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Post by Shocked!!! on Oct 2, 2016 12:10:19 GMT
"The British Equestrian Foundation (BEF) says in many cases normal sized riders are climbing onto ponies that are proportionally too small for their size. But there have also been a number of cases in which overweight riders have arrived at events on horses clearly labouring under their bulk"
If the above piece of script is prompting you to bring this subject of rider weight ratio into question relating to the pony or horse they are riding. Perhaps you would like to clarify what is considered as "normal sized riders", and how can anyone within any organisation be taken seriously when a detrimental word like "bulk" is used to describe any human being!
If you are so keen to press ahead with this idea then showing needs an independant organisation to re-write every rule book, stating a weight that each breed of pony or horse is allowed to carry within all disciplines. Then you might run the risk and watch showing decline even further. You cannot have one rule for one society/organisation/club and not another society. Also who would fund this proposed change? Surely you are not expecting the competitors to pay with increased fees?
At the end of the day, it is not upto a judge in their OPINION to tell anyone that their placing reflects the riders weight. Judges already receive bad press without this being added into the equation. If a pony or horse is labouring in the ring then surely their performance marks would reflect this without adding insults to the rider.
An OPINION is not good enough, it will open judges to possible liable actions from disgruntled parents/families of those who have been singled out and marked accordingly due to the overall appearance which includes something very personal to the majority of human beings, their weight.
For an example: If your child or family member (regardless of age)came to you upset because someone whom they do not know (judge or anyone) had publicly told them in their opinion they were over weight, I bet you wouldn't be too pleased for the humiliation and hurt caused to your loved one.
There maybe concerns over this issue regarding riders weight ratio to pony or horse, what is considered acceptable and what isn't. But passing the buck onto a judge and their opinion is not good enough and unacceptable.
Education and clinics may hold the key to this were the subject can be introduced in a subtle way with constructive advice without humiliation.
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Post by comanchediva on Oct 2, 2016 13:09:51 GMT
I'm usually a fan of the Telegraph but that's one of the worst and most misinformed pieces of journalism that I've ever read.
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janet
Full Member
Posts: 502
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Post by janet on Oct 2, 2016 13:12:08 GMT
I Don't know why this issue of weight has suddenly become on the agenda, if a judge doesn't like the picture presented put it down the line, judges have enough to do without telling someone they are too fat, which I can't see happening as they get enough abuse at the moment, no show will be able to afford a vet to oversee the show ring, don't you think there are a lot more animal welfare issues than people riding in the showing who may be a couple of pounds overweight? e.g. slaughter houses, overbreeding of stock, animal abuse, I read stories everyday on FB which are shocking animal abuse enough to be ashamed to be human, lets sort these out first Once these issues have been tackled which they never will be then we could tackle the picture the judge does not like!!
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Post by monsoon on Oct 4, 2016 21:55:22 GMT
Native ponies have been bred for generations to carry an adult in most cases, what is happening , it sounds like adults are being discriminated against. Novice ponies sometimes need educating in the ring before a smaller rider can take over, and also sometimes a smaller younger rider does not have the knowledge to take a pony in the ring, especially stallions which have an minimum age restriction, how the hell are ponies going to be educated. Also any adult riders with a disability who is riding a small breed, and perhaps thats all they can ride is going to be heavily penalised for riding. Totally unfair and I totally agree with gill wales comments. It really sounds like a vendetta to get adult riders off small breeds, but hang on children have lead rein, first ridden, and junior ridden classes where they don't compete against adults. Its their choice to compete against adults in some classes, and so they know that before entering. Surely having competition makes riders up their game to try and in some cases beat the adults. Children I have taught have found great pride in beating adults and an achievement.
