am going to all the qualifiers I can go too around a demanding job and we are thrilled with him . If he doesnt qualify it no big deal he is well and happy, he is an angel at the shows and a total delight to have , I certainly could not have afforded a pony of his calibre normally and I am loving having a top pony again. The highlight this season has been peoples reaction to how he is looking when they see him at shows ..i.e that he is back to his former self that means more than anything as I have done all the work on him myself , for total strangers to approach us and tell us how pleased they are to see him looking like he does means much more than any rosette or placing in a Hoys qualifier tbh. It is horrendously expensive but I think competing at a high level with horses in any discipline is costly I would love to BE but couldnt afford it - if we think HOYS quals expensive then try BE The big cost for us is diesel as we are 2 hrs from the nearest qualifier. Showing is subjective and it is a persons opinion at the end of the day - some of these judges have never even ridden and i do not think they should be judging ride as a result. Some Judges most definately have a hidden agenda and no point denying favours dont go on - they do its always been the same and will never change there will always be a certain element that look after their friends and have to accept that. I have certain judges I know not to waste my money taking the pony in front of they either do favours or simply dont like my pony I did not enter GYS and waste a precious days holiday as was told not to bother with the ride judge so saved £300 in fuel alone and stayed away. Likewise NPS judges not been good for pony previously so we are not going its 8hr round trip to Malvern for us so whats the point as we would be on a loser before entering the ring. We are off to Olney next weekend and am most excited by news of the party on the Saturday Night and a chocolate fountain!We are having a lovely summer and intend to enjoy every second of it we are all lucky to be able to even have our ponies which I think gets forgotten sometimes mainly due to the costs involved.
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Post by soxsina on Jul 10, 2014 11:01:57 GMT
I am in several minds over this. I get frustrated when you spend your money and feel the judging is not up to standard but on the other hand, you accept with showing that it is one person's opinion who you may not always agree with. I also event at grassroots level which is expensive but I feel is great value for money. On completing the dressage test, I can usually predict to within a few marks what I will get for my score - this is the result of consistent judging. Should the show become more like a dressage test? Could we look at how dressage judges are trained and if showing judges could follow these guidelines in terms of the way of going mark. Also, I felt the D class was huge at GYS, it was such a hot day and these ponies had to stand in the ring for quite a while having warmed up and then done a go round and show with no water. Did the size of the class affect the quality of judging? Should we again consider following eventing's example and ballot these classes so you cannot go above a safety limit. Or possibly consider a qualification to compete in HOYS qualifier classes - so many Open wins say?
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Post by Horrified on Jul 10, 2014 11:13:29 GMT
I was at GYS yesterday to watch the M&M HOYS classes and was completely shocked at the judging by the ride judge, it was appalling! This is not sour grapes either as I was not competing, and I'm glad I wasn't as it was a joke! If I had entered and paid the extortionate entry fee I'd have been very cheesed off to say the least!
The steward was partly to blame as he was sending ponies out to do their shows half way through the previous ponies show, which was ridiculous and dangerous at times. I understand that they have a timetable to stick to but this was obviously unrealistic and unfair to those competing, these classes are the most well supported and they should be given enough time to be completed properly.
I think the judge had come for a free day out, and to be honest I wouldn't have been surprised if she had got a picnic out in the ring! She certainly wasn't paying any attention to the ponies doing their shows and was either chatting to a steward or staring into space/at the floor.
This did result in a lot of ponies being highly placed that normally wouldn't have been as the judge had missed them napping/bucking or wrong legging. This judge was entrusted with deciding which ponies go to HOYS?! It's laughable. I really feel for the people that had put in all the time and effort with their ponies and spent a fortune to go to the show to not even be judged correctly, it's not fair.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2014 12:14:28 GMT
Surely if timing was an issue for the show - they should restrict numbers that can enter the class - therefore every show can be watched! Not heard good things about Yorkshire this year - though I wasn't there so cannot comment. Understandably, these shows run to a tight schedule, but surely limiting each class to say the first 25/30 entries would make life easier for all concerned. Then perhaps the judge may get the opportunity to watch each inidividual show and give it the attention it deserves!
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Post by honeypot on Jul 10, 2014 12:25:00 GMT
I think organisers have trouble working out how many are going to turn up. At county shows you sometimes look at the catalogue and only a third of the entries are in the ring.
