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Post by ponymum on Nov 14, 2016 10:40:27 GMT
Albeit a rumour - but has anyone else heard that from December PUK will be no more? Obv this raises questions about memberships etc for the Rihs young riders classes.
Anyone?
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Post by janetbushell on Nov 14, 2016 11:09:57 GMT
All the RIHS qualifier dates for 2017 are on the website
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Post by gillwales on Nov 14, 2016 11:28:03 GMT
lets face facts, there are far too many showing societies/ breed societies , making competeting very expensive these days, and it can be very confusing for those that want to start showing, it must put some people off of having a go or moving up the next run of the ladder. We need to have these bodies coming together now so there is one set of rules, one pannel of judges with the momentum in promoting showing for all. Personally I feel that the NPS should take the lead as this is the one body that covers all aspects from breeding, showing in-hand and under saddle, it should also be more pro-active in other equine disciplins , i.e. dressage, show jumping, eventing etc. This way it would give the pony world in particular a far greater voice and would streamline everything. I know it will not happen, but I can dream
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Post by ponymum on Nov 14, 2016 11:32:21 GMT
If only gillwales xx
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Post by thatboythatgirl on Nov 14, 2016 12:57:22 GMT
Equifest released there provisional timetable last week and one ring on the Friday is down as Ponies UK; is that meant to be there summer show? So i don't think its gone yet and I feel the RIHS young riders is all that is keeping it a float
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Post by haggismarmite on Nov 14, 2016 12:59:51 GMT
Nothing there for us any more but they've put their winter champs 2017 schedule and judges online at bury farm with the RI qualifiers for the Jrs and bsha hacks.
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Post by chloesmum on Nov 14, 2016 13:23:40 GMT
Interesting comments gillwales. Roger Stack gave a very interesting and of course amusing talk at our BSPS Area AGM on Saturday and one of his many topics was the fact that there are too many societies and the fact that more keep springing up! As he said there is BSJA; BDS so why not a Bristish Showing Society his suggestion one for horses (BSHA) and one for ponies (BSPS) he also commented that this is unlikely to happen at present due to personalities. He also made some interesting points about money in the bank and who the societies are really serving.
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Post by CarolineNelson on Nov 14, 2016 14:43:45 GMT
Interesting comments gillwales. Roger Stack gave a very interesting and of course amusing talk at our BSPS Area AGM on Saturday and one of his many topics was the fact that there are too many societies and the fact that more keep springing up! As he said there is BSJA; BDS so why not a Bristish Showing Society his suggestion one for horses (BSHA) and one for ponies (BSPS) he also commented that this is unlikely to happen at present due to personalities. He also made some interesting points about money in the bank and who the societies are really serving. With all due respect to a fine gentleman, from Mrs Chubb's quote above, Mr Stack has not in his suggestion, considered / encompassed the vital Breeding "Umbrellas" and therefore, in-hand showing classes to showcase the Breeder's product before it/they are broken - and indeed once they have retired, in the case of show Brood mares. Naturally I refer to the National Pony Society (and the British Native Pony Societies, the AHS etc.) - and Sports Horse GB, which was, in days of yore, known as the HIS (Hunter Improvement Scheme). Charitable Societies dating back many decades; in the case of the NPS, to 1893. All, Breeding PIOs. The above-mentioned two showing Societies /Associations are not. It is perhaps a tad insular to only think of "Showing" in a RIDDEN capacity.
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Post by chloesmum on Nov 14, 2016 17:50:55 GMT
Obviously this was just a short part of his talk and I would not want to suggest he was suggesting doing away with all other societies, he did infact mention NPS and Sports Horse and the Breed societies which he felt would still sit within the fold so to speak. I think from a showing point of view he was suggesting a more all encompassing society and questioning whether all will survive in the future with costs of competing and holding shows continually increasing. It was just some food for thought and a fascinating look back over how showing was and is now.
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Post by equifest on Nov 14, 2016 18:37:14 GMT
To the best of my knowledge Ponies (UK) is NOT dissolving. We definitely have a ring reserved at Equifest for Ponies UK for 2017 - but this will not be the Summer Champs. The schedule for the Winter Classics at Bury Farm is already on the P(UK) website - www.poniesuk.org.