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Post by maxandpaddy on Oct 7, 2016 19:12:34 GMT
Well I've just watched some footage of the sp warm up at HOY's, well done to the "littleys" warming in their own ponies around the arena, sadly an awful lot of not so little doing the job !!! ( some do look huge to be on top of such fine small ponies, it makes you cringe a bit )
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Post by kateanne0 on Oct 7, 2016 19:41:18 GMT
Well I've just watched some footage of the sp warm up at HOY's, well done to the "littleys" warming in their own ponies around the arena, sadly an awful lot of not so little doing the job !!! ( some do look huge to be on top of such fine small ponies, it makes you cringe a bit ) I read the HOYS ruling on unsuitable for mount - from what I recall the stewards or officials of the show had the right to ask people they considered as unsuitable for mount to dismount. If that occurs, then a vet would check and if vet considered person as unsuitable size for mount they would not be allowed to get back on. It would be interesting to learn how many times this occurred. Max and Paddy your footage might be of use to TSR for the debate on suitability for mounts if it shows that there were people too big for pony still 'getting away with it' at HOYS!FOR CLARITY THE PUBLISHED RULINGRiders who are deemed to be of an unsuitable weight for their mounts could be asked to dismount at the Horse of the Year Show (HOYS) – and the vet’s decision will be final. Competitors qualified for HOYS (5-9 October) have been informed that their suitability will be assessed at the show. A spokesman for organisers Grandstand Media said “equine welfare is of paramount importance”, hence the decision to assess riders this year. The move follows a push from across the equestrian industry to ensure horses’ welfare is not compromised by the weight of those riding them. A Grandstand spokesman said: “All riders must at all times be of an appropriate size and weight for the horse/pony being ridden.” This includes horses and ponies being warmed up or exercised anywhere at HOYS, including exercise areas, collecting rings and vehicle parks, at any time of day or night. The spokesman added that HOYS reserves the right to “take further action” against any exhibitor or professional producer who “permits any person (including an exhibitor and/or professional producer) to ride a horse or pony when the size and/or weight of the rider compromises the welfare of the horse/pony being ridden”. The welfare issue will be determined by the HOYS veterinary team. “This will include vets, stewards and officials having the authority to require the rider to dismount to enable a member of the on-site veterinary team to determine whether or not in the opinion of the vet, the rider is of an appropriate size and weight for the horse/pony,” the spokesman added. “The decision of the vet shall be final.” Read more at www.horseandhound.co.uk/news/hoys-crack-riders-unsuitable-weight-599529#fTCCg1PtOm38EBlC.99
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Post by maxandpaddy on Oct 7, 2016 19:51:10 GMT
its not my footage its a friends so I cant really share it
I'm a defender of more experienced people warming in for small children if there's a risk element involved, as i've said before my daughter does work sometimes for a producer and yes warms in small ponies for small children, BUT she weighs less than 8 stone, she shows the ponies the environment/anything that may scare them and also warms them in. BUT some of these jockeys do look too big for the job and thats what makes me cringe a bit. Experience is one thing but I dont like to see a pony looking over-mounted or almost scared of who's on top.
Very tricky touchy subject to police
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Post by showpony7632 on Oct 11, 2016 12:52:27 GMT
Do most judges not already penalize for 'over big' riders on their ponies?? I understand that perhaps the fact that very large adults getting on the tiny lead rein ponies is not acceptable but even the welsh A's were bred to carry fully grown men up and down mountains. As far as I can see, it's just going to lead kids to eating disorders. Can anyone see my point???
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Post by thatboythatgirl on Oct 11, 2016 13:57:58 GMT
a friend that was at HOYS on the Saturday said how adults had been pulled off of the lr/fr ponies in the warm in the top spec
SHP warm up was mainly done by kids/older kids rather than adults in the topspec, the outdoor warm up well that was a different matter as we commented on what was the point in sending the warning out if it wasnt going to be acted on
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Post by kateanne0 on Oct 11, 2016 16:00:35 GMT
a friend that was at HOYS on the Saturday said how adults had been pulled off of the lr/fr ponies in the warm in the top spec SHP warm up was mainly done by kids/older kids rather than adults in the topspec, the outdoor warm up well that was a different matter as we commented on what was the point in sending the warning out if it wasnt going to be acted on I should imagine due to the times of warm up in the arena only HOYS officials would have been around to police the area, including outdoors areas? HOYS declaration on the weight issue should have been a proving ground of enforcement at top level; if it can't be adequately policed there, then large showgrounds will probably be an impossibility. This will be the problem! It's all very well bringing in 'rules' but they have to be seen to be enforced across the full spectrum of showing! If new rules do come into 'official' play, they will have to be stewarded in all areas of the show ground. Paying particular attention in the pony warm up areas behind the lorries and anywhere else that people will go to get out of visibility. Across the horses it will be the same, however, there lies the difficulty in rider weight ratio v horse carrying capability and possible discrimination. Whatever the outcome, it is going to be difficult to police; I don't believe in making rules just for the sake of making them. Education will be the key together with sensitive handling of very obvious weight issues that cause genuine concern for the welfare of the horse.
