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Post by Guest1234 on Mar 23, 2015 14:39:46 GMT
Why do these classes even exist !! Completely pointless as the rules are broken .and nothing is done about it I think in the last six of these classes I have watched over the last year , there has always been at least one sometimes two or three children in it who have previously competed of the lead !!
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Post by roxy93 on Mar 23, 2015 14:43:54 GMT
But if they have competed on the lead why shouldn't they be allowed in first year first ridden? My youngest sister did this on my pony had never been on lead went straight in so she was eligible for it but i don't see problem with riders that have been on lead as its a step into going into first ridden? I never paid attention to rules as knew she would be ok so would like to know why you cant enter after being on the lead as my niece will be coming off lead and going into first ridden.
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Post by Em5 on Mar 23, 2015 14:56:42 GMT
Think op meant off lead
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Post by Guest 1234 on Mar 23, 2015 15:32:36 GMT
Yes sorry I see it says of the lead but obviously I meant off!!! No problem when they have just done lead rein - that's who the classes are for - but some even do this class for more than one year !!
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Post by roxy93 on Mar 23, 2015 15:40:17 GMT
Thank you oh good little niece can be in class too then, but now i understand where your coming from yes if they have a done a season off lead in first ridden should not be allowed in that class, so many people break the rules its getting ridiculous.
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Post by millwillow on Mar 23, 2015 16:47:48 GMT
We did these classes last year for a genuine just off the lead rider and there where kids in the class who had been doing first ridden the previous year. it would be so hard to keep track
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Post by tountmarastud on Mar 23, 2015 17:14:38 GMT
We did a Tiny Tots FR one year at Heritage first time ever off lead for my daughter and guess what, the one that won had been 3rd in open small breeds at HOYS with same jockey!! Struth! My daughter couldn't even canter. Sadly its just another class to win for a lot of people.
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Post by springtimes on Mar 23, 2015 17:16:15 GMT
At our show we run a FYFR it isn't affiliated and there are no qualifiers it is run soley for children coming off the lead. We decided to put a pony height limit of 13hh's because we found that several children had outgrown 12/12.2hh ponies and moved straight onto 13hh, the class is run as a confidence booster if anything and a parent is allowed to stand by a nervous child in the ring as it is a big leap from leadrein to going it alone, the class has been running for 3/4yrs now and everyone has abided by the rules so far and as Roxy93 says some children go straight to FYFR and some still eligable age wise are on ponies to big for the class so miss out altogether, this year we have introduced a Nervous Rider class in the Fun ring where there is no age/height limit in most classes for both Juniors and Seniors
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Post by Philippa on Mar 23, 2015 18:21:32 GMT
We did a Tiny Tots FR one year at Heritage first time ever off lead for my daughter and guess what, the one that won had been 3rd in open small breeds at HOYS with same jockey!! Struth! My daughter couldn't even canter. Sadly its just another class to win for a lot of people. Unfortunately though Tiny Tots classes are purely down to age - I think they are brilliant classes and wish more shows ran them.
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Post by maddiesmum on Mar 23, 2015 18:55:15 GMT
I think tiny tots on age classes would be better, as easier to police! Local to us there are several children in their second full year of FYFR!! At the same shows too, so secretaries accepting entries?? Seems unfair on genuine just off the lead kiddies.
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Post by mcnaughty on Mar 24, 2015 15:43:31 GMT
But what age would you put the 'tiny tots' at? You are allowed to do LR up to 9 years old and also into your 9th year so long as it falls after 1 January so 'tiny tots FR' would be 9 year olds and under??
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Post by the showing register on Mar 24, 2015 16:46:30 GMT
TSR Spring Show early May at Onley has tiny tots lead rein , first ridden and WHP. Ages are 6yrs , 9yrs and 11yrs. Judges have been asked to judge these classes in the spirit of the competition and in previous years they have been lovely classes to watch. The WHP is a new class and has two sections one on the lead and one off. Also intro rider classes for riders new to showing. Schedule available www.theshowingregister.co.uk or send e mail theshowingregister@yahoo.co.uk
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Post by maddiesmum on Mar 24, 2015 18:44:20 GMT
They sound like great classes TSR!
Yes I would put tiny tots at around LR age, at BSPS champs; tiny tots LR 5yrs and FR is 8yrs, it seems to work well!