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Post by CarolineNelson on Nov 14, 2016 22:57:52 GMT
Obviously this was just a short part of his talk and I would not want to suggest he was suggesting doing away with all other societies, he did infact mention NPS and Sports Horse and the Breed societies which he felt would still sit within the fold so to speak. I think from a showing point of view he was suggesting a more all encompassing society and questioning whether all will survive in the future with costs of competing and holding shows continually increasing. It was just some food for thought and a fascinating look back over how showing was and is now. Thank you for qualifying your 'quote' in the original post. Obviously, when one is not there, it is virtually impossible to absorb a true picture of someone's Talk from some 'loosely quoted' sentences!
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Post by the showing register on Nov 15, 2016 7:59:07 GMT
One of the biggest challenges facing societies is the huge gulf between the affiliated and unaffiliated sectors. No doubt Roger was talking about what I would term the elite riders who are aiming for RIHS HOYS etc and on a lesser level society championship shows.
We have estimated that 45000 riders show at unaffiliated level on a regular basis at show series such as High Horse Showing, Sunshine Tour etc. These riders would still not be engaged with a 'super ' society and consider £10/20 as a max membership subscription and £10 or less entry fee. We need to consider this vast base and stop thinking in only elite terms much as it goes against the rub in some quarters. Breeders are beneficiaries directly and indirectly of this sector.
Sorry this has nothing to do with PUK but I do think they used to try and reach out beyond the affiliated classes
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Post by thatboythatgirl on Nov 15, 2016 8:12:15 GMT
PUK do not know where they sit in the showing ranks anymore. Once they rivaled the BSPS who still hold some stature in the world of showing and as much entries are declining to win the blue riband or champion of champions still means something
In contrast PUK now have dual qualifications with equifest and require no membership for you to compete at there winter/summer championships and seem to almost be targeting the lower levels of showing but want to still be classed with the "elite" showing societies.
I was never a PUK person it never appealed to me I think as I kid I always had so much fun at BSPS champs that no others really mattered
In regards to NPS are they not struggling any more? As isnt that why the riding pony stud book got moved to weatherbys a few years ago
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Post by CarolineNelson on Nov 15, 2016 13:28:15 GMT
PUK do not know where they sit in the showing ranks anymore. Once they rivaled the BSPS who still hold some stature in the world of showing and as much entries are declining to win the blue riband or champion of champions still means something In contrast PUK now have dual qualifications with equifest and require no membership for you to compete at there winter/summer championships and seem to almost be targeting the lower levels of showing but want to still be classed with the "elite" showing societies. I was never a PUK person it never appealed to me I think as I kid I always had so much fun at BSPS champs that no others really mattered In regards to NPS are they not struggling any more? As isnt that why the riding pony stud book got moved to weatherbys a few years ago [/b] The NPS has been back on its feet for some time now. Yes, the 'management' of the British Riding Pony Stud Book was moved to Weatherbys rather than continue to employ separate staff "in house" but it most definitely remains the NPS British Riding Pony Stud Book. Thatboythatgirl, if I may suggest such, you seem to have quite strong opinions but are not necessarily factually correct. Societies, Associations (and independent show committees) really welcome practical help and support so, perhaps you'd consider offering your services. It's a great and generous way of 'putting something back' to the industry as opposed to simply nit-picking. It was good of 'Equifest' to make the supportive comment regarding the current status of Ponies (UK). Ponymum, regarding Memberships, Along with numerous colleagues I have, by request from the Association as is annually usual, paid my "judges' sub for 2017.