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Post by the showing register on Oct 11, 2016 16:05:00 GMT
a friend that was at HOYS on the Saturday said how adults had been pulled off of the lr/fr ponies in the warm in the top spec SHP warm up was mainly done by kids/older kids rather than adults in the topspec, the outdoour warm up well that was a different matter as we commented on what was the point in sending the warning out if it wasnt going to be acted on Interesting. I did not get to see any collecting / riding in areas as was too busy on the stand. However if that was the case it will no doubt have been noticed or will be bought to HOYS attention. I am hoping for some feedback from HOYS and competitors to add to the info for the 4th.
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Post by the showing register on Oct 11, 2016 16:13:42 GMT
a friend that was at HOYS on the Saturday said how adults had been pulled off of the lr/fr ponies in the warm in the top spec SHP warm up was mainly done by kids/older kids rather than adults in the topspec, the outdoor warm up well that was a different matter as we commented on what was the point in sending the warning out if it wasnt going to be acted on I should imagine due to the times of warm up in the arena only HOYS officials would have been around to police the area, including outdoors areas? HOYS declaration on the weight issue should have been a proving ground of enforcement at top level; if it can't be adequately policed there, then large showgrounds will probably be an impossibility. This will be the problem! It's all very well bringing in 'rules' but they have to be seen to be enforced across the full spectrum of showing! If new rules do come into 'official' play, they will have to be stewarded in all areas of the show ground. Paying particular attention in the pony warm up areas behind the lorries and anywhere else that people will go to get out of visibility. Across the horses it will be the same, however, there lies the difficulty in rider weight ratio v horse carrying capability and possible discrimination. Whatever the outcome, it is going to be difficult to police; I don't believe in making rules just for the sake of making them. Education will be the key together with sensitive handling of very obvious weight issues that cause genuine concern for the welfare of the horse. I agree it is a very difficult thing to police but it has to start somewhere. I have had an interesting conversation with BHS Welfare officers at top level and it looks as if we might be able to offer a training qualification and offer it to show organizers so shows that are interested in doing this could have a trained welfare officer on their committee as most do not have vets. It would then cover some of the other things that people bring up such as bits and lungeing. Once this is out in the open and discussed I am sure the issues will melt away as people make other arrangements. Tomorrow I will have a Professional Producers / professional riders survey available so they can put their point of view the link will be on here and facebook / our web site and as normal will be anonymous unless you want to put your name.
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Post by kateanne0 on Oct 11, 2016 16:23:01 GMT
I should imagine due to the times of warm up in the arena only HOYS officials would have been around to police the area, including outdoors areas? HOYS declaration on the weight issue should have been a proving ground of enforcement at top level; if it can't be adequately policed there, then large showgrounds will probably be an impossibility. This will be the problem! It's all very well bringing in 'rules' but they have to be seen to be enforced across the full spectrum of showing! If new rules do come into 'official' play, they will have to be stewarded in all areas of the show ground. Paying particular attention in the pony warm up areas behind the lorries and anywhere else that people will go to get out of visibility. Across the horses it will be the same, however, there lies the difficulty in rider weight ratio v horse carrying capability and possible discrimination. Whatever the outcome, it is going to be difficult to police; I don't believe in making rules just for the sake of making them. Education will be the key together with sensitive handling of very obvious weight issues that cause genuine concern for the welfare of the horse. I agree it is a very difficult thing to police but it has to start somewhere. I have had an interesting conversation with BHS Welfare officers at top level and it looks as if we might be able to offer a training qualification and offer it to show organizers so shows that are interested in doing this could have a trained welfare officer on their committee as most do not have vets. It would then cover some of the other things that people bring up such as bits and lungeing. Once this is out in the open and discussed I am sure the issues will melt away as people make other arrangements. Tomorrow I will have a Professional Producers / professional riders survey available so they can put their point of view the link will be on here and facebook / our web site and as normal will be anonymous unless you want to put your name. Brilliant news! If this comes about (BHS) the training qualification could then be incorporated into Diploma's and Degree's that students are embarking on. Perhaps it could also be incorporated into the BHS Showing Grooms and other certificates that are on offer. I do believe that education in all matters horsey will be the key to improvements. Well done TSR
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Post by inconsistent on Oct 12, 2016 8:03:53 GMT
I know of several people who were asked to dismount at HOYS in the warm up Top Spec and I think it caused a lot of upset as it was so inconsistent. I understand the targeting of the LR/FR ponies but in one case a small adult was asked to dismount from a 138cm pony which in theory she could have been competing herself in the P/B. I witnessed several large child riders who were competing who were as big if not bigger that some of the small adults warming up. I think it was wrong of HOYS to introduce this at such a late stage of the season so people had no time to prepare perhaps recruiting older children to ride in. Also HOYS needs to consider it's warm up times and facilities. Several of these very young children 11 and under would have had practice times after 9.00 p.m. and then at 5.00 am in the morning, if we are considering welfare what about child welfare in terms of sleep? HOYS will also need to provide more outdoor warming up areas if this is to be enforced again so a permanent lunge area is provided. I think TSR is right that this needs to be administered by trained people but I am still concerned that it will be based on opinion and at worse personal bias. It was interesting to note that I only heard of producers being targeted.
