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Post by Threadbear on Jul 16, 2014 19:19:28 GMT
Would it be a good idea if HOYS brought in a rule so that a judge can't judge qualifiers they compete in? Is this feasible?
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New rule?
Jul 16, 2014 20:05:45 GMT
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Post by bubbles1822 on Jul 16, 2014 20:05:45 GMT
You'd would loose knowledge maybe of the breed types characteristics of the pony the judge is most interested in.... It would be beneficial in some ways though...
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mopsy
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Post by mopsy on Jul 16, 2014 20:09:28 GMT
I and a few of my showing friends have also mentioned this, this season. I think it would help fairer competition but we would need more people to step up to the plate and get on the panels with enough knowledge and experience to back them up. As ever there is arguments for and against!
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Post by jimjim on Jul 16, 2014 21:05:02 GMT
When I judged Hoys a few years ago I wasn't able to compete in any Hoys qualifiers for the class I judged. I thought it was still the same.
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fernwhitecharity
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Post by fernwhitecharity on Jul 16, 2014 21:19:41 GMT
That's for judging at HOYS not just the qualifiers. So one week Mr X will qualify Mr Y and the following week Mr Y is judging and low and behold Mr X will qualify!!
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Post by clifton on Jul 16, 2014 21:43:37 GMT
I only complete very local level but I have a lot of home produced friends who do compete at better shows and this is where showing at a higher level sucks, as judges who judge and then want to qualify for same class obviously have a conflict of interest. I also think you should qualify as a combination and if any problems with either horse or rider then it is tough luck for that year. I think this would give home produced combinations a better chance to qualify for the top shows and producers would not be able to qualify horses for other people as I understand this is done, I am sure somebody will tell me if I have understood it wrong.
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Post by clobo121082 on Jul 17, 2014 8:44:20 GMT
Some of the best judges I have been under are people who compete as they understand how ponies/horses should go. I am sorry but the shocking judging I have seen this year (and their has been a fair amount) has come from judges who certainly don't compete - have no idea of the rules or marking system or how to use it. I think the m&m 'facey' issue comes far more from breeders and who is friends with who, who uses who's stock etc rather than the people that compete. You don't need to compete to be facey!
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Post by bubbles1822 on Jul 17, 2014 9:25:12 GMT
i feel that whilst showing has become facey, i only now do the qualifiers at the shows i enjoy, for example Lincoln, Derbyshire etc.. i do enjoy riding in the big classes and if i manage to get placed its a bonus although some judging has been shocking this year. Lincoln and NCPA Stafford to name 2 shows i couldn't really justify results in!
I do feel that until societies are willing to encourage new faces into judging and especially the qualifiers the same ponies ill keep returning to hoys. Surely it is their purpose to encourage the next generation to become involved, i know financially it isn't beneficial to judge but in a few year i will be looking to join panels and get involved!!
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Lots
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Post by Lots on Jul 17, 2014 11:30:33 GMT
in a perfect world this would be a perfect idea but i think it is unfeasible
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Post by Guestless on Jul 17, 2014 12:11:38 GMT
I suppose it could be doable if the HOYS quals were split into two sections. For example, at RHS this year, the large breed sections had different judges to the small breeds (although NFs were with the smalls). So if you are a judge and you also compete on Highlands, you could still judge the small breeds and vice versa......although that would mean recruiting 4 judges for each qualifying show and could still be a logistical nightmare!
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Post by FaceOff on Jul 17, 2014 16:15:35 GMT
Some of the best judges I have been under are people who compete as they understand how ponies/horses should go. I am sorry but the shocking judging I have seen this year (and their has been a fair amount) has come from judges who certainly don't compete - have no idea of the rules or marking system or how to use it. I think the m&m 'facey' issue comes far more from breeders and who is friends with who, who uses who's stock etc rather than the people that compete. You don't need to compete to be facey! YES, YES and YES again! Well said and so true.
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fernwhitecharity
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Post by fernwhitecharity on Jul 17, 2014 17:44:50 GMT
Also witnessed it on the other end of the scale... Horse A has qualified for HOYS with rider A. Rider A is judging a qualifier and puts a horse (horse B) that shouldn't have won up because horse A's will beat horse B at HOYS. But we pay our entry fee, we go showing and we take our chances. We like to think the we are not disputing integrity of judges but ultimately they make it quite clear themselves.
