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Post by whatsitworth on Oct 12, 2014 8:02:28 GMT
HOYS is the pinnacle of the showing calendar, showing being in the root of many an Olympic riders early years, so with respect to the discipline what is the worth in owning a horse based at a pro yard, never riding the horse or contributing in anyway to its production other than paying the bills then sitting on it for the class (not even warming it up) I find myself wondering how this makes such a farce of what should be a very well respected sphere.
I would like to point out that I am directing this at adult riders, not juniors, who do need plenty support. But adults who have ridden all their lives and have bought a horse especially to qualify and not sat on said animal until a few days before.
Win or lose I have no respect for such a rider, they are fooling only themselves.
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Post by bigmama on Oct 12, 2014 9:58:42 GMT
Cos that is how that person views things and can afford to live by her views .. humans are individuals .... not for me either but each to their own
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Post by That would be me on Oct 12, 2014 10:03:08 GMT
Don't assume they do nothing. I have mine produced but do ride at home and get stuck in with all the yard work as well. There are several well known riders who do the same but can't commit to time to do it all themselves for a range of reasons. If they are happy with this way of doing things then that is their choice.
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Post by whatsitworth on Oct 12, 2014 18:07:48 GMT
Don't assume they do nothing. I have mine produced but do ride at home and get stuck in with all the yard work as well. There are several well known riders who do the same but can't commit to time to do it all themselves for a range of reasons. If they are happy with this way of doing things then that is their choice. I realise that time is a big issue for people working fulltime, but in this case the rider is literally just sitting on at HOYs and not having ANY input at all from a producing point of view. I've had Youngstock at producers before but normally just a few months in a season and I do my fair share of producing and training of them, using producers for help when needed. I realise some people who may no longer ride or cant run them out so the option of being an owner is fab for the sport and good for producers. But in the case of just sitting on it for the final and leaving all the work to producing and qualifying to a pro to me kind of losses the point in the whole thing.
Could you imagine if the same thing happened in Dressage and showjumping - it would be carnage LOL!
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Post by jealousy must hurt on Oct 12, 2014 18:47:25 GMT
That is definitely me. i pay for my horses to be produced and sit on them at shows. I am just wondering why this concerns you at all really!! Any way hay the bloody hoe. Personally I feel Olympia is the pinnacle of showing.
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Post by Philippa on Oct 12, 2014 18:56:10 GMT
If your ultimate aim is to ride at HOYS and you can afford to just turn up on the day then so be it. Some people are just too busy to be able to put in the time and effort it takes to get to hoys. It won't appeal to everyone and a lot will frown upon it as you have but each to their own, I'd love to have mine produced from home!!!!!! Lol
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Post by whatsitworth on Oct 12, 2014 19:07:22 GMT
That is definitely me. i pay for my horses to be produced and sit on them at shows. I am just wondering why this concerns you at all really!! Any way hay the bloody hoe. Personally I feel Olympia is the pinnacle of showing. It concerns me as I feel it makes a mockery of showing, I know it is the animal being produced and therefore the rider is irrelevant. However ultimately if show producers & riders are to earn the respect of other disciplines then how is this achieved when those producers step aside for the final? the skill in the showring is in the producing, therefore the person producing it should be riding it, surely? just putting it out there, I like a good old debate LOL
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rose66
Junior Member
Posts: 69
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Post by rose66 on Oct 12, 2014 19:07:35 GMT
I personally don't get it either.....how do you feel a sense of achievent?.each to their own but not for me.
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Post by remianddodge15 on Oct 12, 2014 19:11:31 GMT
I've been told many times that if I put a producer on my cob he would easily go to HOYS, yet I've refused to do so. I may spend many years trying to qualify myself, and we may never make it, but if we do I want the satisfaction of knowing that I've done the hard work.
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Post by Toaster on Oct 12, 2014 19:17:28 GMT
I have to agree with the OP I'm afraid
Producers have their place and people that use them are lucky in many ways but SOME don't put in the work on their riding that they could (or at least it sure doesn't seem that way!) lots of pony club kicking/not coping with basic napping/not trotting up well in the conformation etc at HOYS from riders clearly out of their depth which is a great shame
I heard a dad boasting at a summer show that it was easier to pay £300 for a producer to ride their pony and secure a 'guarantee' of qualification at a particular show than spend the money on lessons for the child amd risk not qualifying.
Have to add though that some owners look so good when they ride it would be easy to imagine that they qualified the animal themselves so it's not all bad!
