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Post by chloesmum on Jan 6, 2015 16:42:11 GMT
Like other people Chloe has been trying to plan ahead with time off from work and we are now very depressed!! South of England have moved their M&M HOYS qualifiers to a Thursday from Saturday so that means in June/early July there are 6 HOYS qualifiers all mid week in the space of a couple of weeks! Add to that another 5 mid week ones in July/August! So anyone who works would have to take 11 days off to compete! The 6 in June/July would also be in term time so surely that puts a lot of pressure on parents who cannot take children out of school as well. When everyone moans that the natives are dominated by producers is there any wonder! We went down the native route as we could not take the time off to do the horse qualifiers which are always mid-week, seems like the native classes are now the same. Come on shows/Grandstand Media what about people who are amateurs and have to work all week and what about supporting children riding these breeds. I hope Grandstand Media may consider where they allocate qualifiers in future to try and ensure these are open to all.
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Post by pipandflo on Jan 6, 2015 16:57:56 GMT
Here here Chloesmum and as some are afair way away it will mean two days off and driving home afterwards and being cream crackered the next day as well.
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Post by clobo121082 on Jan 6, 2015 17:14:22 GMT
worked out there are potentially 14 mid week shows - not sure what days Royal Highland and the new Stoneleigh show will fall on. I am really gutted about SOE and feel for the show as I believe they will lose entries now and probably in turn lose their qualifiers. It was always our family show which even my dad would come to! It is just disheartening when you work to be able to afford to compete in the first place - I like to ride my own ponies! Sods law as well this year I have already written off two weekend qualifiers I would usually do as know the judges aren't keen on the pony.On the plus side means I can will be looking to support a lot more smaller, nice shows this year with the baby ponies. Think the obsession with getting to HOYS is definitely waning.
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Post by maxandpaddy on Jan 6, 2015 17:25:37 GMT
As a working mum who cant afford time off I totally agree with all the above!!!!! Plus our daughter has her GCSE's this year and has been asked to ride in qualifiers for someone else but i've had to state no midweek qualifiers till after shes finished them
I cant understand why they do this especially junior qualifiers
Crazy it needs re-organising !!
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Post by molliesmum on Jan 6, 2015 19:49:42 GMT
I agree, this has become ridiculous. I work full time and I am restricted on how many days off I can have, and when I can take them, and I also need to take some of my annual leave to spend on holiday with my non-horsey husband. I'm on the verge of giving up on showing and moving to dressage because the qualifiers and summer champs dates have become too difficult to manage.
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Post by maddiesmum on Jan 6, 2015 20:22:24 GMT
Couldn't agree more with all of the above!! We do LR & I just cannot see the justification for any junior classes to be in term time?! Not when these multiple day shows often run over a weekend day too. The number of qualifiers in the week for other classes sounds ridiculous too!! Not exactly competitor friendly!!
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Post by ponymum on Jan 6, 2015 20:32:16 GMT
Same here clobo - hoys is fast becoming a nuisance to try and qualify for and have a life outside horses! We havent had a family holiday since 2007!!!!!!! So I think we will do a few IF the judges are fair and worth spending the money under , Thankgod we have a Novice connie to do Nps!! Might save all my hoys entry money and fuel costs and put it towards a holiday! Prob pay for 2 weeks in the states!!!!
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Post by gillwales on Jan 6, 2015 20:37:56 GMT
While not refering to children, do remember not everyone works monday to friday, those that work at weekends will be pleased, and hopefully this will deter people from charging all over the place chasing qualifiers. I would like to see a restriction on the number of qualifiers pony can enter to stop this, I have just put on my tin hat!
