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Post by Confused.com on Jul 29, 2017 16:52:20 GMT
I wonder if anyone could clarify the rule regarding a judge that is judging HOYS, riding in a qualifier? In one of the sections the judge that is judging the finals at HOYS has competed in more than one qualifier this year, On reading the HOYS rule 7.1, it reads to me that this is definitely not allowed?
I've contacted Hoys on more than one occasion and have been advised they will respond, months ago!
I'm hoping IF this is a rule break, it will be dealt with accordingly as HOYS are very strict with competitors breaking the rules!!
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Post by the showing register on Jul 30, 2017 5:21:24 GMT
Please forward your information to info@theshowingregister.co.uk
If you are correct it is a breach of the rules but honestly nothing can be properley looked at unless you send in details etc. It will be treated in confidence.
There has been so much very unpleasant stuff going on this season everyone needs to calm down a bit
GC
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Post by Confused.com on Jul 30, 2017 6:26:16 GMT
Email sent
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Post by the showing register on Jul 30, 2017 9:30:31 GMT
Thank you everyone aware
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Post by Shouldn't happen on Jul 30, 2017 11:11:05 GMT
Please forward your information to info@theshowingregister.co.uk If you are correct it is a breach of the rules but honestly nothing can be properley looked at unless you send in details etc. It will be treated in confidence. There has been so much very unpleasant stuff going on this season everyone needs to calm down a bit GC The Showing Register do always seem to be very proactive. Sadly it does seem this year has been a "vintage" one for rule breaks, unrest, bullying and general unpleasant behaviour. I wouldn't say it's a case of people needing to simply calm down, more a case of documenting correctly and societies stepping up. This surely is the only way to stomp this behaviour out and get matters on an even keel. So do write to your societies and action ( if proved correct) will be taken.
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Post by waspblue on Jul 30, 2017 13:17:24 GMT
Got to agree, has been a terrible year, not just for the things mentioned, but also the fact that we appear to have gone back to judges placing highly ponies that are overweight, over bent and over height, as well as ponies with bad manners and poor basic schooling. We have registered BD and it's been great, amazing results and pony and jockey / trainer properly rewarded for beautifully ridden tests, with nice rosettes, sheets that explain everything for each part of the test and points awarded when scoring over certain percentage. To watch the progression has been so refreshing and satisfying. The money I've saved I'm taking to a bookie to put bets on certain ponies that I'm 99.9% certain will win particular classes at HOYS this October...how sad and thoroughly disillusioning is it to feel this way! Will be interesting to see if I win some money back!!! Xx
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sarahp
Happy to help
Posts: 9,510
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Post by sarahp on Jul 30, 2017 16:50:53 GMT
I've always shown on the flat really to show off what I've bred and preferred doing dressage - can I add to the advantages individual times given so no juggling of classes or standing in lines for hours either. I now have two home bred ponies being ridden for me, they've done the odd flat class, one qualified Picton Final, but mostly aiming at WHP and doing dressage, arena eventing, hunting and whatever else comes along, much more fun for ponies, riders and me watching! They both helped parade hounds at shows too recently. And yes, they are both collecting points for the WPCS Performance Awards along the way!
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Post by janetbushell on Jul 30, 2017 18:33:27 GMT
Please forward your information to info@theshowingregister.co.uk If you are correct it is a breach of the rules but honestly nothing can be properley looked at unless you send in details etc. It will be treated in confidence. There has been so much very unpleasant stuff going on this season everyone needs to calm down a bit GC The Showing Register do always seem to be very proactive. Sadly it does seem this year has been a "vintage" one for rule breaks, unrest, bullying and general unpleasant behaviour. I wouldn't say it's a case of people needing to simply calm down, more a case of documenting correctly and societies stepping up. This surely is the only way to stomp this behaviour out and get matters on an even keel. So do write to your societies and action ( if proved correct) will be taken. I think you might be surprised by how "pro active" other societies are when people do "document correctly", when dealing with some of the points you mention, but they simply do not post on this type of forum. I do however think that complaints on social media, by their very nature, tend to be one sided, although this certainly does not mean they may not be valid. However they cannot be dealt with without the complainants putting things in writing, to the correct governing body & adding their name. Everyone competing, judging or stewarding has access to the rules and all societies take rule breaking seriously.