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Post by juicy lucy on Oct 12, 2014 19:33:54 GMT
Basically if the face fits. That's how it seems these days. Same old those that sponsor and etc. Also some of the horses are not up to scratch its just whose on their back. Too many won't knock them down shame.
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Post by Agreed on Oct 12, 2014 20:30:36 GMT
It's all about ££££££££. What about people buying hoys winners that have qualified for the last god knows how many years of producer then getting producer to qualify pony this year then just sits on to go in the Caldene rider is awful but surprise surprise end up being placed. Not sour grapes as I don't have pony in same class but if don't think they deserve the 'well dones' just because mummy and daddy have abit of money. That's my opinion. I would rather celebrate someone who has even got to hoys of their own back done it all themselves. It'll never change.....
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Post by m1hht on Oct 12, 2014 21:34:08 GMT
It's a free country, and if that's how people choose to spend their money then so be it. I don't have a problem with it and am home produced. Although I will be pleased as punch to beat them lol
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Post by grizzle on Oct 12, 2014 22:13:13 GMT
Hoys is not a home produced show. If owners employ the services of a producer or other help so what?
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sarahp
Happy to help
Posts: 9,510
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Post by sarahp on Oct 13, 2014 7:33:18 GMT
There are many and various back stories that could be applicable here. Owners too busy, too old or with other things to do with their lives besides showing to ride their animals themselves, studs wishing to show case what they breed, children who need more support than parents can give, geographical considerations......... It's not a one size fits all argument.
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Post by jelousy must hurt on Oct 13, 2014 9:31:04 GMT
I still don't see how me qualifying any of my horses is your business! I am aware of all the issues but may those who are moaning are ones who cant afford a producer. I used yo be home produced but was promoted do don't have the time. I just sit on him at championship shows and finals. I dont see why that should bother anyone. Jelousy is horrid now isnt it ladies and gents! !
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Post by truthseaker on Oct 13, 2014 10:44:28 GMT
It's all a load of twaddle sticks, , it happens at the top and the bottom of the scale, personal achievement factor has to be great for those who know they did it themselves, I personally think the producer route would not be for me, if I couldn't get there on my own I would not feel it was of any importance to me , the reward should be on the producer ,,,
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At least I can spell jealousy!
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Post by At least I can spell jealousy! on Oct 13, 2014 10:46:43 GMT
You must be proud ......I presume you couldn't win as a hp so you have to pay someone to do it for you? Work hard and long hours as we hp's will be busy enjoying our ponies..... after all that what its really about
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Post by jealousy must hurt on Oct 13, 2014 12:39:36 GMT
But what business is it of yours how my horses get to the top? I've been home produced and made it myself I really don't have any thing to prove. I can afford it and my time is precious with children and family so I just get someone else to kart the horses round. They have got there the "hard way". Im guessing the OP and others cant afford a producer so feel a grievance, HOYS is open to all and not restricted HARRY PATCH bless your nieve father, a decent horse is half the battle to take on the big boys.I have one for sale of you have the juice to pay for him? ?
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Post by jealousy must hurt on Oct 13, 2014 12:45:12 GMT
Re above what an amateur dig from an amateur person ? fitting to say the least! Oh yes and I am oh so proud of my boys?
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need re read and check spell
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Post by need re read and check spell on Oct 13, 2014 13:58:10 GMT
I only wrote what everyone but everyone is thinking !....to have someone warm your animal up for you is just unbelievable to say the least and for you to come on here and justify it....also let me put you right ..you cant try to put people down because you think your richer than them!
1. My daughters pony has just come back from being broken by one of the best trainers in the uk ...eh she did not do it for free!
2. He was very very expensive for a youngster......as money is no object !
3. If my daughter cannot qualify him for higher level including hoys I will employ help for her in the form of a trainer but only if she wants but def not someone to ride and qualify him for hoys...... and certainty not to warm him up for her
4. Am now signing off x
ps I think by signing on as a guest and moaning about me signing on as a guest moaning about you are one of the same ?
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Post by Philippa on Oct 13, 2014 18:44:14 GMT
To be honest it's not just showing, I've worked for top show jumpers and it was always me and the other grooms who worked the horses day in day out, exercised at shows and produced said horses at the ringside for jockey to get on and jump. So maybe that's why I don't see a problem with it, each to their own. There's no right or wrong to this.