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Post by thatboythatgirl on Nov 15, 2016 14:36:24 GMT
PUK do not know where they sit in the showing ranks anymore. Once they rivaled the BSPS who still hold some stature in the world of showing and as much entries are declining to win the blue riband or champion of champions still means something In contrast PUK now have dual qualifications with equifest and require no membership for you to compete at there winter/summer championships and seem to almost be targeting the lower levels of showing but want to still be classed with the "elite" showing societies. I was never a PUK person it never appealed to me I think as I kid I always had so much fun at BSPS champs that no others really mattered In regards to NPS are they not struggling any more? As isnt that why the riding pony stud book got moved to weatherbys a few years ago [/b] The NPS has been back on its feet for some time now. Yes, the 'management' of the British Riding Pony Stud Book was moved to Weatherbys rather than continue to employ separate staff "in house" but it most definitely remains the NPS British Riding Pony Stud Book. Thatboythatgirl, if I may suggest such, you seem to have quite strong opinions but are not necessarily factually correct. Societies, Associations (and independent show committees) really welcome practical help and support so, perhaps you'd consider offering your services. It's a great and generous way of 'putting something back' to the industry as opposed to simply nit-picking. It was good of 'Equifest' to make the supportive comment regarding the current status of Ponies (UK). Ponymum, regarding Memberships, Along with numerous colleagues I have, by request from the Association as is annually usual, paid my "judges' sub for 2017.[/quote] I asked a question in regards to NPS and PUK summer show, neither are societies I have anything to do with other than the riding ponies passports with NPS which is why I know it got moved as at the time they where struggling as a society. So not nit picking And before making assumptions on people I do give back to grass roots of showing to try and help as most people started off at there local riding club and if no one gives back to them there will be no local shows left. Our local rc struggles at is. We deal with BSPS only because you have to for RIHS; other than that I wouldn't deal with them as I find it all far to clicky the reason why I no longer go to there champs. I'd rather support our local agricultural shows (quite often BSPS classes with very few in) to try and keep the showing aspect of these shows alive
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Post by thatboythatgirl on Nov 15, 2016 14:42:49 GMT
And I also thought it was good of equifest, I also thought that tagging their summer show onto the the end of last year's equifest would boost its numbers saddlely it did not; their autumn finale was also poorly attended even. They are trying bit for some reason people fell out of love with them and with purse strings tightening pepole will pick and choose what societies to join.
We would not have done there summer show if membership had been required as we have no need to join. Joining one society is bad enough cost wise on a limited budget
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Post by pipandflo on Nov 15, 2016 20:58:22 GMT
I refused to go again after pony broke on the day entries closed and I lost £300+ as absolutely no refunds said Davina
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Post by bellasmum on Nov 16, 2016 10:12:53 GMT
I think people tend to forget that the members of these 'elite' societies as TSR put is, are actually the owners of these 'clubs' so like anything else in life, if you want to join the 'club' you become a member! The members pay for the society to be run, they are the OWNERS!
I think people forget that actually some people don't want to do the level that a requires a membership - they are happy doing what they want, are often not of the level that is required to attain placings in classes – shoot me down if you wish – and we already have a way into a higher level with the Search For A Star qualifiers, that have been won by some wonderful horses, who easily go on to open classes, and provide the membership societies who do RI and HOYS with some great young judges and jockeys/producers – which carry on our hobby .
PUK I have seen as always an in-between – we have sunshine tours, TSR, high horse society and then moving on to PUK as maybe it should be, I was always thrilled to qualify for the summer championship there – but it got too pricey – and so we have the wonderful equifest that has taken over – I find it hard to fathom why some of these new socieites bang on about membership for all, and same rights for everyone, and one society for this and that, yet have introduced themselves to do exactly the opposite of what they are asking for – why do another society??? So now we have Equifest, Sunshine Tours, and TSR to qualify for at our local shows, I'm sure I have missed others out – I stand in the ring and judge and have endless pieces of paper to give out – where before there was one, PUK – shame its disintegrated the way it has
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Post by gillwales on Nov 16, 2016 10:44:02 GMT
I also think that people need to remember that many of the "showing " societies make money for people, they are in fact businesses, if nothing else provide a wage for those that run them.
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Post by catkin on Nov 16, 2016 10:57:54 GMT
I think that the hard facts are that these days you probably need a USP to survive and many of the societies have perhaps moved away from the original remit. The way I see it:
* NPS an umbrella society for the breeds and 'owners' of the BRP stud book. They also do lots of welfare work and have been extremely encouraging of the ridden native breeds when there was a real need for this. They are good at encouraging ponies to progress up the ranks e.g. Picton. * BSPS - the children's competition society that has grown to include intermediates and heritage. * P(UK) - I think the USP WAS competition for all and training too * Breed socs - 'owners' of their stud books, promotors and custodians of their breeds * TSR - I think they have found a niche in engaging, educating and encouraging the masses, filling a hole perhaps that had been ignored by others? * Others - Sunshine, Royal London etc (I really am not sure of the USP) * Equifest - to me is 'just' a show - a very popular show. Nothing wrong with that of course
I know this is a bit blunt in assessment and I am sure I have missed some points out. And of course, I haven't covered horse showing socs. But, the issues that seem to be driving discussion are:
* we don't have one showing voice to represent us to the rest of the equestrian world * competitors get annoyed at having to join many socs IF they want to compete at certain shows * everyone gets confused and annoyed at different rulings for different socs
So, what do we do?
