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Post by ilovenatives on Apr 26, 2015 15:21:01 GMT
Due to the fact that the entries in the plaited classes are normally quite low , does anyone else think it's time for the M and Ms to have separate qualifiers for small and large ? I'm not saying do away with the plaited classes but perhaps just have one section for SHP and one for show ponies instead of split into two height sections . The show I was at yesterday only had two entries in the PP SHP 133cm and under where as the natives had 7 in the smalls and six in the large . But only the champion qualifies . It just seems a shame that some have won their section several times but not qualified . What does everyone else think ? ( please no one turn this into a thread about people doing pretty Polly who shouldn't as that is another subject )
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Post by chloesmum on Apr 26, 2015 15:53:15 GMT
I agree with you. I do feel the PP classes are really diminishing but this may be geographical - in the South numbers for the last few years have been very low and sometimes non existent in the SHP & SP classes whereas in the North I think numbers are greater. Although I would comment that SHP numbers overall are very disappointing this season, maybe it is a cyclical thing? This year the PP Heritage Ridden has been split into small and large breeds which is possibly a good thing but I agree it often seems the LB wins the Championship and qualifies which must be gutting for someone who has won the Small Breeds (several times over as you have said!). Paul Cook has commented on diminishing numbers in PP Classes in this months BSPS Review so always a good idea to email BSPS with observations and suggestions.
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Post by ilovenatives on Apr 26, 2015 17:08:32 GMT
Thanks Chloesmum glad I'm not the only one who feels this way . I am going to email the BSPS about this but just wanted to know how others felt . Might email ponies UK as well about the amateur riders class as well , I know they probably won't be able to fit another section in at the RI to split the amateur class but nothing wrong with making a suggestion . It's another popular class but again hard for the small breeds to get past the cobs etc .
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Post by lorry43 on Apr 27, 2015 7:23:22 GMT
Totally agree, my daughter has won her section in the M & M smalls 3 times, and each time the LB has taken the ticket, what's the point in splitting it if its not a separate class at RI?
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Post by chloesmum on Apr 27, 2015 7:31:41 GMT
This is the first year they have split the class so I do suggest you write to the BSPS so they can review it, won't change this season unfortunately for you but maybe next. Take advantage of a society that requests feedback and listens to members. Good Luck for any further qualifiers x
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Post by ilovenatives on Apr 27, 2015 8:31:52 GMT
How frustrating for you lorry43 , is your pony Wintersend Nimbus ? We haven't planned anymore PP qualifiers this season but will be doing more next season with our new pony . Not worth campaigning seriously with a ginger Shetland who doesn't really extend lol . Let's hope plenty of people contact bsps about this and we might get it changed
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Post by lorry43 on Apr 27, 2015 9:27:25 GMT
Yes Ilovenatives, we have Wintersend Nimbus, I think we have still one more chance, but will contact Bsps with feedback x
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Post by ilovenatives on Apr 27, 2015 11:04:39 GMT
Good luck
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Post by lorry43 on Apr 27, 2015 12:01:32 GMT
Thank you! Lesley also I have emailed them, as you say they welcome feed back!
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Post by lorry43 on Apr 29, 2015 11:55:16 GMT
I Have heard back from Bsps, there is a Council meeting today, Rihs PP is on the agenda, and any changes will go up on website next week!