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Post by comanchediva on Oct 13, 2014 20:32:28 GMT
Well after mucking 6 out in the driving wind and rain after 9 hours at work and an hour each way on the motorway I would have given anything for a producer to take the lot of em and I'd gladly not see them till the weekend lol
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Post by Philippa on Oct 13, 2014 20:37:35 GMT
Well after mucking 6 out in the driving wind and rain after 9 hours at work and an hour each way on the motorway I would have given anything for a producer to take the lot of em and I'd gladly not see them till the weekend lol Lol and I've moaned all day about how cold it is, winter isn't here yet either!!!! I'm with you on this one lol?
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Post by comanchediva on Oct 13, 2014 20:44:09 GMT
Well after mucking 6 out in the driving wind and rain after 9 hours at work and an hour each way on the motorway I would have given anything for a producer to take the lot of em and I'd gladly not see them till the weekend lol Lol and I've moaned all day about how cold it is, winter isn't here yet either!!!! I'm with you on this one lol? Yep mid October the fields a mud bath, the newly clipped pony has almost had his brand new rug wrecked by his field mate who looks like he needs a rug for the first time in his life. 20 sets of Fell feathers need oiling as they're full of mud and it was dark at 6.30pm. Although this is preferable to the white stuff. Sod it, keep one and give him to someone else to look after. I am only kidding but I can see why some people do it and none of us are getting any younger ...
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Post by gillwales on Oct 13, 2014 21:01:32 GMT
I have , in the past, had ponies produced and produced myself.
These have been animals I have bred or bred from.
The sense of achievement when we were successful ourselves was greater, however it was a pleasure to turn up at a show, lend a hand and have a nice day out. Clever producers will ensure that their clients have a good time when showing , win or lose.
We are all entitled to do what we wish to, no laws have been broken, it is not the end of the world. Really I wonder why anyone started this post.
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Post by HP forever on Oct 13, 2014 22:28:59 GMT
I think its pathetic and am certainly not jealous of anyone who has their horses produced. And thank you am also not too poor, I have state of the art facilities at home to produce mine also done hoys from a field too before we moved here.
No achievement paying someone else to do all the graft just for a sit on. And another thing, all these middle aged women running round idolising the producers as if they are pop idols, get a grip!
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Post by VarietySpice on Oct 13, 2014 22:31:11 GMT
Oh my goodness, each to their own for heaven's sake.
Having a horse produced can actually be cheaper than dragging it to every qualifier in the country, but in general I do think the people who constantly moan about produced horses are those who have small minds and small wallets to match. And frankly working a horse in at HOYS, in the electric atmosphere, the tight space, the early/late hours, etc and all the nerves and expended adrenalin involved can leave you completely drained before you even go in the ring, so letting a producer do it makes good sense. For some it's about the satisfaction of doing HOYS all by themselves, and for others it's about recognising that they want/need professional support, and for others again it's about the dressing up, the limelight, the social occasion and hopping on the horse between champagne toasts. What a boring world it would be if we all took the same approach to everything.
If I could afford it, which I can't, I would definitely buy myself a ride at Olympia if the opportunity presented itself. I am totally HP and happy with that, but
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Post by VarietySpice on Oct 13, 2014 22:53:50 GMT
I also think that those of you who are so scathing of others who have their horses produced should think a bit before being so nasty. Has it even occurred to you that some of these owners might love to have their horses at home, see them every day, ride them whenever they feel like it, but simply can't because they work abroad part of the time, or live in a city for the sake of their partner's job, or have to care for elderly relatives. I know that for some friends of mine having their horses produced is a massive compromise and not their first choice. They then live with the knowledge that the horse knows the producer better, and is better when worked in and set up by the producer, and they fear getting things wrong and having nasty people at the ringside waiting for them to fail. But it is this way or no way because they simply cannot do it any other way in their circumstances.
I'm afraid that no matter how it's presented the 'producer hater' argument always, always smacks of bitterness.
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Post by delfachhighwayman on Oct 14, 2014 6:38:08 GMT
bloominheck! Both HP and non HPs are at it today- we have Non HP's sounding like complete and utter toffs on here! (my mother always told me, the people who do have money, don't talk about it...just a thought) and then on the other side you have HP's saying its "pathetic" to use a producer.
I have had my pony in with producers this season for part of the season, one reason being I work very long hours and often travel with my job. The other reason is, i'm not a producer, therefore I don't ahve the skills that these people have. In order to give my pony the best start I knew he would be best with a producer, where we could both learn and eventually I could pick up the reins which I have done.
All of this being said, there are a variety of different reasons why someone would use a producer or indeed stay home produced. Although many people like to think they know everything about everyone, they don't.
"Don't judge a man until you have walked a mile in his shoes......"
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