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Post by Halo on Aug 31, 2015 16:02:07 GMT
After observations over the last season I really feel most of the societies require a clear out of committee and judges... I can't deny over the years they have done an incredible job but new ideas and people who ride now need to move into these places.
The placing of ponies that are so up right in front to the extent that they don't work over their back or heaven forbid actually engage ... But look good :/ Placing of animal because it is a certain combination .....When in fact it was mistaken identity... Is unbelievable .. Some judges are not confident to not give top spot if not their type.... And end up placing to follow the trend to not look inadequate. When you are a rider you can tell what is going forward correctly and not being contained....
Every thing needs a revamp once in a while.....the time is now
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Post by judyh on Aug 31, 2015 16:28:07 GMT
That's all very well to say, but how many younger people are prepared to put in the time and effort? Plus most would rather compete than either steward or judge.
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Post by judyh on Aug 31, 2015 17:01:18 GMT
I don't know what area you are in but I know 3A encourage any younger people who are interested
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Post by the showing register on Aug 31, 2015 17:40:51 GMT
We do really need new blood with new ideas it is what keeps everything fresh and moving forward. Candyapple we run a very friendly judges appointment system that includes training and mentoring and our O panel is a very good place to start your judging career. It only cost £15 and our judges registration process is free no need to be a member so ... dont hold back we want you !
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Post by CarolineNelson on Aug 31, 2015 17:49:46 GMT
I think we need some young blood into the soceities, but when young people like myself want to get involved, we get shunned. I live and breathe showing, but no longer want to compete, so being a committee member/judge would be ideal for me. But there is not always the support or encouragement for younger people. "Shunned". . . . . By whom, may one ask? Show stewards, general helpers, Committee Members at both Local (Area) and National level - all are welcome. It would be a delight if more people like you had the energy to become 'involved'. I can't believe that they are not - that you have been "shunned".
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Post by sageandonionagain on Aug 31, 2015 18:24:58 GMT
I think ALL organisations require a healthy mixture of both. Experience and knowledge is absolutely essential, one cannot lose that. However, senior older judges need to be encouraged to share and pass on their experience. A mentor system would be great, it values the experienced and nutures the fresh.
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Post by kateanne0 on Aug 31, 2015 18:28:29 GMT
I think we need some young blood into the soceities, but when young people like myself want to get involved, we get shunned. I live and breathe showing, but no longer want to compete, so being a committee member/judge would be ideal for me. But there is not always the support or encouragement for younger people. "Shunned". . . . . By whom, may one ask? Show stewards, general helpers, Committee Members at both Local (Area) and National level - all are welcome. It would be a delight if more people like you had the energy to become 'involved'. I can't believe that they are not - that you have been "shunned". I can understand how candyapple feels. I am an NCPA member and last year offered my help to a committee that were not organising very many shows for their area. I didn't even have a reply to my email. Needless to say, I changed areas this year! Some people are so entrenched in their own importance that 'fresh blood' sadly is not something that some established people feel comfortable with. TIN HAT IS FIRMLY IN PLACE TO RECEIVE ALL TORPEDOES!!
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Post by ivansmum on Aug 31, 2015 18:47:20 GMT
We do really need new blood with new ideas it is what keeps everything fresh and moving forward. Candyapple we run a very friendly judges appointment system that includes training and mentoring and our O panel is a very good place to start your judging career. It only cost £15 and our judges registration process is free no need to be a member so ... dont hold back we want you ! I can so very much agree, last year I spoke with TSR as my daughter had recently been appointed to one panel and was probationing on another, they were very supportive in listening to my views about booking the younger people, well done TSR!