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Post by mr smiley on Jul 17, 2014 18:54:00 GMT
Well perhaps the societies should use all their panel judges in rotation instead of the same judges year after year but just in different rings
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New rule?
Jul 17, 2014 19:27:41 GMT
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Post by Hopefull on Jul 17, 2014 19:27:41 GMT
Every time we have had a decent honest judge they have never been invited to judge again??
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Post by uptoyou on Jul 18, 2014 14:05:54 GMT
Yer, if this is happening good animals will miss qualifying who should be there or is that the idea
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New rule?
Jul 18, 2014 14:18:03 GMT
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Post by louisegelly on Jul 18, 2014 14:18:03 GMT
I fully agree with this!
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Post by the showing register on Jul 18, 2014 16:31:02 GMT
Interesting ideas it is really all about ethics and if we want to preserve showing and it go forward these things need to be discussed. I am only manning the pumps whilst everyone is at the TSR show but I think it has merit.
Wendy
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fernwhitecharity
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Post by fernwhitecharity on Jul 18, 2014 21:34:38 GMT
TSR you are really good at listening to competitors comments and think you could be the society to lead the way on this one ? all the best for this weekend!
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Post by Mr smiley on Jul 18, 2014 23:19:09 GMT
Interesting ideas it is really all about ethics and if we want to preserve showing and it go forward these things need to be discussed. I am only manning the pumps whilst everyone is at the TSR show but I think it has merit. Wendy At last, some one is listening..,.thank you
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Post by mf on Jul 19, 2014 20:23:42 GMT
One solution would be if you are judging hoys qualifiers then you cannot compete in those classes that season. I.e if judging by bsha qualifiers you cannot do hoys hack cob or riding horse classes or if doing m/ms then no m/ms but you could still do horse classes for example. This would reduce some (not all) of the conflict of interest and certainly the putting through of an inferior animal so it is no contest at the final. For most of the classes this would mean losing 20-30 judges off the panel for 12 months only. If you wanted to compete still then decline judging hoys qualifiers. There would still be plenty of others and I think many would step down from competing in one section or another just for 12 months especially if they are producing and there fore have an assortment of animals to show
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Post by dizzydora on Jul 19, 2014 21:33:44 GMT
For me the Arab horse society have it right for the rules for the inhand section. The judge has to decide whether to show or judge that season at the 'C' or above shows as these are the shows that hold the big qualifiers.
For some reason they don't have the same rule on the ridden side for hoys qualifiers which is a shame.
I do think a rule should be introduced whereby a judge should be made to choose whether to judge in hoys/rihs/olympia qualifiers or compete in them that season as I think it will help to reduce the 'i'll scratch your back if you scratch mine' culture.
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Post by Threadbear on Jul 28, 2014 6:35:02 GMT
Thanks everyone. Let's hope the TSR will look at this and all the HOYS societies will take our views into consideration. We have asked. This idea looks good.
"One solution would be if you are judging hoys qualifiers then you cannot compete in those classes that season. I.e if judging by bsha qualifiers you cannot do hoys hack cob or riding horse classes or if doing m/ms then no m/ms but you could still do horse classes for example. This would reduce some (not all) of the conflict of interest and certainly the putting through of an inferior animal so it is no contest at the final. For most of the classes this would mean losing 20-30 judges off the panel for 12 months only. If you wanted to compete still then decline judging hoys qualifiers. There would still be plenty of others and I think many would step down from competing in one section or another just for 12 months especially if they are producing and there fore have an assortment of animals to show"
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New rule?
Aug 1, 2014 23:01:06 GMT
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Post by misterben on Aug 1, 2014 23:01:06 GMT
Some of the best judges I have been under are people who compete as they understand how ponies/horses should go. I am sorry but the shocking judging I have seen this year (and their has been a fair amount) has come from judges who certainly don't compete - have no idea of the rules or marking system or how to use it. I think the m&m 'facey' issue comes far more from breeders and who is friends with who, who uses who's stock etc rather than the people that compete. You don't need to compete to be facey!
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New rule?
Aug 1, 2014 23:01:29 GMT
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Post by misterben on Aug 1, 2014 23:01:29 GMT
Absolutely spot on Chloe!!!
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