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Post by janetbushell on Jul 30, 2017 18:40:27 GMT
Got to agree, has been a terrible year, not just for the things mentioned, but also the fact that we appear to have gone back to judges placing highly ponies that are overweight, over bent and over height, as well as ponies with bad manners and poor basic schooling. We have registered BD and it's been great, amazing results and pony and jockey / trainer properly rewarded for beautifully ridden tests, with nice rosettes, sheets that explain everything for each part of the test and points awarded when scoring over certain percentage. To watch the progression has been so refreshing and satisfying. The money I've saved I'm taking to a bookie to put bets on certain ponies that I'm 99.9% certain will win particular classes at HOYS this October...how sad and thoroughly disillusioning is it to feel this way! Will be interesting to see if I win some money back!!! Xx In your opinion, in the classes you have watched and/or competed in, but possibly not in the opinion of others on the day or in the class - showing is, and always will be, subjective (however rules most certainly are not) I am glad you have been successful competing in BD, but just one small point I would add, 50% of the available marks are not awarded for conformation & breed type.
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Post by Confused.com on Jul 31, 2017 8:49:51 GMT
The Showing Register do always seem to be very proactive. Sadly it does seem this year has been a "vintage" one for rule breaks, unrest, bullying and general unpleasant behaviour. I wouldn't say it's a case of people needing to simply calm down, more a case of documenting correctly and societies stepping up. This surely is the only way to stomp this behaviour out and get matters on an even keel. So do write to your societies and action ( if proved correct) will be taken. I think you might be surprised by how "pro active" other societies are when people do "document correctly", when dealing with some of the points you mention, but they simply do not post on this type of forum. I do however think that complaints on social media, by their very nature, tend to be one sided, although this certainly does not mean they may not be valid. However they cannot be dealt with without the complainants putting things in writing, to the correct governing body & adding their name. Everyone competing, judging or stewarding has access to the rules and all societies take rule breaking seriously. I can confirm that the correct channels were followed to no avail. I was beginning to think that I was wrong? I have now been advised that I wasn't wrong and that it is bieng dealt with accordingly.
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Post by janetbushell on Jul 31, 2017 10:01:28 GMT
That's good to hear confused.com (my reply was not really for you as your OP stated what channels you followed - I was responding to shouldn't happens post regarding other societies)
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Post by the showing register on Jul 31, 2017 13:55:44 GMT
I think you might be surprised by how "pro active" other societies are when people do "document correctly", when dealing with some of the points you mention, but they simply do not post on this type of forum. I do however think that complaints on social media, by their very nature, tend to be one sided, although this certainly does not mean they may not be valid. However they cannot be dealt with without the complainants putting things in writing, to the correct governing body & adding their name. Everyone competing, judging or stewarding has access to the rules and all societies take rule breaking seriously. I can confirm that the correct channels were followed to no avail. I was beginning to think that I was wrong? I have now been advised that I wasn't wrong and that it is bieng dealt with accordingly. Glad to hear that.
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sarahp
Happy to help
Posts: 9,510
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Post by sarahp on Jul 31, 2017 14:29:06 GMT
janetbushell - I'm happy to show IH where 100% of the marks are for breed type, conformation and movement but prefer to do dressage when ridden where 100% of the marks are for the performance, done with more thought and depth than in flat ridden classes! No offence intended to flat ridden judges, just that a dressage test takes longer and is marked movement by movement, as I'm sure you know, rather than the judge having just a short show to look at and one overall mark to give.
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Post by janetbushell on Jul 31, 2017 16:07:26 GMT
janetbushell - I'm happy to show IH where 100% of the marks are for breed type, conformation and movement but prefer to do dressage when ridden where 100% of the marks are for the performance, done with more thought and depth than in flat ridden classes! No offence intended to flat ridden judges, just that a dressage test takes longer and is marked movement by movement, as I'm sure you know, rather than the judge having just a short show to look at and one overall mark to give. My comment was to waspblue which is why I quoted her I have no problem with anyone's preferred discipline!
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Post by Makes me laugh on Aug 1, 2017 10:43:19 GMT
What about judges judging best friends? there is a picture just posted today on social media (facebook ) by the ride judge of last year's coloured class at hoys She's stood there with the champion of the coloured section Please can someone stop all this corruption within chaps
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Post by bellasmum on Aug 1, 2017 12:39:43 GMT
So what!!!! people are allowed to be friends!!! Jeez!!!!! and please remember there were TWO judges at HOYS judging the CHAPS classes!!!!