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Post by Senior Judge on Aug 31, 2015 23:04:03 GMT
Oddly enough Senior Judges started life as young people who weren't on any judging panels. Through hard work, listening, watching, attending assessments and probationary judging they achieved success and were appointed to a variety of panels. Over the years gaining more experience and either the respect of exhibitors or not! There isn't an easy fix, you have to prove yourself, if the door isn't answered then you keep knocking. Knowledge isn't gained by reading a book or winning a few prizes, it takes years of dedication and hard work. It's like an apprenticeship when you have completed the training and have worked along side others who are more experienced then you are in a position to go it alone. Just because people are young doesn't give them the upper hand on integrity, fair play and honesty. Experience and knowledge takes time to acquire, youngsters need to pick and chose those that can help them become well rounded knowledgeable assessors of horses and ponies!
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Post by Am I Wrong? on Sept 1, 2015 7:00:20 GMT
I am all for new/younger judges starting out, But lately I've been shocked to see (on facebook) how many societies are offering judging assessments/probationary judging!! What do the societies look for in a probationary judge??? A number of show's local to me are now using probationary judges!! I just wonder how these are assessed??? As some of the people who I see who are being picked are only showing and getting beat at local level themselves and they seem very new to the world of showing! With out being blunt! seems any Tom, willy or Harry can turn up! Me and my friends are now avoiding certain show's due to the fact we would be going there to be judged by people who we regular beat on the show scene. And NO! before anyone says I don't want to become a judge myself! I wouldn't dream of going in the ring judging others when there's is bucket loads for me to improve myself.
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Post by Philippa on Sept 1, 2015 7:11:36 GMT
Maybe Candyapple ranting is your very problem? I would expect a younger person to have respect for the societies, to appreciate the work the existing committee members do already and to put any thoughts forward in a professional way with evidence to back it up. Rather than 'ranting at a committee' and making condescending remarks such as 'ridiculous rules these breed societies have' maybe give your mouth a rest, get to know the associations in your area and offer your services, even if it's helping on show days to set up rings, pick up litter, be a ring runner. I don't know of many shows where they have 'too much' help. Start at the bottom where most people do and work your way up. Earn respect. You will never get anywhere by trying to shout your mouth off and tryin to change things single handedly. Good luck and remember, you learn a lot from hearing everything and saying nothing!!
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Post by m1hht on Sept 1, 2015 7:28:03 GMT
Well I know Area 10 would be grateful of any help at their shows if you're near us
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Post by chloesmum on Sept 1, 2015 7:56:31 GMT
Speaking for BSPS Area 14 we would LOVE some 'young blood'! Very proud of our Young Judges who came 2nd at the Summer Champs (Georgia Harvey and Abbie Marshall) we only had 2 in our team and I am sure both will go on to be judges of the future. As the mother of still a relatively Young Judge Chloe came up through training with BSPS and entering the Young Judges, at 25 she went on to panel and worked hard to get her star for SP & SHP. She also went on to BSHA ride panel at 24. We have found rather than being 'shunned' both these societies have encouraged young judges both always ask them to judge at their Championship shows. I stewarded for 2 Young Judges at the Champs last week (both lovely and very professional) and I know there were several judging. Chloe was very honoured to be a ride judge at the RIHS several years ago and this year invited to ride judge at Royal Windsor, on both occassions she has had positive comments from competitors and senior co judges. So I am sorry candyapple if you feel you are being 'shunned', don't give up ask your BSPS/NPS area Chairman how you can develop your judging skills for the future, get involved with stewarding but please don't expect to walk straight on to a panel. Probationing is an extremely important part of the process and a great opportunity to learn and also to get to know other judges. Our showing future depends on 'new blood' and I think most societies recognise and actively encourage this.
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Post by lucynlizzysmum on Sept 1, 2015 8:16:48 GMT
When booking judges, I try to get a mixture of both newly appointed judges and more experienced. If you are anywhere near Cumbria OP we are always looking for stewards at Cumberland Show!
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Post by Halo on Sept 1, 2015 10:13:18 GMT
When suggesting fresh blood, I mean people under age of say 50, who are still able to hear correctly and not write down incorrect marks....or better still be able to add up. Also without sounding rude, to be able to move and watch the best part of a ring I for one have definitely listened and learned over the years, as well as contributing back into the shows by offering assistance....but there does come a time when your ability is no longer good enough...for the prices we pay to enter!! Step away graciously and let others follow on...