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Post by Newlandwelshies on Apr 29, 2015 19:53:23 GMT
Good luck with the changes, sounds like a very sensible idea to me. How frustrating for you lorry43, we have a small breed and in your situation i wouldn't be best pleased. Good luck for this season. x
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Post by lorry43 on Apr 30, 2015 8:07:08 GMT
Thank you Newlandwelshies, yes it is frustrating, But at least BSPS are listening to Feed back and are raising the issue! Hope you have a good season! x
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Post by mcnaughty on Apr 30, 2015 13:47:56 GMT
Oh that does sound very frustrating. I'm a bit of a novice at all of this affiliated showing lark so had no idea this issue existed so very interesting. Hope you get the result you want soon. x
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Post by lorry43 on Apr 30, 2015 15:14:52 GMT
Thank you mcnaughty, This class has been run over the years, but this year it was split into Large breeds and Small breeds, I think the purpose was to get more of the small breeds to enter and to qualify ! But you have to win your section and then go into the championship and then you have to come champion to get the ticket! As far as I'm aware only a couple of small breeds have qualified ( Anybody out there that knows any different, I will stand corrected ) If anybody knows which small breeds or how many have qualified I would be interested ? Hope that helps! Good luck for the Season! x
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Post by forester on May 1, 2015 6:33:36 GMT
i believe just the one from bsps area 15a abbie/katie the dartmoor of Zara's
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Post by lorry43 on May 1, 2015 7:27:43 GMT
Thanks Forester, Yes thats the only one I know of so far
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Post by thatboythatgirl on May 1, 2015 8:00:28 GMT
So it will be ok for 12hh ponies to go against 15hh (making them horses?Considering they are not even allowed to gallop together(quite often don't even canter together on the go round? Considering these classes are aimed at those that are not quite good enough for the open classes and possible kids that havent been fortunate enough to ride at shows there whole life so are using it as a gentler way to introduce a child coming out of FPHT in to an open class?
Yes I can see the frustration but they are not the only people, HOYS/Olympia require certain classes you have to be champion. At least in the case of the RI you have 2 possibly 3 other classes you can try for.
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Post by livtom2 on May 1, 2015 8:29:28 GMT
thatboythatgirl These classes are not aimed at those who aren't quite good enough.
The class is an open RI class and the only difference being that you are not against producers, there are still many quality ponies in these classes.
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Post by CarolineNelson on May 1, 2015 8:52:16 GMT
So it will be ok for 12hh ponies to go against 15hh (making them horses?Considering they are not even allowed to gallop together(quite often don't even canter together on the go round? Considering these classes are aimed at those that are not quite good enough for the open classes and possible kids that havent been fortunate enough to ride at shows there whole life so are using it as a gentler way to introduce a child coming out of FPHT in to an open class? Yes I can see the frustration but they are not the only people, HOYS/Olympia require certain classes you have to be champion. At least in the case of the RI you have 2 possibly 3 other classes you can try for. I think, were I to fit the criteria to compete in that classification, that I would feel quite insulted by that comment. To add: in an open Championship, the smaller classes winners compete on equal terms with the larger classes winners (why should they not?). If conditions allow and they are required to gallop, they do so. Individually, in fours - or sent up with caution, having circled to gain space. A sensible, Rule-Book abiding Judge and an experienced Steward can see to this without difficulty. After all, in a Mixed M&M Championship, the Small Breeds ponies compete on equal terms with the Large Breeds ponies (again . . why should they not?). . . . and again, if conditions allow, are required to gallop if requested.
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Post by abigail on May 1, 2015 9:12:05 GMT
thatboythatgirl These classes are not aimed at those who aren't quite good enough. The class is an open RI class and the only difference being that you are not against producers, there are still many quality ponies in these classes. yes exactly , they are still open classes ! I was lucky enough to qualify in this section at the weekend with good company ! You get a lot of very good ponies in the class that although home produced do very well in open classes ! I would hope I can say mine is "good enough" having qualified for hoys, ri and olympia , but at the end of the day it is still down to the judges opinion
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Post by comanchediva on May 1, 2015 9:32:12 GMT
So it will be ok for 12hh ponies to go against 15hh (making them horses?Considering they are not even allowed to gallop together(quite often don't even canter together on the go round? Considering these classes are aimed at those that are not quite good enough for the open classes and possible kids that havent been fortunate enough to ride at shows there whole life so are using it as a gentler way to introduce a child coming out of FPHT in to an open class? Yes I can see the frustration but they are not the only people, HOYS/Olympia require certain classes you have to be champion. At least in the case of the RI you have 2 possibly 3 other classes you can try for. Sorry, I thought these were Home Produced classes. I'm failing to see how being HP makes you "not quite good enough" and having been thinking of trying these classes next year with a 5 year old who is plenty good enough for open classes but has his whole life ahead of him I am very insulted by your post. Being true amateurs AND HP we thought we'd try the RI Amateur classes as well, are they for people who are "not quite good enough" as well?
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Post by maddiesmum on May 1, 2015 9:40:13 GMT
I think it is insulting! It's not that ponies aren't "good enough" it's a platform for those of us that do it ourselves. Besides the fabulous pony in question that hasn't qualified PP yet this year, has qualified open & been to HOYS & RIHS in previous years, so definitely good enough!!!!