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Post by chorister on Mar 24, 2015 21:09:10 GMT
Over the years BSPS Area 4B has put on TT F.R classes which have rarely been well supported. However we continue to persevere in our encouragement of children who are making the move from LR to FR. To that end please note our show on Sunday 29th March at Newark Showground has a TT FR class run under BSPS Rules. (No pre-entries). We are also holding a Junior Show on June 20th which has lots of Tiny Tots classes and will have some training at the beginning of the day before the start of the classes proper.
Somewhere else on HG comments have been made with regards to entry fees - we charge what we feel is a correct amount to cover the costs of running a show. Just a thought for those who don't know about show administration, overheads include venue hire, lovely rosettes and sashes,judges expenses, catering etc etc!
For more information about the Area and its shows go to www.bspsarea4b.co.uk
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sarahp
Happy to help
Posts: 9,510
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Post by sarahp on Mar 25, 2015 8:08:04 GMT
Year ago I helped to run an unaff. charity show for 10yo and under, ponies 13.2 and under, yes with showing but also SJ, WHP, Handy Pony and Gymkhana. The rule was that for the whole show, you competed either on or off the LR but there were few if any age of child classes, just height of jumps etc. The children all aspired to ride off the LR as soon as they could, but it would have been very easy to incorporate a FYFR class into this framework, just the only one you could do off lead so would have got the competitors it was aimed at.
I think I have my Grumpy Old Woman hat on this morning!
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Post by catkin on Mar 27, 2015 19:10:50 GMT
FYFR are great, but they are unaffiliated classes, so not as tightly 'ruled'. The BSPS Tiny Tots scenario works well, I think. I am currently looking at schedules for exactly that and have found them at all local area shows, which is great. One, rather stupidly, has the class clash with the RIHS LR though, which think will limit the entries somewhat! The first one we went in this year was truly lovely and quite hair raising all at the same time. Children clumped together, children overtaking, children riding literally on the tail of the one in front. Luckily, they were all suitably mounted and all the children had a lovely time. I think they key to this class is a really good steward who can keep them organised!
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Post by Witless on Mar 30, 2015 15:08:02 GMT
Used to judge at small (very) local shows until one day was asked to judge lead rein and then first ridden. The lead rein class was won by a very nice, but obviously spirited little pony and rider. No problem. Then we moved onto first ridden, into ring came same spirited little pony looking beautiful but this time with a slightly older child aboard, other ponies in class all settled down and off we went, a few seconds later beautiful spirited little pony realised ( I think!) nobody was on the end of a lead rope, cue "spirited behaviour" and then rider bursting into tears as could not handle pony, she was begging daddy I want off I want off. I walked up to her and comforted her, turned to the daddy and said do you want to come into ring to your, clearly upset child, cue daddy verbally using child, obviously child and pony stayed in the ring, assisted by my steward. Carried on judging class and placed other ponies, who by the way all behaved extremely well. I even awarded the aforementioned child a well done rosette. Imagine my horror when on leaving the ring I was acccosted by daddy + mummy + various relatives who informed my that I was clearly blind, mentally handicapped and did not know my parents, as their pony was by far the prettiest in the ring and the other ponies were just ordinary yokes. Aafter I had been rescued by my stewards very large muscular husband, and other interested parties, I made my way to organisers caravan to leave in results and board to be followed in by parents who then started to demand their entry fee back!!!!!! Sufficient to say I have never judged since, and if I do go to a show, keep a very sharp eye out for this family... .....
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Post by springtimes on Mar 30, 2015 15:54:42 GMT
OMG what an awful ordeal I'm glad to say we have rules on show at our show and one is no abuse of either judge, steward or any other competitor or the offender is asked to leave the showground and all points forfeited if a member for that day, I'm glad to say we have really nice competitors though
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Post by delbel on Mar 30, 2015 18:35:11 GMT
The class is a good idea providing the rules are adhered to, it gives kids the opportunity to try fr whilst still on lead rein! It's my understanding that if a pony has only ever been used as an open pony and then moves to lead rein or first ridden it would be eligible for the class as well as novice lead rein and novice first ridden. We stopped doing novice classes in our second year of competing even though we had not under the rules de-noviced, but we had by then had many wins and champs, it really annoys me when people compete in classes they are not eligible to such as restricted classes when the pony had been to hoys the previous year and people entering youngstock when the animal is 4 not 3, so I understand your frustration but fyfr is a good class IMO.