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joey78
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Post by joey78 on Jul 10, 2014 12:38:00 GMT
I don't think the size of the M&M classes can come as a surprise to the organizers, these classes are always well supported at any show, and at a show that is prestigious in it's own right such at GYS then the numbers are always going to be high. The morning's classes in the morning were judged in much too short a time. The stewards were clearly under immense pressure to get the classes done to a set time & it was an impossible task to do this without it affecting the quality of the process. I personally felt that the conf judge on the day was also getting frustrated with it, several times I saw her turn to the steward to give a mark but the steward was too busy queuing up the next 2 ponies to come out of line!!! However despite the challenging conditions this judge maintained a professional focus and I think gave each pony a fair consideration. The ride judge however did manage to do this & there was an obvious lack of concentration displayed. I have been in the situation at many BSPS champs where due to timetabling issues ponies have been sent out to do shows in quick succession, and I have seen many panel judges manage to deal with this situation very well, by being professional & focused, and positing themselves in the ring in such a position that they could turn from one pony to another, although yes there is a small chance they would miss a small error, they always seemed to watch the critical points, canter transitions, extensions,halts etc. and spot the good shows from the bad shows! It's a shame that the judge appointed yesterday clearly was either not capable or not interested enough to do the same, I'm not saying that all the marks were wrong, but some certainly did not seem to apply to the shows in question. I will be making my complaints to both GYS and HOYS, this is not sour grapes by any means, my pony has already qualified, we went yesterday for a bit of fun, but the organisation of the show and the judging process meant it really wasn't much fun....And as the "customer" I think we need to start being heard.
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Post by Kerbeck on Jul 10, 2014 13:16:23 GMT
I have just read that one rider was told to 'shut up' by the steward when she mentioned that the judge should perhaps be watching the pony doing it's show, another rider was told to 'get off and steward' when she complained! Also one competitor was approached by the judge whilst in line as she hadn't recorded a ride mark for it, therefore missing the pony that was out doing it's show whilst all this was going on.
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Post by bigmama on Jul 10, 2014 14:11:22 GMT
I have just read that one rider was told to 'shut up' by the steward when she mentioned that the judge should perhaps be watching the pony doing it's show, another rider was told to 'get off and steward' when she complained! Also one competitor was approached by the judge whilst in line as she hadn't recorded a ride mark for it, therefore missing the pony that was out doing it's show whilst all this was going on. Our pony was the one the judge hadn't recorded a ride mark for and as she sorted it out herself looking for our number in the line up, another competitor was out doing their show ... we have already qualified for Hoys this year and GYS was a fun day out as my daughter had already paid £60 to enter and altho we were placed yesterday, the main positives about GYS yesterday were that our pony performed to his usual high standard and we learned not to go under that ride judge again
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Post by viking on Jul 10, 2014 16:21:14 GMT
Salient point bigmama - "we learned not to go under this judge again'. Well said.
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Post by rise and shine on Jul 10, 2014 23:26:19 GMT
Perhaps the societies should change their judges, I look at schedules and its the same faces year after year,fresh faces, fresh outlook!!
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Post by welshiegirl on Jul 11, 2014 7:34:02 GMT
I don't see how it's sour grapes? We didn't get there as my mum had an accident whilst getting ready to bring the pony. I won't be competing at GYS next year unless it's a specific two judges who I know are fair and like Bow (Whatever, no point paying tons of money to go under judges that doesn't like your pony before someone has a go!) It's cost us almost £200 to go, an extortiante price that we pay because we want that chance, however if you go to a show, HOYS qualifier or not, GYS or not, you expect the judge to have the decency to at least watch your show. Many people traveled far up and down the country to get there, payed good money, slogged it out in the heat for there pony to go well and not get a decent mark, and a pony make a mistake and earn a place. Yes, judging and stewarding is hard been stood up on your feet all day, but pulled or not, a pony can be stood bottom of the line up, and win because its show and conf are better than those pulled top.
Last year the C that qualified wasn't pulled in and stood middle of the line up. I've ridden in 2 HOYS quals this year, my pony has competed in several more, but 1/2 for me have been unfairly judged, not sour grapes, however at 1 a pony won that made mistakes in its show, maybe deserved to be in top 10 but not winning! In the other 1st deserved it, but in other classes there were certainly some dodging placings. It isn't sour grapes, but when we've traveled and paid good money to enter I'd like my pony to be fairly judged and given the marks she deserves. I didn't compete at GYS, wasn't 2nd or anything in the two I rode at, so it's not because I was close to qualifying, I'm just sick of going to shows and not been fairly judged- and IMO this is the view of most people! (I'm not saying all shows are like this- I've seen many Quals this year when the winners have deserved it! NPS Area 5, Lincolnshire etc!)
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Post by Admirable on Jul 11, 2014 9:05:24 GMT
That is a really admirable attitude bigmama. If you hadn't already qualified, you may have been more annoyed though as I know I would.
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