Well, we choose to compete or not to compete, so we do have that amount of freedom. We definitely need POIs and stud books. But to genuinely help us, it would perhaps make sense if some of the shows we aspire to qualify for e.g. HOYS and RIHS actually didn't allocate particular classes to particular societies. Having thought about this, I don't see the need. They have their own rules, they issue qualifiers. I know this would mean a huge loss of income to some societies, but does this really matter? Wouldn't this lead to people joining societies because they actually want to go to their championship shows/enjoy reduced rates at them AND perhaps more importantly, support those they really believe in. I realise we would have to think about judge lists and lots of detail and a bit controversial I know, but just a thought!
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Post by bellasmum on Nov 16, 2016 11:20:15 GMT
I also think that people need to remember that many of the "showing " societies make money for people, they are in fact businesses, if nothing else provide a wage for those that run them.
There is believe me a LOT ELSE to do – and actually lots of it is voluntary – the bigger the society the bigger the wage bill in the office – no society can run unaided despite what we may be led to believe – the days have changed, judges and stewards used to do it for the love of the 'sport' and never charge a penny for their time or any expenses – but this has changed and of course expenses have to be paid, times are hard for some, a younger generations is coming in who know no different, petrol and diesel is expensive, so when people moan about how expensive it it, its all very relative to the level, the higher to go the more you have to pay, its the way of the world – you want to eat in Marks and Spencer, you pay more, you want to shop in Waitrose, you pay more, you want to shop in Lidl you pay less – you want to go to the Sunshine tour championships you pay £100 (just saying) you want to go to HOYS you pay £500 this is the way it is!
The real problem is that EVERYONE WANTS TO GO TO ROYAL INTERNATIONAL OR HORSE OF THE YEAR SHOW AND NOW OLYMPIA – they don't look or aspire to anything else! Its just the culture we are in – and luckily for those who don't compete at the highest level, they still have SFAS and now TSR – so they still have something – they don't have to be a member of anything they don't have to trawl across the country they don't have to pay levies - so as far as I'm concerned life is fair!
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Post by ponymum on Nov 16, 2016 14:38:10 GMT
So In answer to my original post - Puk is still running in 2017.
Thanks to everyone for your imput , I think we will have to debate the whole society memberships etc in January when we all have to part with 2 or 3 lots of fees !!
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bugs
Junior Member
Posts: 121
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Post by bugs on Feb 2, 2017 8:00:23 GMT
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Post by ponymum on Feb 2, 2017 10:26:03 GMT
This was kind of along the lines of the whisper I heard , which I was told would happen by Christmas ....so Puk what next?
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Post by chloesmum on Feb 2, 2017 11:10:39 GMT
Interesting and the late, great Roger Stack did predict this at our AGM just before his sad death. Which I believe is why he also said that he felt it was important for societies to collaborate more to survive. I have huge respect for Julie Templeton and it will be interesting to see what does happen to PUK which as she says was Davina Whiteman.
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Post by katieg14 on Feb 3, 2017 0:23:53 GMT
I first went to PUK champs in 2006 at the age of 10 with my 12hh shp/whp. We were so privileged to be there it was just amazing! The thing we remember being the best was the evening performance. To get in a PUK evening performance was just out of this world. They use to have a clap reader for the gallops in every championship. I was 3rd in the open 12hh SHP class with over 20ponies. These days entries aren't like this at most shows let alone PUK anymore. We never did the summer champs again as it was just way too expensive and even though it was the best show we'd been too then the price was far too much! It would be great if PUK could get back to this but don't know if this will be possible but can only hope!
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Post by the showing register on Feb 3, 2017 9:47:12 GMT
It seems that Julie T is interim Chair and Carol Cooper will take it on in April ?
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