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Post by waspblue on Aug 1, 2017 21:00:09 GMT
Got to agree, has been a terrible year, not just for the things mentioned, but also the fact that we appear to have gone back to judges placing highly ponies that are overweight, over bent and over height, as well as ponies with bad manners and poor basic schooling. We have registered BD and it's been great, amazing results and pony and jockey / trainer properly rewarded for beautifully ridden tests, with nice rosettes, sheets that explain everything for each part of the test and points awarded when scoring over certain percentage. To watch the progression has been so refreshing and satisfying. The money I've saved I'm taking to a bookie to put bets on certain ponies that I'm 99.9% certain will win particular classes at HOYS this October...how sad and thoroughly disillusioning is it to feel this way! Will be interesting to see if I win some money back!!! Xx In your opinion, in the classes you have watched and/or competed in, but possibly not in the opinion of others on the day or in the class - showing is, and always will be, subjective (however rules most certainly are not) I am glad you have been successful competing in BD, but just one small point I would add, 50% of the available marks are not awarded for conformation & breed type. I had these 'potential' winners confirmed by quite a number of other people, who also were of the same view and well in the know, so to speak. It'll be interesting to see how right we ALL are. I've found a bookie to take my bet, I'm sure my winnings will come in very handy to spend in the HOYS shopping hall after the relevant classes. Sorry to be such a realist but someone has got to see through all the ----!!
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Post by ThrillsNSpills on Aug 1, 2017 21:38:49 GMT
I sincerely hope that, come October, all you people with 'inside' knowledge post these winners in advance. Then we'll see how genuine these complaints are.
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Post by Philippa on Aug 2, 2017 6:16:50 GMT
I sincerely hope that, come October, all you people with 'inside' knowledge post these winners in advance. Then we'll see how genuine these complaints are. Well Waspblue isputting her money where her mouth is and taking her saved entries to the bookies so is obviously very confident. Hope you get lots of spends back 😂😂
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Post by waspblue on Aug 2, 2017 7:54:52 GMT
I sincerely hope that, come October, all you people with 'inside' knowledge post these winners in advance. Then we'll see how genuine these complaints are. Well Waspblue isputting her money where her mouth is and taking her saved entries to the bookies so is obviously very confident. Hope you get lots of spends back 😂😂 Thanks Philippa, I certainly am, I've seen enough to know that I'm pretty certain, my sources are right over one particular animal that's for sure or I wouldn't be putting any money on it. I only like a safe bet as I can't afford to lose any money on one that isn't! Will pm you xx
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Post by the showing register on Aug 2, 2017 8:47:52 GMT
I think we should consider the various reasons why someone thinks an animal is going to win a class
A. They think the judge is going to do 'a favour 'to a person they have a connection to ie close friend,business etc.This suggests that the pony is actually inferior and is undeserving of its win and in other circumstances would be down the line if it is of the required standard is there a problem ? I am asking you !
B. The pony has won during the season and is considered a strong contender and is the judges type or goes in a way the judge likes
C. The pony has not won a great deal ( but qualified ) and is likely to perform well and is judges type etc as above
I have to add that judges are highly unpredictable at times and you can go in the ring thinking yes I really like that it is my winner and then be very disappointed with its show or its added a splint or something since you last saw it.
On a seperate note TSR are shortly going to be running a survey regarding a Charter for judges and exhibitors. Showing cannot continue to be the dark place it has become for many people this season. We have never has so many complaints many not actual rule breaking but what I would call pushing the boundaries of integrity ... all of which are being dealt with.
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Post by chloesmum on Aug 2, 2017 9:22:31 GMT
I agree TSR - I could probably have a 'safe' bet on certain ponies not necessarily winning but being highly placed at HOYS why? 1) They are the real 'in form' ponies who if they go well SHOULD be up there - some of the best in the country. I love our ponies but don't have rose coloured glasses and can also appreciate others in the same class. 2)They have good form under the judges, so again if they go well are very likely to be in the placings. and if they are and they have gone well then good luck to them, but sometimes judges throw up a curve ball and sometimes those that are 'predicted' don't go well and are judged accordingly.
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Post by confused too on Aug 2, 2017 9:59:26 GMT
Is Mrs Jill Godden who judged the show ponies the same Jill Godden who own/breds rhos ponies that a certain producer has and has qualified a pony for the cuddy this year?
I would of thought this would of put anyone who has had any pony in his production illegible to compete under her?