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Post by janetbushell on Sept 1, 2015 10:24:43 GMT
When suggesting fresh blood, I mean people under age of say 50, who are still able to hear correctly and not write down incorrect marks....or better still be able to add up. Also without sounding rude, to be able to move and watch the best part of a ring I for one have definitely listened and learned over the years, as well as contributing back into the shows by offering assistance....but there does come a time when your ability is no longer good enough...for the prices we pay to enter!! Step away graciously and let others follow on... Halo - I'm afraid you do sound rude & you seem to be confusing the role of the judge & the steward in your post I think that most people over the age of 50 involved in showing do still have the abilities that you seem to feel are in short supply.
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Post by haggis on Sept 1, 2015 10:50:02 GMT
well said Janet ! didnt see too many Zimmers at all the shows this year
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Post by not amused on Sept 1, 2015 11:14:14 GMT
When suggesting fresh blood, I mean people under age of say 50, who are still able to hear correctly and not write down incorrect marks....or better still be able to add up. Also without sounding rude, to be able to move and watch the best part of a ring I for one have definitely listened and learned over the years, as well as contributing back into the shows by offering assistance....but there does come a time when your ability is no longer good enough...for the prices we pay to enter!! Step away graciously and let others follow on... How rude are your comments I am over fifty and a judge and I can hear very well and add up I have had to work very hard to get to where I am and right from the bottom,perhaps you should try it and it is very hard You seem to think it is your right and some of the younger people state "A wealth of experience"and they are perhaps 22 just for argument sake,I think not So suggest you get off your high horse and work for it like we all have to.Judging is an honour,not a god given right
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Post by chloesmum on Sept 1, 2015 11:15:15 GMT
BSPS do require judges when re-applying for panel each year to sign to say they are fit enough to stand for long periods in the ring and judges are always asked to declare any issues that may impare their ability to judge. I am over 50 and whilst not a judge would like to think that as a steward I am more than capable of standing/walking round the ring all day, can hear judges marks and apart from having to put my glasses on to add them up can also do that without any problems! I stewarded for 2 days at BSPS from 8.00 a.m. to 5.00 p.m on my feet! Without the many (over 50) volunteers at our shows I doubt we would be able to run them! Age is just a number as the saying goes!!!
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Post by conniegirl on Sept 1, 2015 11:26:36 GMT
if the door isn't answered then you keep knocking. Realy? as a young person who wanted to become a panel judge there is only so long you can knock on the door before you get to the point of feeling "well what is the point? they obviously don't want me" so stop trying. I've been there and given up so only judge at local shows now, I always have fab feedback and am generaly always invited back to judge again but have given up with the panels. Having to get 3 recommendations from current panel judges IMO actualy makes it showing more Cliquey and only exacerbates the current problems we have. Judging panels can seem very much a closed shop! I too have offered stewarding and set up help as well as help with things like setting up computer systems, fixing broken schedules etc but have been ignored or rebuffed (sometimes quite rudely too). I personally think that a lot of societies need to drag themselves into the 21st cantury, realise that people now have extremely busy lives and very little time for volunteering so if someone wants to offer their time for free you need to make it easier for them to do so, you need to communicate with them by answering the phone or emails, by providing them with the information needed and by holding more than one judge assessment day in a year as unfortunately most assessment days are on weekdays and getting time off can be very difficult for some people. I think the Young judges competitions are fab but what about those of us who are too old for "young judges" competitions, there seems to be very very little support out there.
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sarahp
Happy to help
Posts: 9,510
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Post by sarahp on Sept 1, 2015 11:44:09 GMT
As for adding up - us oldies did actually learn to add up properly when at school. Many much younger ones I come across can't do anything without a calculator! I don't show judge but do dressage score.