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Post by kateanne0 on Oct 12, 2016 9:27:59 GMT
Everyone's interpretation of large differs. Large weight wise or large height wise?
Lots has been said about this topic but Snowman made a very good remark regarding saddles and fit; I also commented on the same subject.
In theory a small adult could ride a 138 part bred pony, however, as adults we round out in the rear end, so saddle is important. I agree with Snowman's comment that if the persons bottom doesn't fit the saddle, that means not riding on the cantle, then that person is not suitably mounted because there would be a welfare issue of possible back pain for the horse caused by riding on the cantle; this also applies to children.
For those of us with larger rear ends, choice of saddle is paramount. The saddle may not be an ideal saddle for the show ring, in terms of slimness/neatness, however, a saddle with a larger soup spoon (round) shaped seat is better suited for a larger person. In a very short coupled horse, even this may be a difficulty. Remember the saddle should fit the horse but adjustments in styles are available.
Weight of the rider is a very sensitive issue that will need to be addressed correctly without fear of retribution (possible discrimination proceedings) and in the case of children safeguarding and prevention of possible eating disorders becoming rife in pony classes.
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Post by the showing register on Oct 12, 2016 10:08:48 GMT
The survey for Producers and Professional Riders is on this link. If you feel you must take part and you are not either please tell us in the comment box so we can get a clear picture. A further survey once we have asked for questions will take place in November and be for everyone. : www.surveymonkey.co.uk/r/Y9KPB3S
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Post by Survey on Oct 12, 2016 10:19:34 GMT
Just been to answer the survey but what a leading first question, how on earth can this have any validity when the questions are not impartial.
I really think you need to think again on this and also start to make some clarification about what exactly you think is an issue; no m&m riders were challenged so at least hoys vets are sensible about this. If the issue is adults warming in small thin legged show ponies then state it so. If it isn't then state the actual issue and not this generic blurb as its all very generic and it's caused a lot of drama and upset particularly amongst perfectly fine small breed m&m jockeys and now it seems the agenda has changed....
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Post by the showing register on Oct 12, 2016 10:37:40 GMT
I really tried to make them impartial but they have to cover the topics and you have a comment box if you think they are not plus you can add any question you like at the bottom. It is so hard to word and I am mindful of all the comments on here and have tried to incorporate some of the concerns.
The debate is crystallizing into mainly outside the ring concerns but the final question is about suitably mounted in the ring bearing in mind many classes are now open to any age riders (this is a fact not my view). No where does it say anything about MM.
I dont know who you are and it is a difficult job trying to give every side a voice. You may be surprised that I dont have a view and rules will be decided by others not me. I am hoping probably in vain not to take too much personal abuse but I expect it is inevitable. I stood for the whole of HOYS on the TSR stand and only 1 person came and expressed any reservations to my face and we had a very interesting discussion.
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Post by monsoon on Oct 12, 2016 11:06:33 GMT
Surely, if this is draft rule, how could it be used at hoys. Feel sorry for anyone who was targeted and had to get off at hoys, surely it any new rule should be brought in beginning of any season, not when everyone has qualified to go to hoys. Feel so sorry for anyone who was asked to dismount after qualifying, spending money to get to hoys, hoys taking levy fees
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Post by inconsistent on Oct 12, 2016 11:27:24 GMT
I see TSR comment re this being introduced across a broad spectrum and if this is a BHS Welfare issue then I would hope it would not just be about showing. I would expect this to include show jumping; eventing and all other disciplines as well. On this note whilst a huge fan of the Prince Philip Mounted Games I was very surprised how big some of these children at HOYS were this year on their ponies. I know the PC have an age limit on riders and thought they had a weight/height limit as well, so many had legs that nearly reached the floor and these ponies are going at speed unlike a lot of show ponies! If this is truly a 'welfare' issue than all competitive disciplines must be included.
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Post by hmmm on Oct 12, 2016 13:33:09 GMT
Well I'll tell you one thing for sure, it's all certainly keeping TSR in the headlines isn't it???
