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Post by bigmama on Dec 28, 2014 16:05:57 GMT
Over the past couple of years, the numbers competing in fells and dales classes has significantly increased and at many shows, this is the largest class in the mm&m ridden section
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sarahp
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Post by sarahp on Dec 28, 2014 18:29:39 GMT
You can tell I don't get out much these days! Which was why I said "assumed".
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Post by bigmama on Dec 28, 2014 19:14:43 GMT
Sorry, sarahp, I wasn't picking you up on anything, just saying how things have changed xx
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Post by Philippa on Dec 29, 2014 3:21:50 GMT
I had wondered why Bev Neal wasn't forward until I read my showing mag today (only just got round to opening it) and saw she had fractured her foot.
Hope you make a speedy recovery Bev. Gutted for you xx
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sarahp
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Post by sarahp on Dec 29, 2014 8:06:06 GMT
No offence taken bigmama, but I think my point is valid.
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Post by sebgarner on Jan 2, 2015 18:21:18 GMT
My daughter's m&m qualified for both Hoys and Olympia last year and this was her first visit to either of these shows ... whilst she enjoyed Hoys, she found competing @ Olympia magical and said it was the best show she had ever been to I was pleased to read that your daughter enjoyed competing at Olympia this year more so than HOYS. Whilst the two show are very different we have always tried to maintain that wow factor all the way along so it makes all the hard work that goes into the show by all those who work at the show behind the scenes and the organising team from Horsepower Ltd and Clarion Events under the direction of Simon Brooks-Ward worth while when your read comments like yours. Hopefully you will be back this year (2015) and I hope you have a successful forthcoming season - Sebastian Garner - Olympia Committee Member
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Post by Guestless on Jan 2, 2015 23:45:43 GMT
I found it disappointing that not a single hairy breed was represented in the top 10 and I know there were some worthy contenders there. I wasn't there so can't say for sure but I am hoping the results do not confirm my suspicion that BSPS judges prefer the lighter-built M&M breeds and often appear to overlook the heavier breeds. I certainly found the conformation marks for two of the ponies in particular rather surprising.
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Post by chloesmum on Jan 3, 2015 11:12:52 GMT
Not according to the judges 'must haves and pet hates' in the H&H report!!!! Although I did smile at one comment from a ride judge!!!!!!! Seriously I think it goes in 'waves' - this year there were not so many hairy breeds qualified and yet other years they have dominated, as has already been said very unusual just to have one Highland forward but I am sure it will be different again next year.
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Post by bigmama on Jan 3, 2015 12:47:01 GMT
My daughter's m&m qualified for both Hoys and Olympia last year and this was her first visit to either of these shows ... whilst she enjoyed Hoys, she found competing @ Olympia magical and said it was the best show she had ever been to I was pleased to read that your daughter enjoyed competing at Olympia this year more so than HOYS. Whilst the two show are very different we have always tried to maintain that wow factor all the way along so it makes all the hard work that goes into the show by all those who work at the show behind the scenes and the organising team from Horsepower Ltd and Clarion Events under the direction of Simon Brooks-Ward worth while when your read comments like yours. Hopefully you will be back this year (2015) and I hope you have a successful forthcoming season - Sebastian Garner - Olympia Committee Member What a lovely post from you, Seb .. thank you so much and yes, we will be trying to compete @ Olympia again this year
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Post by Guestless on Jan 3, 2015 16:49:36 GMT
Not according to the judges 'must haves and pet hates' in the H&H report!!!! Although I did smile at one comment from a ride judge!!!!!!! Seriously I think it goes in 'waves' - this year there were not so many hairy breeds qualified and yet other years they have dominated, as has already been said very unusual just to have one Highland forward but I am sure it will be different again next year. Has anyone got a copy that could be scanned in? If there is something involving a pet hate then that may explain the marks, so it would be good to see it if possible
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Post by honeypot on Jan 3, 2015 17:05:27 GMT
I think its not secret that there is a BSPS type, and a NPS type M&M,I have been showing 30years and its always like that since BSPS realised that their market share was going down and needed to branch out. Whether you agree with the BSPS type, you have to give them credit for effectively managing their finances and shop window.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2015 18:32:46 GMT
I'm probably putting the cat amongst the pigeons here but as someone who hasn't been to Olympia since its NPS days but has followed the competition with interest I do think one of the things NPS did right was that breed panel judges were putting the best example on the day through to Olympia with breed qualifiers being held at the breed shows. At the heritage champs the breed classes are not judged by judges who are on the breed panel for the breed they are choosing to represent at Olympia.... I also think in order to retain the prestige of the competition when it used to be very difficult to qualify for Olympia that there should be more direct qualifiers where the champion qualifies and less coming from the Heritage champs.