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Post by Philippa on Jan 6, 2015 20:52:13 GMT
While not refering to children, do remember not everyone works monday to friday, those that work at weekends will be pleased, and hopefully this will deter people from charging all over the place chasing qualifiers. I would like to see a restriction on the number of qualifiers pony can enter to stop this, I have just put on my tin hat! Lol GW. I love your controversial posts!!!! I will however agree with both sides of the argument. We run our own business and we can't go jetting off all over the country every week, we also work weekends though so unless I rope someone in to help me (usually mother, who has her own show & judging calander to contend with with her dog shows) I need to pick where we go very carefully. It affects us both midweek & weekends so I just have to pick my shows and hope work allows us to go.
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Post by maxandpaddy on Jan 6, 2015 20:56:08 GMT
A nice idea gillwales
I think - my turn for tin hat - set shows should be banned and it should be judges choice, get rid of the robot ponies with jockeys that cant actually ride !
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Post by clobo121082 on Jan 6, 2015 21:00:02 GMT
GW I don't totally disagree with you. We won't travel everywhere for shows and the ponies comes first - nobody people or humans want to go from show to show. Getting to HOYS shld still be the best ponies not those who can do the most qualifiers and play the numbers game. also in fairness it's hard going for producers to I'm sure they don't want to be out on road for weeks on end!
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Post by maxandpaddy on Jan 6, 2015 21:18:45 GMT
No offence intended but isnt that what Producers get paid for and want to do? I would if I could ( plus money, energy and expertise )
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Post by Philippa on Jan 6, 2015 21:59:38 GMT
No offence intended but isnt that what Producers get paid for and want to do? I would if I could ( plus money, energy and expertise ) I agree. Having worked with top jumping horses we travelled the length and breadth of the country going from show to show, living in the lorry out of a suitcase from May to September. It was great, it was what we did and I loved it!!! If I was in the position to do it with a string of ponies I'd do it all over again on the show circuit. Not to chase qualifiers but because I enjoy shows & showing.
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Post by clobo121082 on Jan 6, 2015 22:22:17 GMT
Agreed but I'm sure a good producer wouldn't want to take their pony out again and again and again
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Post by gillwales on Jan 7, 2015 0:14:20 GMT
A nice idea gillwales !! I think - my turn for tin hat - set shows should be banned and it should be judges choice, get rid of the robot ponies with jockeys that cant actually ride !!! <<< ducking Well when I was judging I could , and sometimes I did, state what I wanted to see in a show, in fairness the WHP jockies were usually up to this as they had to cope with different courses to jump, however I have seen this done in SP and HP classes and there are some children, and adults in their classes that look simply terrified of doing something out of their comfort zone. I do recall however at one show when showing a client's RH that the judge said it would have been fun to have had a jump in the ring.... some of my fellow competitors looked like she had just grown 2 heads, I cannot say that I relished the idea of jumping in a showing saddle either
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bugs
Junior Member
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Post by bugs on Jan 7, 2015 0:38:59 GMT
I understand from everyone's point of view and it can never suit everyone, but I am happy that some are on weekdays. As a shift worker I can't do weekends very easily as my days off are often on weekdays and leave on weekends is hard to get. It also means I may be able to do some without having to take leave, as normally this limits what I can do show wise during the year. We don't chase hoys qualifiers but do some local ones, but this applies to all shows, which are mostly on weekends.
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Post by Philippa on Jan 7, 2015 5:58:31 GMT
Agreed but I'm sure a good producer wouldn't want to take their pony out again and again and again No, but they usually have a string of ponies for the season which means they are going from one show to the next, possibly calling at home on the way past to change ponies or having a second lorry come meet them.
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sarahp
Happy to help
Posts: 9,510
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Post by sarahp on Jan 7, 2015 7:23:48 GMT
My age is showing, but I must admit I did enjoy the days when winning a class or even better a Ch at a major show was an aim in its own right, not just another chance for a ticket. To win at RASE, SoE and the like was classed as an achievement and meant something special. Still, as I've said before, competitors vote with their entries and the shows follow the money trail.
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Post by catkin on Jan 7, 2015 10:59:21 GMT
I totally agree that HOYS (to me) is not the be all and end all. I too remember other wins that were just as prestigious and actually more fun. BUT, if I am competing (post novice) I want to compete with the best. And the best competition (these days) revolves around qualifiers, well largely.