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smalley
Full Member
Horses lend us the wings we lack
Posts: 419
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Post by smalley on Mar 30, 2015 18:59:34 GMT
Maybe there should be a rule than fyfr jockeys cannot have competed in qualifying first ridden/open classes? Genuine first year first riddens would not want to be doing open classes as well, and then they could move up to open classes when they get more competent. Obviously there would still be some who would break the rules but at least you wouldn't get riders doing both FYFR and open FR at the same show.
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Post by bigmama on Mar 30, 2015 20:18:14 GMT
From experience, FYFR should be a low-key, easy-going, fun-type of class to gently introduce children to riding in the show ring by themselves without any undue added pressure. Surely the fact that a little one is achieving this by his or herself on a safe, steady, obedient and mannerly pony is the prize in itself, irrespective of how quality a pony may be or at what stage of competency a little rider is at. It has been known for a judge to put an accomplished FR rider down in a FYFR class if they feel that child is too competent/more suited to FR. To take a step back with perhaps a less quality or older pony is worth every bit of the lessons in showing confidently that little pony will teach a child and they will usually end up the more accomplished rider than the child who is over-faced with a top pony they are unable to handle in FYFR or indeed FR classes So worry not, give your child a bit of time and space to blossom at their own pace in FYFR classes without worrying who or what is competing against them and they too will soon have their turn of being the confident FR rider you are hoping for and if they need to spend a little more time on the lead rein, ie. on bad weather days or busy, spring shows, so be it.
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sarahp
Happy to help
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Post by sarahp on Mar 31, 2015 6:53:04 GMT
Couldn't agree more. I sometimes wonder what is the parents' focus at this stage of showing - their children learning to ride and enjoy their riding, or showing the pony.
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Post by mcnaughty on Mar 31, 2015 15:30:06 GMT
Does FYFR usually include canter?
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Post by janetbushell on Mar 31, 2015 15:42:40 GMT
mcnaughty - as it is not an affiliated class, the rules do vary according to each show. However it usually states "no canter required"
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Post by CarolineNelson on Mar 31, 2015 16:55:33 GMT
Judging (but never quite removing my 'coach's hat!) in a FR jockey's individual show, I ask them if they have learned (practiced) a show. They almost always say yes, but don't ever take that for granted!
If it's a FY-FR, I'm easy about whether they canter or not. Some feel confident to do so and some don't - it doesn't go against them with me if they don't, to be honest. As Janet Bushell says, most FY FR classes are unaffiliated, so not governed by any rules.
As Bigmama and Sarah P said, it is vital that a child enjoys riding. Never mind what colour the rosette is or what pony may or may not be going to HOYS / or straight back to the paddock to get all muddy again.
To me, the First Ridden is the utterly most important showing class a child can ever do. In a big huge strange place - in front of others - all dressed up - pony all smartened up, slippery and shiny.
Let the child do the LR class first so be in the ring with his or her familiar person. Who can give loads of confidence and advice for the class to follow!
Recently whilst judging the Novice section at a well filled BSPS 'Warm-up Show', all my ponies 'wrong legged' it. So I got all the little riders to do another circle on the 'offending' lead. Result? Smiley children, ponies having also learnt that they needed to deliver. Come the 'Open' classes, the partnerships had improved out of all recognition. Result no.2 . . happy children, happy Judge - and a super Champion!!
Whether it be a HOYS Q or 'Little Puddletown-on-the-Hill', if you desire that your child continues ridden showing, don't chastise her or him for making a wee mistake.
Or, whinge on the way home that this child or that child is going to HOYS and shouldn't have been in the class.
They should all be playmates outside the ring, not hear wrong of their friends.
To add: there is only one way that any child will gain experience, and that is to repeatedly do it. If this means 'gate-crashing' (in some people's eyes) a FY FR, then so be it. If they are genuinely FY FR, they are utterly entitled to be in the class.