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Post by Rockstar on Aug 2, 2017 19:54:14 GMT
Is Mrs Jill Godden who judged the show ponies the same Jill Godden who own/breds rhos ponies that a certain producer has and has qualified a pony for the cuddy this year? I would of thought this would of put anyone who has had any pony in his production illegible to compete under her? Yes it is Jill of the Rhos stud who judged at NPS. The pony which I presume you are talking about belongs to someone who hasn't been a client with John (Harvey - he is aware I'm posting this) for nearly 3 years. Whilst you may not like it, no rules have been broken and knowing Jill I can vouch for her being 'straight' and would by no means have been swayed by any prior knowledge of any pony or rider in front of her. As an aside, John is exceptionally conscientious when it comes to putting ponies under certain judges. I could give you many examples of this, including at HOYS itself so it saddens me to see his name (it's obvious who you were referring to!) dragged into these sorts of conversations.
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Post by Confused too on Aug 2, 2017 20:28:55 GMT
Do people not understand what this '?' means. It seems to be lost alot on here
It indicates a question first one asking if it was the same jill godden
The 2nd about eligibility of a competitor
Did anyone say that the result was dodgy no I didn't it was a fairly judged class which makes a change to some this year. Did I suggest she swayed the result NO. Did I slag either of them no I asked a question to clear things up. Rather than slag people off like seems to be the trend on here
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Post by gillwales on Aug 2, 2017 20:44:06 GMT
You cannot compete under a Judge who you have worked for in the last 2 years. It is fair enough to say when a rule has been broken but please be certain that this has happened or you could find yourself on the end of a court case even if you do not post under you own name, it can be traced, so I suggest you write an apology.
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Post by I know on Aug 4, 2017 11:10:41 GMT
Well I'd like to put money on who will win and be 2nd in the Ds at HOYS Thai year!!!! I'll be very rich, just like three of the Hoys tickets awarded at NPS yesterday!
They were ALL predicted months ago....low and behold, they were correct!!!!
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Post by I know 2 on Aug 5, 2017 11:04:53 GMT
And one of the qualifiers was not sound,what are these judges looking at,oh I know Sponcers and faces
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Post by I know also on Aug 5, 2017 21:00:02 GMT
Totaly agree.. one of the hoys classes at nps was a total joke yet again.. ponies who did as asked totally thrown down the line up yet ones that messed up their shows awarded top marks.. total utter farse.. last season we do in these classes!
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Post by waspblue on Aug 6, 2017 8:24:06 GMT
I agree TSR - I could probably have a 'safe' bet on certain ponies not necessarily winning but being highly placed at HOYS why? 1) They are the real 'in form' ponies who if they go well SHOULD be up there - some of the best in the country. I love our ponies but don't have rose coloured glasses and can also appreciate others in the same class. 2)They have good form under the judges, so again if they go well are very likely to be in the placings. and if they are and they have gone well then good luck to them, but sometimes judges throw up a curve ball and sometimes those that are 'predicted' don't go well and are judged accordingly. I don't mind at all an 'in form pony' doing well and having a good season, as long as it is going correctly and has excellent conformation and straight movement coupled with good manners and being true to its breed type. What I do however object to is the ones that are very obviously none of these things and are overbent, overweight and over height, then plait or dish badly, add to this changing legs, wrong legs and being disunited throughout go rounds and individual shows, all of which point towards poor schooling and lack of strength and balance, but are then winning classes and worse still championships, as they are produced and ridden by the right faces and names. This is especially annoying for other competitors whether professional or amateur, who can see these blatantly obvious faults and whose pony has very obviously gone well and done what has been asked of it and they know has good conformation. What on earth are these judges looking at and thinking of, I thought we were supposed to be getting away from fat, badly schooled and ill mannered animals, but this season has shown that the reverse is now once more true. The pony in question will be a good media exercise for its producers diversity from one type of animals to another and will make for a great H&H cover and story in the HOYS results pages! However the real 'in form pony' that has been doing well and going nicely as well as being true to type etc will potentially be overlooked due to the others connections etc and this is what is annoying people and why more and more are going off to do other disciplines as they are at least fairly judged in them and don't feel they are wasting time effort and money when Class winners have already been chosen before anyone has even left the house. Showing has always been about not what, but who you know, but now is becoming a total farce and a joke due to the sheer obviousness of the results. Very, very sad as winning is rarely feasible without connections nowadays.
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