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Post by deafoldbat on Sept 1, 2015 13:44:42 GMT
When suggesting fresh blood, I mean people under age of say 50, who are still able to hear correctly and not write down incorrect marks....or better still be able to add up. Also without sounding rude, to be able to move and watch the best part of a ring I for one have definitely listened and learned over the years, as well as contributing back into the shows by offering assistance....but there does come a time when your ability is no longer good enough...for the prices we pay to enter!! Step away graciously and let others follow on... How rude are your comments I am over fifty and a judge and I can hear very well and add up I have had to work very hard to get to where I am and right from the bottom,perhaps you should try it and it is very hard You seem to think it is your right and some of the younger people state "A wealth of experience"and they are perhaps 22 just for argument sake,I think not So suggest you get off your high horse and work for it like we all have to.Judging is an honour,not a god given right Oi! I am nearly 50 and can add up, take away and hear perfectly well! I can also give some whipper snapper a good clip round the ear if they are rude to me! Anyway, I am sure that if you volunteer your services, any of the societies would be happy for help and as someone else said from there you can work your way up. Youth of Today Eh!!
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Post by robertparkerjones on Sept 2, 2015 17:25:37 GMT
How fortunate that people are able to post anonymously! Finding it difficult to believe that 50 is the age when people lose their ability to function properly and fairly. Some of the youngsters on here could do with some spelling lessons however. I am well over the 50 mark but hope that I can still the job that I still enjoy immensely! I do think that offers of help would be gratefully accepted by many societies and shows. Someone said earlier that if the over 50's withdrew then there would be no shows, societies or in fact anything else! Anyone really wanting to get on would DO just that. If there is anyone who feels that they need support etc get in touch...... sure there's a way! My post earlier in the thread was made under the guest name "Senior Judge"........ must be my age, I couldn't remember my password!!
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Post by chloesmum on Sept 2, 2015 17:35:26 GMT
Love it RPJ!!! Thankfully 'halo' did not add remembering your passwords to the list of criteria for being 'past it'! I am guilty of that as well!!!!
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Post by Mr Sheen on Sept 2, 2015 19:54:45 GMT
How fortunate that people are able to post anonymously! Finding it difficult to believe that 50 is the age when people lose their ability to function properly and fairly. Some of the youngsters on here could do with some spelling lessons however. I am well over the 50 mark but hope that I can still the job that I still enjoy immensely! I do think that offers of help would be gratefully accepted by many societies and shows. Someone said earlier that if the over 50's withdrew then there would be no shows, societies or in fact anything else! Anyone really wanting to get on would DO just that. If there is anyone who feels that they need support etc get in touch...... sure there's a way! My post earlier in the thread was made under the guest name "Senior Judge"........ must be my age, I couldn't remember my password!! My post earlier in the thread was made under the guest name "Senior Judge"........ must be my age, I couldn't remember my password!!
Oh, this has made my day...Thank you
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Post by Pepper on Sept 3, 2015 13:30:22 GMT
I actually much prefer going under a "senior" judge..... The experience and knowledge they bring to the ring, as well as the judging would be a terrible thing to lose. The ones who remember Oliver, Tatlow and Vin in their hey day. When showmanship ruled the day as well as horsemanship
Ones who know about proper conformation, true to type hunters with proper limb, forearms and shoulders etc etc.
Give me those judges any day rather than some of the younger ones, and no disrespect meant, but don't really get "type" - for example the difference between a large riding horse and lwt hunter, an on the leg mwt with no bone and the movement of a riding horse or a "tall" hwt with no bone
They have so much to give, share and teach - I'd prefer to see a buddy system to impart this knowledge (and dare I say craft, manners and etiquette?!) down the generations. I know a super young ride judge who always partners a "senior judge" and their classes are a joy to watch them judge. They actually talk and share and listen to each other - (you also see him turning between horses he views in his phase to watch parts of her riding. I'd like to see more of this
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