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Post by sjw87 on Jul 23, 2014 14:03:02 GMT
There are regularly threads on here regarding bitting and how in dressage th choice of bits is restricted but I was pondering nosebands the other day.
The vast majority of show horses are ridden in a cavesson noseband whereas dressage horses are pretty much always in flash nosebands (often a crank too on the cavesson part) if they are in a snaffle and only move to a cavesson once going into a double.
Are dressage riders using flashes in the same way as show riders use wilkies/strong bits as a short cut to avoid correct schooling? I hate the fashion of grackles in workers and the eventing dressage phase. A cavesson done up too tight means that the jaw can't possibly relax properly either. Why have people moved away from the cavesson or drop noseband?
I wasn't going to post this as it was a mere pondering but then I had the misfortune of witnessing unaffiliated showjumping the other day which sadly has nothing in the way of tack restrictions - child's ponies with pelhams with one rein on the curb, doubles with a grackle, draw reins to work in over fences, everything with a martingale. It was so refreshing to see the odd horse in a snaffle and cavesson or snaffle and drop.
What is happening to horsemanship and schooling??
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kaya
Junior Member
Posts: 121
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Post by kaya on Jul 23, 2014 14:43:12 GMT
It has always been a bugbear of mine that most bridles come with a flash as standard. Many people now seem to think that wearing one is the norm, with the cavesson being the exception.
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Post by Kerbeck on Jul 24, 2014 8:52:02 GMT
I agree, I do quite a lot of dressage with my fells and an instructor I used for a while told me to put one of mine in a flash, he has a lovely soft mouth so I questioned why, he said because he mouths the bit a lot, he just likes to have a chew for a bit that's all, and I know he wouldn't like the action of a flash. My other pony was in a flash permanently with his previous owners, I am now trying to undo the damage as he is so tense in his way of going. The only thing I would use is a well fitted drop noseband if it was needed.
At my last dressage test (unaffiliated novice class) there were 17 forward and there was only me and 1 other pony (a section b ridden by a young rider)that were not in a flash!
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smalley
Full Member
Horses lend us the wings we lack
Posts: 419
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Post by smalley on Jul 24, 2014 13:05:53 GMT
I ride my young horse in a flash but only a very loose one, because she has a tendency to cross her jaw and evade the contact and this helps stop her, and she's getting better now. However when we first go her as a 5 year old we never put it on, teaching her to go forward into a softer contact. For jumping I tighten up the flash a hole because she can get strong, and when you're jumping a tricky newcomers course on a keen but inexperienced 17.2hh 6 year old you want to have that extra control to give her a nice ride round. We would never put a flash on a horse or pony unless they needed it - my old pony used to go much better in a flash and the fell pony I do dressage on has never had a flash, even though he can open his mouth at times, we just kept schooling him and improved his way of going so his mouth no longer opens.
I think people in dressage use these nosebands because they want 'all the gear' but so many dressage bridles come with a crank and a flash and people don't understand how they work, or they just leave them on to look the part.
I hate watching unaffiliated showjumping because of the tack, the worst thing is seeing ponies in huge bits, grakles, tight martingales and the riders yanking on their mouths or booting them with spurs because they can't go forward. If they spent time schooling they would be able to jump much higher and it's really not needed. I jump my other mare who is built like a tank in a cavesson and loose ring snaffle with no martingale. When we got her we were told she could wear a gag bit for jumping as she can be strong, and she was always in a flash. After 3 years of proper schooling and getting to know each other we can win a jump off because I'm perfectly in control and not a strong bit or noseband in sight!
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cedar
Junior Member
Posts: 135
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Post by cedar on Jul 24, 2014 20:06:34 GMT
I bought a sabre bridle for my highland which came with a crank nose band. So used it but never over tight with his normal loose ring snaffle. He started to get funny on the contact and couldn't understand why. After reading a write up in horse and hound about nose bands and the different pressure a crank puts on the nose I changed to a normal cavasson and pony was back to his normal self. I do agree that people just use what comes with the tack they buy. And I'm a prime example on the nose band! They Don't always understand how it works.
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Post by ajslola on Jul 25, 2014 10:27:06 GMT
I Know, my mums always telling me to use a martingale and put a grackle on my horsey but she doesn't need it! And the annoying thing is my mum doesn't even know what a grackle does! She's just ridden in a simple cavesson and loose ring snaffle for everything and if i can't control her then i need to improve my riding
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kirky
Full Member
Posts: 238
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Post by kirky on Aug 5, 2014 14:47:40 GMT
I have been told so often by trainers and (knowledgeable folk) to fasten the noseband and flash really tight however as said above my boy is far happier with it looser and is so much more relaxed. The worrying part though for me was that they told me if I didn't have them tight I wouldn't stand a chance if he bolted, bit of the old scare mongering going on.