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Post by delbel on Jan 4, 2015 13:37:22 GMT
I went to watch the winning d and have to say her marks were very consistent in both ridden and confirmation, it was a fantastic day and well deserved. however one of the ride judges did give some very strange marks with crap shows getting marked in the high 30's and good shows low 30's. Not sure which judge was which, can someone tell me was the woman in the orange hat judge 3 or 4?
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Post by livamino on Jan 4, 2015 14:23:07 GMT
I think its not secret that there is a BSPS type, and a NPS type M&M,I have been showing 30years and its always like that since BSPS realised that their market share was going down and needed to branch out. Whether you agree with the BSPS type, you have to give them credit for effectively managing their finances and shop window. I'm new to showing at this level - can you advise what you mean by the BSPS M&M type? Thanks
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Post by tangerine on Jan 4, 2015 15:44:04 GMT
I find it very strange that you can qualify for the prestigious Olympia finals without even winning a class let alone a championship .
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Post by bigmama on Jan 4, 2015 16:02:34 GMT
I think its not secret that there is a BSPS type, and a NPS type M&M,I have been showing 30years and its always like that since BSPS realised that their market share was going down and needed to branch out. Whether you agree with the BSPS type, you have to give them credit for effectively managing their finances and shop window. I'm new to showing at this level - can you advise what you mean by the BSPS M&M type? Thanks I would interpret 'BSPS type' as meaning lighter, finer, more show pony as opposed to the heavier, hairy, traditional type natives
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Post by livamino on Jan 4, 2015 16:22:28 GMT
I'm new to showing at this level - can you advise what you mean by the BSPS M&M type? Thanks I would interpret 'BSPS type' as meaning lighter, finer, more show pony as opposed to the heavier, hairy, traditional type natives Oh dear, my Connie is more the stockier, traditional type.
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Post by honeypot on Jan 4, 2015 16:56:15 GMT
Some natives their natural native action is round, more suited to rough ground, where as a riding pony type has a smoother action. In some ways its a benefit as you may have a pony that is 'one type' and if you had only one standard of judging even though a nice pony it would always be down the line. I have a lovely Connemara( Irish bred) who it would be doubtful if she would ever do well under NPS, but always does well in other classes. That's showing, learning whats in and whats out and making your animal look as if it fits the bill. I like NPS standards and judging, and in an ideal world I would have a yard full of ponies that their judges would love, but half the fun is finding something with a good temperament and then finding it a job, and if you show, getting as close to the top of the line as possible.
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fredaf
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Post by fredaf on Jan 4, 2015 17:15:25 GMT
I think you'll find that many judges are on BSPS and NPS panels and most will be on one or two breed panels as well. There shouldn't be a difference in action favoured by different judges - the action is detailed in the breed standard and that's the criteria that should be adhered to. The problem arises in the interpretation which can be very different between people - also remember a judge can only judge what's in front of them on the day! A panel of judges is likely to come up with an 'average' result. The comments in H&H about the experience of different judges were a good indicator of the individuals experience with native ponies. Just because someone has qualified a pony or two for a major competition doesn't make them a breed 'expert' - but they will be aware of the pitfalls that can arise on the way to the championship!
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Post by bubbles1822 on Jan 4, 2015 22:39:13 GMT
The problem with the individual breed representation I that each breed only has one individual qualifier at the hertitage champs. If bsps have each breed society a straight though qualifier as well it would enable 2 of every breed to go though. I also feel it should be top 10 large and top ten small and then overall chmp and supreme at the final.
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Post by Guestless on Jan 5, 2015 18:38:34 GMT
I find it very strange that you can qualify for the prestigious Olympia finals without even winning a class let alone a championship . Yes, I think that's one of the worst changes to the final. I loved the fact it was the champion who qualified and I think it's a bit of a let down that there are so few direct qualifiers. It just seems like a way to boost entries at the BSPS champs to me (and makes it even more expensive for us Scots to have a go - another reason why I just don't bother).
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sarahp
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Post by sarahp on Jan 5, 2015 18:55:38 GMT
Tickets were very hard won under the previous system - my old stallion won 10 classes one year plus a few Res Ch and still never qualified. He reckoned he'd done enough after the class and went to sleep in the Chs, very frustrating.