I think the world has moved on and we need to question where qualifiers are allocated. Traditionally bigger and county shows were awarded them. Fair enough. Most county shows are mid-week, which is what is causing the problem in today's world, when more of us work and kids cannot get out of school easily. However, conversely, I love our county shows and if they lost the qualifiers I believe they would be at risk. They are having a tough time anyway with visitors. I think this is also linked to people being at work. So, perhaps the county shows need to think about moving to weekends where possible.
Also, whilst I could happily take or leave HOYS, my daughter absolutely loves it. I have often said to her that all the hard work, expense and stress of the qualifying circuit could easily be avoided if only we didn't care about qualifying, but her clear response is always that she wants to compete with the best and her goal is HOYS. She genuinely does not mind about being placed or not (though of course we all want to do our best) but really wants to 'be there'. Last year, ironically, we couldn't go. Our lovely pony qualified very easily and had an outstanding season, so with the wind behind us, would have been a contender for a place. However, we chose not to compete due to a connection with a judge. Legally we could have gone. Morally we decided not to. My daughter was devastated. I still believe we made the right decision. Looking back, we had a fantastically successful and happy season, but it was sad that our lovely pony wasn't there in the ring, with the best of the best on that one day. Silly really, isn't it?!
... and I hate to be negative, but I can't see things changing without financial impact. And in all truth, are people really going to stop entering the qualifiers? Bit depressing really!
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Post by Guestless on Jan 7, 2015 11:17:07 GMT
not sure what days Royal Highland and the new Stoneleigh show will fall on. Unless the timetable is radically altered,the HOYS M&M classes are on the Sunday at the Royal Highland Show.
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Post by muggley on Jan 7, 2015 11:25:02 GMT
The Highland Shows Open Natives are on Sunday, Mini's Saturday and WHP Friday. I would love to go to HOYS but I don't have the ponies to do it with nor the finances to chase qualifiers up and down the country.
I would love to take my ROR horse out in a HOYS qualifier but the most northern one is Lancashire - not exactly travelling distance from central Scotland! I wish they would spread them out a bit more!
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Post by tangerine on Jan 7, 2015 14:19:31 GMT
Who remembers those Halcyon days when at PUK Peterborough to be stripped ie back line/front line was such a thrill and the gold ring evening performance was such a major thrill for both parent and child. The stands were packed, the atmosphere was electric. Maybe those days will return at the demise of HOYS and we can continue to do the in hand progressing into the very novice, novice and intermediate classes. The gentle introduction into open classes would be something to aim for - what a lovely thought.
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Post by catkin on Jan 7, 2015 18:03:38 GMT
indeed tangerine. A really lovely thought!
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sarahp
Happy to help
Posts: 9,510
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Post by sarahp on Jan 7, 2015 18:24:31 GMT
i think you have a foot in both camps catkin - I agree with all you say in your long post above but I don't have to like it! I'm old and stroppy enough to do as I choose, and my daughter's old enough to do her own thing anyway so I have no-one else to consider.
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Post by catkin on Jan 8, 2015 8:11:39 GMT
Lucky you sarahp - independent stroppiness sounds attractive!
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Post by nffan on Jan 8, 2015 12:14:54 GMT
Who remembers those Halcyon days when at PUK Peterborough to be stripped ie back line/front line was such a thrill and the gold ring evening performance was such a major thrill for both parent and child. The stands were packed, the atmosphere was electric. Maybe those days will return at the demise of HOYS and we can continue to do the in hand progressing into the very novice, novice and intermediate classes. The gentle introduction into open classes would be something to aim for - what a lovely thought. PUK at Peterborough was something I loved, classes rammed with entries, everyone staying over and having fun and the evening performances were something else.