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Post by farrellperdi on Aug 6, 2014 23:00:14 GMT
I use a crank noseband on all my horses, showjumping & Dressage. I have no need to crank them & dont, but they are far more padded and comfortable. They all wear anatomical headpieces & are all half rolled to avoid rubbing.
If you really think a noseband makes that much difference to a horse's schooling, spend some time watching a true proffesional!!... its a certain fact, I wish a crank got my Ex Racer to Elem!!
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Post by conniegirl on Aug 7, 2014 8:05:18 GMT
I have been told so often by trainers and (knowledgeable folk) to fasten the noseband and flash really tight however as said above my boy is far happier with it looser and is so much more relaxed. The worrying part though for me was that they told me if I didn't have them tight I wouldn't stand a chance if he bolted, bit of the old scare mongering going on. If your horse truely bolted a flash wouldnt make the slightlest bit of difference, tight or not! My last horse was a bolter and if running head first into a wall (fracturing his skull in the process) didnt stop him then a flash certainly wasnt going to!
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sarahp
Happy to help
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Post by sarahp on Aug 7, 2014 9:37:10 GMT
Correctly the jaw should be relaxed - try clenching your own teeth tightly together as the horse's would be in a tight flash and see what happens to the jaw muscles. Tight and tense.
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Post by flo1 on Aug 7, 2014 13:42:18 GMT
I personally think that some nosebands cause more problems and discomfort to the horse than some of the bits that are used. Crank, flash and grackle nosebands for instance need to be very tight for their action to actually come into play (sarahp above has described what happens then ), if they are not tight then they don't perform as they are designed to. Can you imagine the pressure needed to prevent a horse from opening it's mouth? Horses open their mouths for a variety of reasons, one of these reasons is to try and avoid pain - to deny a horse the chance to relieve such pain by using a tight noseband is IMO downright cruel.
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Post by Guestless on Aug 7, 2014 16:09:21 GMT
Horses open their mouths for a variety of reasons, one of these reasons is to try and avoid pain - to deny a horse the chance to relieve such pain by using a tight noseband is IMO downright cruel. I agree with this, but what if the cause of pain has been removed and your pony doesn't take that on board lol? I have a mare who was left with a bit of wolf tooth in situ and it grew back in the shape of a hook. She had her teeth done every 6 months for nearly 3 years and none of the vets mentioned it (despite me constantly saying she tilted her head to the left) until a new vet came into the practice. She had the tooth extracted (free of charge which is the least they could do considering their cock up!) but I am struggling to get her to accept the pain has gone. She is going much more consistently but has this bad habit of holding the bit in her mouth as if to stop it going behind the hooked tooth (which must have been excruciating for her, poor girl) I don't use flashes very often but I am toying with trying one to close her mouth to see if that lets the penny drop for her. I'm currently going through a range of bits with the Bit Bank and she is MUCH lighter in the current bit but her mouth is still gaping. ETA - moral of the story is I will NEVER use a vet to do my ponies teeth again. Now back to using an EDT and my ponies are all much happier in their mouths since the change.
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kirky
Full Member
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Post by kirky on Aug 7, 2014 17:09:50 GMT
I had exactly the same problem six years ago. My boy had a wolf tooth removed but unfortunately it broke off during the removal but the vet didn't mention anything. A few weeks later in the school he just went crackers, head in the air and bolted, which was not like him, when I got him in the stable I checked his mouth and to my horror I could see what looked like a tooth growing where the wolf tooth had been. After finally convincing the vet that something wasn't right he finally admitted that he had left the root in and it was now growing back down the gum and hence the pain he was in. I then had the same problem as yourself after the removal of the root and following recovery time, as far as he was concerned the pain was still there and he held the bit. After trying different bits I put him in a hackamore, only for a short time, but at least it gave him chance to realise he could be ridden without pain and when I reintroduced the bit he was fine. It seemed like he had a mental block and just needed something different to get over it. Hope this helps for you. I too stick with the EDT.
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Post by Guestless on Aug 7, 2014 22:40:44 GMT
Thanks kirky - that is definitely something worth considering over the winter with her.
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