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Post by chloesmum on Jan 6, 2015 9:05:15 GMT
Don't want to turn a results thread into a NPS vs BSPS debate and accept peoples opinion on the old system, however I believe the BSPS has opened this competition up to so many more competitors who perhaps would never have had the opportunity to ride at such a wonderful show, us included! I don't think anyone is saying the finalists are the BEST of their breed in the country just representatives of their breed who have qualified, Best is always going to be subjective anyway. Besides opening the competition up to many more people, increasing the numbers forward the new system does also mean if you are really keen to qualify you don't have to trawl the country so cuts travel etc. I also doubt there would be enough shows to take the qualifiers if it went back to the old system of being Champion, most of these shows now run HOYS qualifiers so would mean another major shake up. BSPS did also 'invite' many breed judges straight on to the Heritage panel and uses them! I do quite like the idea of each breed having it's own independant qualifier (apart from BSPS Heritage Champs) as was suggested by bubbles but again with all the breed socities now offering a HOYS qualifier not sure how this would work? I think the BSPS have done a great job and personally love the Heritage Champs, just as the NPS does a great job with the Spring and Summer Champs and I wish both societies continued success.
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sarahp
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Post by sarahp on Jan 6, 2015 10:20:09 GMT
Everything and everybody has to adapt to changing times. HOYS seems to be the major target now, competitors vote with their entries. I don't really follow how BSPS have opened the Olympia competition up to "so many more" though? The numbers going up to the Final will always be limited due to the space available, and it was always open to anyone to enter the qualifiers.
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Post by chloesmum on Jan 6, 2015 13:50:56 GMT
What I meant was that there are more ponies forward at the final now, can't remember the exact numbers but a BSPS increased the numbers that qualify significantly so thats what I meant by 'opening' it up to more.
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sarahp
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Post by sarahp on Jan 6, 2015 15:36:08 GMT
Marks given in this thread for 40 finalists, in the 1980s it was 33 and in 2003 it was 35. So not that many more, given the number who must attempt the qualifiers. I not trying to have an NPS vs BSPS argument here, but I don't think that would count as a significant increase. I have checked my old catalogues for accurate data, and I can't remember when the BSPS took over.
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Post by Welshcob92 on Jan 6, 2015 22:36:23 GMT
Marks given in this thread for 40 finalists, in the 1980s it was 33 and in 2003 it was 35. So not that many more, given the number who must attempt the qualifiers. I not trying to have an NPS vs BSPS argument here, but I don't think that would count as a significant increase. I have checked my old catalogues for accurate data, and I can't remember when the BSPS took over. BSPS took over from 2011
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Post by welshiegirl on Jan 7, 2015 14:25:18 GMT
I think Olympia is a fantastic show despite never qualifying or even spectating and would love to qualify however I do think it is still very hard To do so, for us the HOYS come first simply because they're easier to find out about, it's wlways after the last few HOYS we look at Olympia and I think I found about two or three (includin the earlier dates in the seasons we'd missed ) to go to, (in the area for us or reasonable distance) Id only go to the direct champion ones because they were close but i feel my section c wouldn't get a look in against the strong lineups if we made it to the championship, (all depends on the judge, which is showing I know but if you know that judge likes small breeds you know you'll be judged fairly but they have the upper hand, you know in the HOYS qualifiers for a section c you have a higher chance of qualifying)
I would prefer to travel to heritage championships and go for the direct c- but I think they should be a few more of them, as this would entail a more equal amount of each breed at the final, however as people stated probably will be too hard with the amount of HOYS qualifiers now at shows, I think its harder to qualify for olympia than HOYS (not taking anyone's glory away that has qualified for HOYS !!!!!!!!!) now and the equines there were definitely all deserving and best of breeds were definitely excellent examples of each breeds!
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sarahp
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Post by sarahp on Jan 7, 2015 15:20:37 GMT
Well as there are 40 finalists in all at Olympia, and many times that at HOYS over all the native breeds, I'd agree harder to qualify for the former, just a matter of numbers if nothing else!
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Post by cyffryn on Jan 7, 2015 18:23:07 GMT
It seems there are very few heritage qualifiers in the North therefore to qualify a fair amount of travel must be taken into consideration. The costs involved rule out many competitors. Also ,If you have a heavy breed it is possible given the preferences for lighter breeds in the Heritage champs , you would concentrate on qualifying for Hoys which is achievable financially for the normal competitor and has a wider split of Breed classes . Obviously it is then up to the judges. It may be easier to qualify for HOYS but a lot harder to achieve high placings.
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