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Post by dogandbone on Jan 8, 2015 13:58:24 GMT
Does anyone know who the 'people' are in Grandstand Media who make these decisions re qualifiers, and classes to be run at HOYS etc? I have heard that the horse classes are totally governed by BSHA office, and no one at Grand stand Med is able to have any input, as the BSHA office is so dominating - I have no idea personally whether this is true, but i wonder how it all works for the pony classes? One never hears of the governing body having come from a showing back ground. Just interesting for various different reasons!!
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Post by chloesmum on Jan 8, 2015 14:34:00 GMT
No idea dogandbone. I THINK in the old days BSPS decided who had qualifiers for the classes which were under their rules so that was all the plaited pony classes & M&Ms. Then when it all changed to being 'open' and not under any one particular society rules but HOYS rules i.e you can be a member of BSPS;PUK;NPS;TSR etc I think Grandstand Media took charge of allocating the qualifiers. To be fair I guess they don't have a say in what days show put classes on however I think catkin made some really valid points re County Shows and mid-week. I love our County Shows but do feel the horse/pony classes are now just a historic add on to the shopping and displays, look what happened to East of England and it's classes. I just wish there was a bit more balance, 3 Counties; Cheshire; Lincoln; Norfolk all within a couple of weeks and all mid week and now SOE moving pony classes to a Thursday!
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Post by gillwales on Jan 8, 2015 15:56:07 GMT
No idea dogandbone. I THINK in the old days BSPS decided who had qualifiers for the classes which were under their rules so that was all the plaited pony classes & M&Ms. Then when it all changed to being 'open' and not under any one particular society rules but HOYS rules i.e you can be a member of BSPS;PUK;NPS;TSR etc I think Grandstand Media took charge of allocating the qualifiers. To be fair I guess they don't have a say in what days show put classes on however I think catkin made some really valid points re County Shows and mid-week. I love our County Shows but do feel the horse/pony classes are now just a historic add on to the shopping and displays, look what happened to East of England and it's classes. I just wish there was a bit more balance, 3 Counties; Cheshire; Lincoln; Norfolk all within a couple of weeks and all mid week and now SOE moving pony classes to a Thursday! How many shows do you want to go to? TBH if you have to chase to every show with a qualifier is your pony or your production good enough? Which shows do you think should have qualifiers if not at the county shows? These have always been the best shows to attend. Shows such as N.P.S. and PUK have so many classes for the same ponies it is rather overwhelming for the ponies.
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Post by bubbles1822 on Jan 8, 2015 16:04:00 GMT
No idea dogandbone. I THINK in the old days BSPS decided who had qualifiers for the classes which were under their rules so that was all the plaited pony classes & M&Ms. Then when it all changed to being 'open' and not under any one particular society rules but HOYS rules i.e you can be a member of BSPS;PUK;NPS;TSR etc I think Grandstand Media took charge of allocating the qualifiers. To be fair I guess they don't have a say in what days show put classes on however I think catkin made some really valid points re County Shows and mid-week. I love our County Shows but do feel the horse/pony classes are now just a historic add on to the shopping and displays, look what happened to East of England and it's classes. I just wish there was a bit more balance, 3 Counties; Cheshire; Lincoln; Norfolk all within a couple of weeks and all mid week and now SOE moving pony classes to a Thursday! How many shows do you want to go to? TBH if you have to chase to every show with a qualifier is your pony or your production good enough? Which shows do you think should have qualifiers if not at the county shows? These have always been the best shows to attend. Shows such as N.P.S. and PUK have so many classes for the same ponies it is rather overwhelming for the ponies. Think that's a bit of an unfair question 'how many shows do you want to go to?' We had 2 open ponies last year and they did a handful of hoys between them but if you like the county shows the hoys are often the only class anyway, for the ponies to do a hoys class it isn't really too stressful for them, we go to ponies uk and they do between 2-4 classes between 3 of them each day, yes the girls come back the same and the boys are tired but they recover within a few days and I'm sure they'd do it all over again if we asked them. In summer we nearly go somewhere very weekend whether to a show or to do something else.
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