The cynic in me says that all this stuff, as with other things that TSR has tried to 'push', is designed to give TSR a big voice and big role alongside other showing societies and breed societies that have decades of history and experience behind them.
The first question on the survey just serves to highlight that TSR have no real professional experience of or expertise in objective research and unbiased public consultation, but all credit to them for not caring about that and simply bulldozing forward with promoting themselves by whatever means they can. Very canny.
By engaging with them all the time on social media, WE, that is myself included, are granting TSR a voice, giving credence to their position, and promoting their public profile, to the detriment of our established breed societies and long-running showing societies. Really, really canny of them. Untold damage has already been done to the market for our small native breeds because people are afraid to buy them for fear of reprisals about rider weight/size, and the reduction in opportunities to qualify small breed stallions for HOYS (instigated by TSR even though they will claim that it's all GM's doing) will do huge damage to breeders.
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Post by heidi1 on Oct 12, 2016 14:35:09 GMT
Inconsistent I can assure you that the rules for PC mounted games are very stringent over size of riders. There is a strict weight limit against the sizes of ponies riders are permitted to ride and on the entry form you have to declare the size of pony being ridden and the weight of the rider when dressed to compete. Putting tin hat on slightly I also find it interesting that showing is the only discipline where it is permissible for the pony to be worked in other than by the person competing it and in fact this led to my daughter when aged 8 refusing to show anymore following a clinic where she was not allowed to participate until either her section A had been ridden in by someone else or lunged before she got on. This was the same pony she did everything on for PC including ODE and Hunter Trials strangely enough all without the need for an adult or an older child to ride him first.
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Post by inconsistent on Oct 12, 2016 15:07:37 GMT
I thought there were strict guidelines, just a comment that had some of them been on show ponies of the same size I have no doubt they would have been told to dismount with legs nearly reaching the ground, as some people were told it was not just about weight but height and overall oicture!!! How objective is that! As for riding in showing is certainly not the only discipline where this happens, as for the clinic you attended I think my reaction would have been the same as yours! What a stupid request to make to you and your daughter! To get back to the debate hmmmm makes some really good points and this is why Breeders and societies like BSPS and NPS MUST not sit back and be complacent. No one wants a 'welfare' issue but our breed standards MUST be maintained not watered down, I also fear this is the end of many of our small native breeds being shown as stallions and open ponies. They will all become First Riddens or Lead Reins. It is important that breeders and those who have been involved with all breed types including Riding Ponies stand up and put their thoughts forward.
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Post by howhasthishappened on Oct 12, 2016 15:10:52 GMT
Several things have come to mind having read this thread in its entirety.
The Donkey Society have a maximum weight per height rule - It may be worth investigation on how this is enforced
The total weight a pony is carrying should include the saddle ( some are heavier than others ) and rider kit, as Flee pointed out your kitted out weight is far more than naked in the morning on the bathroom scales
The horse/ponies amount of bone has a huge influence - this needs taking into account
And personally apart from the warming up issue, which I agree is a problem, for me any rider be they big, small, short or tall can ride appallingly bad and unbalanced causing a pony to "go badly".. and the opposite is true if you ride well, in the correct shoulder/hip/heel position, balanced and with light hands..... There are more issues IMO of riders sitting badly as if "on a sofa" pushing their bottoms and weight onto the loins of a pony.
This is an education issue, a parent supply's the mount not the child, educate the parent, do not destroy the enjoyment of the child because mummy cannot see that things are not right...
This is a total minefield and whenever a human "opinion" is involved without the evidence to back up said opinion it will cause nothing but problems....
Short of coming up with a total weight per showing category and putting this in the rule book for all to see pre-competition I cannot see this working...
I sincerely hope whoever agrees to go ahead with this is prepared for being responsible for the potential humiliation caused to the competitor either child or adult.
Finally in all the years as a judge at all levels I have never thought a rider too heavy. A bit tall yes, badly ridden definitely, even abused on occasion by cruel behavior. I am sincerely happy I no longer judge....honestly how have we got to this, this is surely not a new problem as we have been riding for centuries!?
