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Post by Why on Jan 19, 2015 19:54:28 GMT
I am very confused at the new trend in clipping out the legs of native ponies and showing them.
Its against breed society rules to clip the legs out, yet ponies are still being shown and doing well.
This makes me wonder if competitors know their rules and why judges are not addressing the issue?
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Post by Philippa on Jan 19, 2015 20:49:07 GMT
I've not seen this but yes it's against breed society rules. Suppose it depends if they are showing them in breed classes. Blooming ridiculous having rules if they are not adhered to !!!
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Post by cayo on Jan 20, 2015 9:23:47 GMT
i haven't seen any with feather off but ridden ponies do go out clipped to below knee leaving feathers blended in so there are no fluffy legs under a clipped pony ,i dont see a problem with it as it make s them look tidy and coat legs all grow back at same rate no waiting for leg hair to molt out .
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Post by lulah on Jan 22, 2015 20:54:20 GMT
ive seen alot of welsh this year and last year with clipped legs to blend in just below the knees/hocks .
whilst i do agree it looks very smart, WPCS does states no clipped legs (but dont make it clear weather this is the whole leg or down to the feathers)
my welsh cob is full clipped with legs left on as i dont want to risk being marked down, and my blending skills arent that great!
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Post by pipandwill on Jan 22, 2015 21:32:31 GMT
It is against breed rules, but judges appear to not penalise...
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Post by mcnaughty on Feb 10, 2015 13:15:46 GMT
Do you mean clipping lower legs ie feather or just blending to knee?
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Post by ponymum on Feb 10, 2015 14:20:55 GMT
Blending to the knee!
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Post by mcnaughty on Feb 11, 2015 13:07:00 GMT
You are allowed to blend to the knee aren't you. I know that removing large amounts of hair on a LR pony is frowned upon though.
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Post by maddiesmum on Feb 11, 2015 17:39:42 GMT
It didn't seem to be frowned upon at Heritage Champs as lots of fully clipped (knee blended) LR's. Our pony was one of a minority not clipped.
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Post by Guestless on Feb 11, 2015 18:15:16 GMT
I really don't like it - particularly with the hairy breeds. It's winter for goodness sake, our native ponies grow all that hair for a reason and, while we can rug to compensate for clipping bodies, how do you compensate for clipping their legs? Judges IMO should be penalising, particularly when there is a definition in the breed descriptions (as there is with Highland ponies) that says legs to be left unclipped.
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Post by mcnaughty on Feb 13, 2015 11:21:49 GMT
Guestless I do agree but its a bit like the wilkie debate - if the judges are not going to set a rule and stick to it then why should showing people? I have not had our pony a year yet but our previous welsh A would not lose his coat completely until May or June and start moulting and growing his winter again in August and he is only a baby! I want my welsh a's summer coat to look as good as possible for as long as possible and that will mean taking the clippers to him this weekend. I only took out a large bib (basically the whole of his front end and tummy up to now.
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Post by mcnaughty on Feb 13, 2015 11:22:23 GMT
I would be more than happy to leave the coat alone if everyone left their coats alone but as they don't ......
Thanks Maddie's mum - that makes me feel a whole load better about wielding the clippers this weekend. I was very worried about the LR classes. We want to move up into FR but my poor daughter only changed pony at the end of September from a very kick along pony to an ex open class pony who himself is coming down a few pegs (including being gelded!) to be a kids pony. She then broke her ankle in the school playground and I have a new full time job so our training has gone out the window! Will defo be concentrating on the LR again this year (she is 8 rising 9 in May) but hopefully next year will be the start of her FR career!
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sarahp
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Post by sarahp on Feb 13, 2015 11:29:11 GMT
Whatever happened do doing what is right because it's right rather than anything goes if you can get away with it in order to win a rosette - or a better rosette?
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Post by mcnaughty on Feb 13, 2015 11:34:35 GMT
As I said Sarahp - why would you put yourself at a disadvantage? If the rules were concrete and everyone HAD to stick to them then the showing world would be a much easier to understand place. But, when it gets to May and my pony looks like a moth-eaten rug because I 'did the right thing' and all the others have not, then what? Do I pat myself on the back for being good or get peeed off because I have put hours of work and money and effort and sweat and tears just to be put down the line because my pony looks like a pile of poo?? Erm, sorry no brainer - I'm going to follow the crowd!
It is only a bit of hair .... it will grow again.
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sarahp
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Post by sarahp on Feb 13, 2015 12:13:02 GMT
Why would it look like a moth-eaten rug? I was thinking of the wilkis too, you brought that one up!
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Post by maddiesmum on Feb 13, 2015 12:26:20 GMT
If it fits you & your ponies situation then go for it, it definitely hasn't been penalised in my experience. I don't feel the need to fully clip mine as she doesn't do enough work on the LR (my daughter is only 4) so as I said I left her as she was for Heritage Champs & she had a bib clip in November as was getting too sweaty at pony club etc Mcnaughty's pony sounds hairer than ours though.....this was mine unclipped at Heritage mid October...
