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Post by Hounded on May 27, 2010 13:34:18 GMT
HOYS are considering changing the qualifcation requirements. See Horse & Hound.
This will restrict the show to those who are wealthy, don't work or work for themselves and also professional producers.
Many competitors will be unable to afford to qualify if this stupid idea is intruduced.
Those with good animals capable of qualifying but on low incomes will no longer be able to go and this will lower the standard of animals competing.
Also from a spectators viewpoint the show will become boring to watch and dominated by a few big owners and producers which happens to an extent already.
Come on HOYS make your show accessible to everyone.
Play fair and consider the welfare issues of making young animals risk thier limbs on hard ground, taking kids out of school, travelling animals when there is no need to and making people use more fuel...hardly a politically correct, ecofriendly resolution.
In these of rising income tax the show will work against the competitor and the country if it introduces this system.
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Post by Trot-on on May 27, 2010 13:40:04 GMT
I dont get horse and hound... what are they looking to change it to?
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coco7
Junior Member
Posts: 114
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Post by coco7 on May 27, 2010 14:24:40 GMT
I haven't read it yet, so can't comment much but how do they measure who is wealthy enough to compete?
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Post by sallie on May 27, 2010 14:31:57 GMT
and here is me thinking the "buzzwords" are Inclusion and opportunity, come on HOYS RETHINK!!!!
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Horse of the Year Show Office
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Post by Horse of the Year Show Office on May 27, 2010 15:08:19 GMT
Dear All Further to today's article in the Horse and Hound please find a copy of our response which is due to printed in next weeks edition. Sir, I write in response to ‘HOYS ‘points’ idea gets rider thumbs down (page 10, 27 May). Our decision to review our system has been seen as being positive amongst the groups that we have currently canvassed. The elements printed within Horse & Hound last week are part of a ‘bigger picture’ where we are currently looking at the entire qualification system, which includes the geographical spread of the qualifiers. The points raised are ones that are currently being reviewed, i.e. travel/welfare and cost to competitors. Of utmost importance to us is that as we support societies, shows and competitors for the greater good of the sport. We are intending to arrange focus groups to include representatives from competitors, societies and shows where all will have the opportunity to put forward their comments on the current qualification system and potential alternative qualification systems that are in consideration. Should people be interested in attending the focus groups we will be placing further information on our website www.hoys.co.uk shortly, with the intention of holding the focus groups at the end of June 2010. Places will be limited and selections will be made randomly from those that express an interest in attending. We recognise that there is a passionate interest in, and I stress, any potential changes that we may make and want to ensure the equestrian community are part of the process. Helena Pettit Managing Director Grandstand Media
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Post by lancs on May 27, 2010 16:58:07 GMT
So what are the intended changes ?
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Post by thecremellosociety on May 27, 2010 17:01:32 GMT
they planned on making you collect a certain amount of points to go, hence more shows etc etc rather than just the qualifying at one like you do now, thats how a iread it anyway, bad for horses being trudged up and down to clock points i think.
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Post by heath on May 27, 2010 17:26:22 GMT
Can I just reply to Helenas sensible attitude to listen to everyone before they make any changes and bring a new point to the table by asking if they will consider the Hoys qualifiers in the North.
Its great to have them at Cheshire, Lincoln and Royal Highland but they all fall within 5 days of each other and it would mean travelling the legs off them to try to do all 3. Plus if your pony/horse or you the rider are out of action for whatever reason that week you have missed all the the main Northern chances to get qualified.
Please consider keeping them in the North and spreading them over a few weeks even if it means changing the shows they are allocated to. I feel this is very important from a horse welfare point of view as no doubt there will be some who try to do them all.
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Post by arrogorn on May 27, 2010 18:19:51 GMT
It is an amatures dream to qualify and compete at HOYS.