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Post by monsoon on Oct 12, 2016 16:04:37 GMT
So right, the market for small breeds is already being affected, , not all small breeds are suitable for lead rein and first ridden so what is going to happen to those ponies,
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Post by the showing register on Oct 12, 2016 16:17:11 GMT
I thought there were strict guidelines, just a comment that had some of them been on show ponies of the same size I have no doubt they would have been told to dismount with legs nearly reaching the ground, as some people were told it was not just about weight but height and overall oicture!!! How objective is that! As for riding in showing is certainly not the only discipline where this happens, as for the clinic you attended I think my reaction would have been the same as yours! What a stupid request to make to you and your daughter! To get back to the debate hmmmm makes some really good points and this is why Breeders and societies like BSPS and NPS MUST not sit back and be complacent. No one wants a 'welfare' issue but our breed standards MUST be maintained not watered down, I also fear this is the end of many of our small native breeds being shown as stallions and open ponies. They will all become First Riddens or Lead Reins. It is important that breeders and those who have been involved with all breed types including Riding Ponies stand up and put their thoughts forward. I have written to all the societies and breed societies asking for opinion, info and anything else they have to say. Several have responded and will be at the meeting on the 4th. Once this consultation is over it is up to individual societies to decide not TSR we are only putting forward everyones view points... would you rather something was done without consultation or that you have an opportunity to speak even as an anon ! A point of interest to small breed breeders is that although there was quite a few adults on the small breeds at HOYS the judges considered that no rider was unsuitably mounted and indeed adults did very well so I think the panic amongst small breed riders is unfounded. What I am hearing is far more about SP riding in etc
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Post by inconsistent on Oct 12, 2016 16:46:55 GMT
That is good to hear TSR however what a shame your conference is on the same day at the Welsh Pony and Cob awards as many Welsh pony breeders and exhibitors will not be able to attend and voice their opinions. A great shame as this does affect the A's and B's.
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Post by the showing register on Oct 12, 2016 17:22:06 GMT
That is good to hear TSR however what a shame your conference is on the same day at the Welsh Pony and Cob awards as many cWelsh pony breeders and exhibitors will not be able to attend and voice their opinions. A great shame as this does affect the A's and B's. I also am very sorry that this is clashing and if anyone has any specific question or a statement they would like read out then I will make sure it happens. Dates are pretty difficult it is always something and I think the breed aspect has been overcooked the SP people have been pretty quiet in comparison to the mm riders .... the small breeds were really vindicated at HOYS they made a big statement.
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Post by bigmama on Oct 12, 2016 17:53:05 GMT
Whatever happened to moving on to a bigger pony when child outgrown the current one? Surely those who are concerned about a child developing eating disorders can see that there is another option, ie. larger pony .. this is what folk did in yesteryear
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Post by Reseach Expert on Oct 12, 2016 20:55:27 GMT
Hmmm love your post and totally agree, I would very much welcome BSPS, all The Breed Societies, NPS and societies from other disciplines to wade in here.
I don't think that weight/height issue should be considered as a massive welfare problem, I would be grateful to understand where this 'welfare problem' has originated from or has it been self made by TSR - I have listed below what I consider to be greater welfare problems but TSR doesn't seem to want to tackle the list below - I wonder why?
The lengths people go to win a piece of red ribbon:
The vertebrae that are damaged from being stood in tack all day tied in, this causes arthritis and muscle fibrosis - irreparable and painful damage Equines locked in a dark stable most of their lives seeing nothing so they 'pop' when taken into the in hand ring Isolation as they are too precious monetarily to turn out or talk to another equine - these are social animals Withholding water and tied up all night to flatten them for their class Non equine drugs such as cow sedatives and Ritalin administered in the attempt to get past the drug testers - not that we have seen much in evidence of drug testing except at the BSPS major competitions Mouths cut and damaged deliberately to ensure the head never comes above the bridle Obesity has improved but still has a long way to go Steroids to give a 4 year old that plumped up look so they can compete at HOYS and not look immature Feeding arsenic to create a shinny coat
And we wonder why most show animals are finished by the age of 10 and some at worst die prematurely
The above in my opinion is far more horrific than the weight/height vs size of equine.
And just to finish
Firstly, whilst we were at hoys working in we overheard a child on their pony in the Topspec arena tearfully begging their mother to get on the said pony as the pony was very lively and the child was scared, the mother refused and gave the child the reason which was this draft ruling - do you think that this child and family enjoyed showing at hoys? The mother was not too heavy but was a little tall for the pony - so what, she was not going to cause distress to the said pony by riding it but distress was caused by her not riding it as the pony was clearly looking for competent direction and reassurance.
Secondly, the M&M classes - 2 very well respected knowledgeable international judges - look at the placings - it speaks volumes - TSR stop trying to control judges opinions by forcing through a ridiculous ruling under the pretext of welfare
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