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Post by janetbushell on May 1, 2015 9:42:07 GMT
So it will be ok for 12hh ponies to go against 15hh (making them horses?Considering they are not even allowed to gallop together(quite often don't even canter together on the go round? Considering these classes are aimed at those that are not quite good enough for the open classes and possible kids that havent been fortunate enough to ride at shows there whole life so are using it as a gentler way to introduce a child coming out of FPHT in to an open class? Yes I can see the frustration but they are not the only people, HOYS/Olympia require certain classes you have to be champion. At least in the case of the RI you have 2 possibly 3 other classes you can try for. I think you have misunderstood the classification thatboythatgirl As others have said these classes are aimed at those with M&Ms who are not produced by a professional. They are not specifically aimed at children either - as with other ridden M&M classes the animals are ridden by a mixture of children & adults, even in the small breed section and I can assure you that the animals do all canter together on the go round & are also expected to do a gallop in their individual show. Perhaps you are confused by M&M FR classes which do not canter together & are not only governed by breed but also by height of animal and age of rider.
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Post by ilovenatives on May 1, 2015 9:48:09 GMT
Thatboythatgirl although I can see your point if the demand for class isn't there then surely a more popular class should have the qualifiers . The SHP classes you are at least up against the same type even if they are bigger . If the class was one height then at the show I went to last weekend there would have still only been one large in it and there wasn't any 12h ponies at all . Surely if the jockey is not ready for open classes yet at RI level then perhaps leave the qualifiers till when they are . My daughter rides a 10h Shetland and wasn't ready for qualifiers last year so she did more local stuff , went to Equifest and had fun . Why is there this belief that PP is for people not quite good enough for the open classes , anyone who has watched the m and m classes will know this not to be the case . I think it will still be quite hard to qualify for the PP m and m even if split into small and large for my daughter as she would still be up against the Welsh were as in the opens she isn't . At least in the plaited classes there is an age limit but my daughter is mostly against adults . She still goes in and has a go and enjoys it though . Another option could be to keep the height sections for the PP plaited classes but the shp and show ponies be in together but I'm sure whatever ever is decided won't please everyone . Interested to know what was decided at the meeting the other day
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ta
Junior Member
Posts: 153
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Post by ta on May 18, 2015 5:22:53 GMT
I too am a frustrated pretty polly small breed owner who has won 2 pp classes and had two reserve champions so not qualified, both times losing out to a large breed. I understand that for 2016 bsps are planning on the large and small still being split but there will just be one set of placings after the class based on marks, however, in my opinion this will only work and give the smalls a fighting chance if the two sections have different judges. I also suggested a wild card system whereby, for example 2 tickets are offered to most consistent smalls or large (if the situation reverses and judges favour smalls one year!! In our dreams!! ). With regards to sp and shp pp going in together, all the shows I have been to have been big strong classes, often bigger than the open classes and as an owner of a shp I definitely would not welcome being in with the SP's, it will be like the new part bred class all over again!
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Post by CarolineNelson on May 18, 2015 8:55:41 GMT
Home produced or otherwise, if a "Small Breed" pony is of the calibre and is 'presented', it should stand on equal terms to a "Large Breed" contender.
To assume that a Judge (all judges?? please do not generalise . .) would automatically favour a 'Large Breed" pony purely because it came from the Large Breed section is tommyrot!
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ta
Junior Member
Posts: 153
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Post by ta on May 18, 2015 11:58:20 GMT
the percentage of large to small in the final will give a clearer indication but there is clearly a concern because BSPS are taking the time and trouble to resolve what they see as an issue. Sadly one judge we were under was not aware of the importance of the championship and thought our first place was indeed our ticket, and when I raised this with BSPS they confirmed that yes they were aware that not all judges were informed of the new ruling, because in fact they are meant to place to 4th in the championship to enable tickets to be passed down. I am sure BSPS will find a solution
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Post by CarolineNelson on May 18, 2015 15:23:50 GMT
.. Thank you Janet B, Bigmama & Catkin - experienced ladies with common sense!
Naturally, I prefer not to become embroiled in conversations at this time of year, but, surely-to-goodness, if an animal is good enough - and well exhibited, its quality and ability will win through!
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