It is already expensive enough with qualifiers costing on average £35 per class. Often with an 'average' 2-3 hour travel. With fuel, stabling, enterence to shows, along with the affliation fees competing at a limited number of qualifiers is expensive enough for those doing it on a budget with the current situation.
We plan our shows and this year aim to fit four qualifiers in. Those range from 50 mile the closest to 200 miles that I can justify travelling to.
The added expense of having to enter those shows months in adavance therefore if we were lucky enough to qualify we would not go to the later shows and therefore be out of pocket due to no system of refunds (accept that shows have to make money etc)
It is unfair to those genuine amatures that get their chance to shine at the most prestigious horse show amongst the professionals and have their day in the limelight taken away from them.
It is unfair on the horses welfare, you will see youngsters dragged out, up and down the country show after show which will only shorten their showing career, and imagine the effects showing week in week out will do to the animals.
New ideas such as a reserve list for horses stood 2nd or highest overall combined marks from one class to step into a horses place that could not or had no intention on going could be adopted. Wildcards could also be introduced etc.
Please HOYS dont turn take the dreams of amatures away and turn this into a producer/professional event.
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Post by whinnie on May 27, 2010 18:56:40 GMT
I personally think they need a geographical look at the qualifiers. They need to look at the british map and then allocate them according to distance starting from the four ends ie north of scotland south of England wales and Ireland, The they need to allocate them Central Scotland, North of England, East of England and Cornwall Area. After that equally around he British isles.
Well thats what i think anyway that way competitors get an equal chance. I do think there are too many on at the same time in the same week around the same areas. I personally think they are not equally dished out. I think if they sorted the map out then looked at who run shows in these areas and then decide how to reallocate them, Maybe this would work!!!!!!!
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Post by lancs on May 27, 2010 19:07:15 GMT
Why is there a need for a points system or any change to the way you qualify ? I agree qualifiers could be better spread around the country but I don't see that anything else needs to change.
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Post by hollycane on May 27, 2010 19:43:15 GMT
I think it's interesting to have this review and that some thought has gone into how a change in the system may work. However I've been judging HOYS and RIHS qualifiers in 16 sections for quite a while and I have consistently made the point that there are often not enough entries in these classes to either pay for holding them or take the best horses through to the final. Rather than changing the system we need to ensure there going to enough entries to put any kind of qualifying classes on at all. The cost of diesel and the extra levy with no chance of getting it back in prize money is bad enough. However it looks like we have an opportunity to be part of the focus groups so please make your voice heard. At least there is an opportunity to have your say, so make sure you do.
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Post by hiccup on May 27, 2010 21:01:01 GMT
Some classes may be easier to qualify in than others but have we ever seen a really bad class at HOYS? No The qualification system is tough enough as it is. Perhaps all organisations with classes should agree to pass tickets to 5th. This would allow the amateur exhibitor the chance to qualify and would promote good feeling in sections which can be subject to facey judging. The majority of us can no longer afford to travel far and often. If tax is hiked up it will hit competitors even more. We are not a bottomless pit and although prize money at HOYS is better than it was it still doesn't cover entries and stabling let alone fuel. I agree with Katie Jerram that we do not want to be encouraged to drag young horses all over the country and risk damaging them or in foal brood mares competing in the Cuddy. Welfsare is a very real issue. Look at the spread of qualifying shows maybe but if some classes at different ends of the country clash it's not a problem. Don't change it so the pro's can dash around and snitch all the tickets. Give us all a chance to compete at HOYS.
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Post by frankyboy on May 27, 2010 21:21:51 GMT
THINK THE GEOGRAPHY OF QUALIFIERS SHOULD DEFINATELY BE LOOKED AT CONSIDERING SCOTLAND HAS ONLY ONE SHOW ALLOCATED FOR SHOW PONIES TO QUALIFY
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Post by armada on May 27, 2010 22:06:17 GMT
In the past was it not a points system to qualify?
