sarahp
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Post by sarahp on Jul 22, 2014 7:34:49 GMT
A well considered answer catkin! I suppose my next question is should it be like that if it is to the long term detriment of both ponies' schooling and childrens' riding, at which point the question should be for the societies rather than individuals working within their rules.
I suppose it's partly that I come from a different era when it was all about children (and adults) learning to ride correctly, likewise schooling of ponies and horses, with the ultimate aim of actually DOING something rather than only showing, which is what seems to happen today.
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Post by catkin on Jul 22, 2014 17:46:24 GMT
Another challenging point SarahP. I guess the way I work around this is that a. ponies and riders need to do more than showing and b. this very much depends on the age of the child. A tiny tot just of the lead doing a good show is a huge success, I'd want more from an older child - both in and out of the ring. I also think we need to remember we are judging ponies not children. And, I do believe, the end objective for different types of ponies, varies. To get a FR to go in a consistent way round the ring kindly, albeit sometimes in a bit of a fixed outline, is one ambition. Ponies for older children should be able to do a lot more that will require different schooling and more 'correct' riding.
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sarahp
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Post by sarahp on Jul 24, 2014 7:54:35 GMT
Catkin, I know that you and yours do far more than just show! As did we, but that is some time ago now. Daughter was far too busy doing other fun stuff to do much showing, it just wasn't really on the agenda, she'd far rather be doing bucket elmination with a friend down the middle of the barn, playing cowboys and indians or going to PC in between her riding lessons.
As for ponies - what happens to your FR in a fixed outline when a child tries to do something different with it that requires it to be correctly schooled and finds that they haven't much in the way of brakes because it ducks behind the bit instead of being on it? And what happens to the riding education then of the child on top? We expected - and I still do in the As that are broken for me - a ridden pony, however small, to be able to be ridden in the same way as any other equine.
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Post by catkin on Jul 30, 2014 20:20:32 GMT
Oh yes, totally agree with that SarahP. Maybe my idea of fixed is less fixed than it seems! All those I have probably had to fix/set up a bit for the tiny people (if that makes sense) were perfectly capable of switching out of that mode and into WHP mode, for example. I am probably not explaining myself well! Our little grey Polaris mare was a prime example.
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Post by sparkysunny on Jul 30, 2014 20:58:38 GMT
We tried our little Section B FR pony in a Wilkie to help my daughters when they were younger, but he went really badly in it so we put him back in his loose ring and he has been a happy boy ever since. If a pony weighing over a quarter of a ton wants to take the mick out of its little jockey it will, regardless of the bit in its mouth. The only thing a 'harsher' bit will do is harden the pony's mouth and make it more difficult in the long term, in my humble opinion.
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Post by m1hht on Aug 11, 2014 22:11:16 GMT
Sometimes just because you can see the wilkie on the outside, it doesn't always show what is between the rings. I do use them in the ring as my daughter is only 5 and one of my ponies can be a little keen sometimes but my bits are either happy mouth or lozenge not 2 pieces of twisted metal or very narrow straight metal !!!!
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sarahp
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Post by sarahp on Aug 12, 2014 6:58:05 GMT
Very good point, but could apply to any style of side pieces. The wilkie will still give poll pressure whatever the mouthpiece though.
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Post by m1hht on Aug 12, 2014 9:16:28 GMT
I am aware of that, but my reason for use is just as a slight additional aid to help a 5yr old
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sarahp
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Post by sarahp on Aug 12, 2014 18:08:49 GMT
I was only commenting on the bit, nothing about your use of it for your daughter.
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Post by Philippa on Aug 12, 2014 18:52:06 GMT
I am aware of that, but my reason for use is just as a slight additional aid to help a 5yr old Which is my argument on the subject too and the same reason I use one on ours.
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Post by m1hht on Aug 12, 2014 21:13:02 GMT
I was only commenting on the bit, nothing about your use of it for your daughter. I didn't think you were, but you are right in what you say though and I'm not a massive fan of them and hate seeing nearly every pony in one. But for me as a temporary measure it serves a purpose
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sarahp
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Post by sarahp on Aug 13, 2014 7:54:39 GMT
Really just trying to make the general point that there are two separate parts to any bit that need to be considered separately - the sidepieces and the mouthpiece. As a non-wilkie example, we used waterford mouthpieces with two of my daughter's horses on occasions - one was a snaffle and the other a gag, very different.
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Post by truthseaker on Aug 13, 2014 13:58:28 GMT
I think brindlerainbow has a point about feeding and management above. I do wonder sometimes if it's all about children learning to ride or just wanting ponies to get their various tickets? Or maybe parents wanting their children to get their various tickets ? This is so true, would half those kids given any choice sit hours in a show class waiting for a ticket or prefer to running round the fields chasing their own rainbows !
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Post by nici on Aug 14, 2014 10:23:24 GMT
Or maybe parents wanting their children to get their various tickets ? This is so true, would half those kids given any choice sit hours in a show class waiting for a ticket or prefer to running round the fields chasing their own rainbows ! Some of my friends' kids really do enjoy showing and don't mind sitting for hours in a class of 40! It isn't always just the parents! My own daughter gets bored if the class has more than half a dozen, and would very much prefer to be jumping, on a beach ride or fun ride, or once the season starts - hunting. (Oh and in the context of this thread, I should state that she does all the above on her wonderful Welsh C, in a loose ring double jointed Happy Mouth snaffle, and no gadgets!) Each to their own
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Post by truthseaker on Aug 22, 2014 19:53:27 GMT
Some kids do enjoy it, I have one the same, but honestly after working on lots of yards , some kids have to be bribed with all sorts to do things they don't want to so their parents can stand along side the show ring telling everyone how wonderful they are, if I had to do that I would let my kid chase her own rainbows I'm afraid
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