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Post by maddiesmum on Feb 13, 2015 12:27:54 GMT
Oh and I can't zoom in on your profile pic mcnaughty but is your pony Romeo? If so LOVE him x
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halfpass
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Post by halfpass on Feb 13, 2015 12:31:37 GMT
I think that we have to look at the rule books, most were laid down in the year dot and need to be amended, after all do we feed and maintain our ponies in a by-gone age NO, a lot of our natives do a multitude of different jobs during the winter months that they didn't do in yesteryear, many hunt, event, dressage and showjump, so on a welfare issue they should be clipped, I'm not saying young stock, but ridden ponies then yes, the Shetlands that I have in are all ridden and clipped, and are all happy and healthy, so if it's ridden and in regular work then get them coats OFF.
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Post by mcnaughty on Feb 13, 2015 14:15:56 GMT
Yes Romeo - I understood he had a fan club! He was gelded Jan 2014 and is now doing LR and FR but daughter has broken herself my falling over in the playground and fracturing her ankle! Arghh! Mind you thank god it's Feb and not June!! I don't know how his coat will look through moult as I only bought him at the end of September but my old welsh a was as I said stupid with his coat and yes he did look like a moth eaten rug when we was moulting as being a blue roan he for some reason lost all his dark hairs first and it didn't all come out evenly ie his sides took ages to finish and had little tufts of hair especially if another horse had groomed him as they don't tend to do an even job! So with dead/scruffy white hairs in patches and dark new coat showing through in holes it was awful!
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sarahp
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Post by sarahp on Feb 13, 2015 14:54:46 GMT
My post was not about clipping or not clipping, but attitude to existing rules.
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Post by Guestless on Feb 13, 2015 17:33:47 GMT
Guestless I do agree but its a bit like the wilkie debate - if the judges are not going to set a rule and stick to it then why should showing people? For me, it's nothing to do with the wilkie debate. The clipping rules are set down by individual breed societies and not by show societies. I don't think any of the breed societies have rules relating to which bits to use in their breed descriptions
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Post by mcnaughty on Feb 13, 2015 17:57:15 GMT
If the rules were set down and adhered to by judges then there would be no question but they are not so people will 'bend' the rules to their own benefit.
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Post by maddiesmum on Feb 13, 2015 18:28:18 GMT
Romeo kept his coat for HOYS so sure he would be fine In terms of the rules I think they should be more specific, if breed society say no legs clipped they should stipulate if that's the whole leg or if just feathers blended etc And for example BSPS heritage LR/FR rules state excessive clipping/trimming will be penalised, but what do they mean by excessive? It's open to interpretation....as is the Wilkie rule where it says the type of snaffle will be taken into consideration, but clearly it is not often penalised....
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justliloldme
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Post by justliloldme on Feb 13, 2015 18:33:55 GMT
ive never gone down lower than proper leg lines, some people cannot get these angles right IMO and look a mess, should follow the natural arch of the leg without coming down to far, but not cut straight, i do not like to see ponies with blended legs i like to see them natural from top to bottom shall try a attaching picture Attachment Deleted
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halfpass
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Post by halfpass on Feb 14, 2015 0:12:58 GMT
I would not clip legs out and not on a hairy. I would worry that the feathers would not grow back for the next season and/or they would not look natural, someone who has harries could explain why anyone would do this and compete in native classes in the winter
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Post by comanchediva on Feb 14, 2015 8:36:51 GMT
Our two ridden Fells are clipped with legs left on, we didn't attempt to blend to the knee.
We've shown both in hand and ridden over this winter and not been marked down as far as I can see. They are clipped for their own comfort as they are a sweaty mess with their coats left on.
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Post by Guestless on Feb 14, 2015 18:59:14 GMT
I would not clip legs out and not on a hairy. I would worry that the feathers would not grow back for the next season and/or they would not look natural, someone who has harries could explain why anyone would do this and compete in native classes in the winter I don't think any of them are getting their legs completed clipped out halfpass, but it does appear to have become "fashionable" to clip down to the knees rather than the top of the legs
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Post by mcnaughty on Feb 15, 2015 11:56:36 GMT
Romeo kept his coat for HOYS so sure he would be fine In terms of the rules I think they should be more specific, if breed society say no legs clipped they should stipulate if that's the whole leg or if just feathers blended etc And for example BSPS heritage LR/FR rules state excessive clipping/trimming will be penalised, but what do they mean by excessive? It's open to interpretation....as is the Wilkie rule where it says the type of snaffle will be taken into consideration, but clearly it is not often penalised.... Thank you. So pleased someone is reading my posts properly re. the connection between the wilkie and clipping debate. It is as clear as crystal to me that both rules are just too woolly and open to interpretation and therefore abuse. Thanks for the Romeo coat update. His coat is no where near to Basil's thickness and length but I have just clipped the lot off and blended legs today (sitting here itching and scratching!). If we get penalised then so be it. This is only our first spring and we are not expecting top results anyway. Cant wait for him to turn into orange pony!! Next year he will be pampered a lot more but unfortunately from when I bought him at the end of Sept to new year I had to leave him out due to work commitments so his coat went a bit mental! Moved yard now.
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Post by Guestless on Feb 15, 2015 19:25:34 GMT
To be fair, I don't have anything to do with LR or FR classes so had no idea such a rule existed - although I guess it is no different to PUK saying "any suitable bridle"
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Post by lancs on Feb 15, 2015 22:58:12 GMT
While on the subject what about clipping heads especially the hairy fells, highlands, dales. I always thought they had to have their heads left on and it was a definite no no to touch the beard or whiskers. Is it now fashionable and allowed to clip their heads in winter and trim them in summer ?
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