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Post by bigmama on Apr 1, 2015 14:06:54 GMT
Totally agree with Caroline .... and I too always say that the transition of a rider from lead rein to first ridden is the most challenging and most important for a child and it's parents
Good luck to all Mini jockeys competing at all levels this year ... most of all, learn and have fun
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Post by rosefinch on Apr 2, 2015 16:19:55 GMT
Fyfr classes are brilliant and you can have a tiny very competent jockey or a larger unconfident jockey! Having a 5ft tall 10yr old means I cannot let her do fr classes as she looks ridiculous at the side of some of the tiny jockeys who are sometimes older than her! The fyfr classes tend to be much of a muchness and judged accordingly! Jockey trying the hardest not the ones totally produced!!! Getting your child off the lead and into a ring on there own is extremely difficult and these classes are essential!!! More classes needed xxx
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Post by mcnaughty on Apr 9, 2015 10:14:30 GMT
Thanks Caroline - what a lovely post! My daughter and I went to the PUK Winter Champs and did the LR class as we had qualified last November. We were lining up for the first trot round and a lady lent over the wall and said 'how old ....' missed the last part as it was quite noisy so asked 'the pony?' 'no the child' so I then twigged that she was having a dig! Cheeky so and so! I said 8 (she is 9 in May and might consider taking a birth cert out with me next time!!) and she said 'oh she is tall' so I said 'thank you'. Smiled sweetly and carried on - we didn't qualify for the evening performance anyway but what gives someone the right to do that when you are in a class! We are doing our last LR this sunday at NPS as it is about time we concentrated on the FR - but as Caroline said above, Why is it wrong to do both classes when you are in that difficult transition phase? Pony is new to us last September and what with winter, Christmas abroad and broken ankle I think we might be a bit behind in our FR training!
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Post by CarolineNelson on Apr 9, 2015 13:15:08 GMT
Thanks Caroline - what a lovely post! My daughter and I went to the PUK Winter Champs and did the LR class as we had qualified last November. We were lining up for the first trot round and a lady lent over the wall and said 'how old ....' missed the last part as it was quite noisy so asked 'the pony?' 'no the child' so I then twigged that she was having a dig! Cheeky so and so! I said 8 (she is 9 in May and might consider taking a birth cert out with me next time!!) and she said 'oh she is tall' so I said 'thank you'. Smiled sweetly and carried on - we didn't qualify for the evening performance anyway but what gives someone the right to do that when you are in a class! We are doing our last LR this sunday at NPS as it is about time we concentrated on the FR - but as Caroline said above, Why is it wrong to do both classes when you are in that difficult transition phase? Pony is new to us last September and what with winter, Christmas abroad and broken ankle I think we might be a bit behind in our FR training! Norwalk, do not allow one unnecessary comment from a meddling bystander put you off doing the occasional LR class still. Yes, your daughter will be out of (affiliated)class in 2016 but her birthday is five months into this year - so she has every right to contest LR if you feel she and/or the pony would still benefit. More and more 'wee dots' of three and four are introduced to the LR class these days which will of course make a visual difference to the overall picture and visually make the taller child look even taller. But, to be honest, I far prefer to see real communication, a good partnership between rider and leader (and pony) - working towards the child being able to go it alone, than a 'wee dot' bobbling about having to be held on at times. That is not the essence of the class. I regret I'm very old fashioned, but TBH I don't like to hear of 3 & 4 yo children having 'showing lessons' as such. They should be having FUN on and with the pony at that age. If the child is genuinely enjoying and understanding being dressed up and plonked on a pony hanging on to reins and a saddle handle for a good hour or so then fine, but the keyword must be ENJOY. When judging, one asks the child (as an icebreaker) "how old are you?" - Picture this scenario and yes, it does happen. . . Mini rider looks at Mummy for guidance. Mummy mouths 'three' - wee dot of child says "fweee". Next you ask - "and do you know how old your pony is?" . . . Poor child looks hopelessly at Mummy who mouths "four". Mini tailor's dummy repeats 'fouwer'. You could ask what the pony's name is, but you could be there a long time and shows have timetables. That's not what it's all about. No, I love the chatty child who clearly enjoys the class, loves the pony, can tell you what she/he had for breakfast and equally delights in telling you that the pony was covered in pooo this morning and that Mummy / Auntie / whoever is leading has got a hole in her tights . . . . ;) :D This seems a popular thread and, going by the number of 'likes', mine (above) seemed a popular response. Thank you, peoples! See, some judges are human!
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Post by mcnaughty on Apr 9, 2015 15:06:18 GMT
LOL - thanks again Caroline - I have met some lovely judges over the past 3 years we have been doing LR - I want to meet you next!!! I remember going into a LR class one day and whispering 'smile' out of the corner of my mouth. We walked up the long side and along the short and it wasn't until we were coming back down the other long side that I glanced up and saw my daughter grinning - teeth all on show - in the judge's direction. Well I suppose I didn't tell her how much to smile !! ;-)
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