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Post by ProAm on May 27, 2010 22:25:58 GMT
Let's not turn this into a profs vs amateurs issue. It affects everyone, and do remember that a lot of professionally produced horses are owned by ordinary, hard-working people who bust a gut all week to pay for it all because they want to give their horse its best chance or because they have a job that takes them away from home, etc.
Making qualification dependent on points forces everyone to travel more, spend more money and time. I'm sure that professionals would find it a logistical nightmare with different horses needing to gather points in different places and having to keep an entire yard load going all season rather than being able to focus on a few at a time and re-shift the focus depending on what has/has not qualified. It will mean increased costs for owners and some may think twice about funding it on that basis. At the moment, if you know your horse is good enough to qualify early on you count on 2-3 months producer fees to get its ticket and then have it back home if you need to save costs.
Or maybe we should recognise that HOYS is not everything and that there is far more fun to be had, at a lot less cost, elsewhere....
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Post by Rockstar on May 28, 2010 7:00:37 GMT
Well said ProAm
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Post by ponymum on May 28, 2010 7:34:40 GMT
What a ridiculous idea.....
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Post by chloesmum on May 28, 2010 7:55:04 GMT
I can understand why people would be against a total change, cost and welfare. HOWEVER is it not a positive move that HOYS are looking at some alternatives? My suggestion would be to perhaps have one or two wildcard places for the horse/pony who has been most consistent through the season but not qualified. For some classes as Hollycane said there are very few competitors and it seems (easier???) to qualify, I know it is never easy but hopefully you know what I mean! In others you have to win and sometimes from very large classes. It can be really depressing to stand in the top 3 at every qualifier you do and not get there and also in some classes like the small hunters the qualifier never goes below 3rd place and towards the end of the season the top 3 may have qualified so no one gets the ticket, even more frustrating. Rather than this being against the amateur it could help them to qualify. How many times have some of you towards the end of the season been in a qualifier and suddenly a BIG name brings something out of the woodwork or gets asked to ride someone elses horse and low and behold they win, under the 'right' judge and take those last tickets. Just a suggestion to compromise between the two systems.
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Post by Hack'Doff on May 28, 2010 9:27:40 GMT
It all depends on how the system works, if for example coming in the top four in a certain amount of qualifiers earned a ticket, then it may help alot more non-pro's to live their dreams. As a home produced family we often come 2nd to a pro who gets the ticket. As for horse welfare, dont most of us who want to qualify fit in as many qualifiers as we can afford already hoping we get lucky, at least with a points system we wont need that outright win to get a ticket.
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Post by agent on May 28, 2010 9:44:48 GMT
THINK THE GEOGRAPHY OF QUALIFIERS SHOULD DEFINATELY BE LOOKED AT CONSIDERING SCOTLAND HAS ONLY ONE SHOW ALLOCATED FOR SHOW PONIES TO QUALIFY and none in the home counties (Bucks, Oxon, Northants, Herts, Berkshire)
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Post by foxylady on May 28, 2010 10:38:45 GMT
I might be being cynical but perhaps hoys are worried that with the rising costs of competing less of us will bother and by introducing a different system we will have to commit to entering even more qualifiers !!!!! For the first time in 10yrs we are not bothering this year family illness means we just do not have the time and my daughter will be starting work ,I have to admit it is actually a relief I have lots more pennies in my pocket and a lot less stress . I think alot of us have forgotton why we have horses showing has taken over our lives and has become all consuming ( I include myself in this ) HOYS is not everything having fun is, the last couple of years at Hoys has felt like a being on a conveyor belt in/out all about how much money you can be parted from .
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Post by bigmama on May 28, 2010 10:39:23 GMT
if the points thingy is introduced the the number of qualifying shows for any one animal should be limited to say four or five
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Post by busybusy on May 28, 2010 11:23:43 GMT
Firstly well done to Grandstand for opening this up for discussion and not just imposing this new idea!
Personally I feel that it would not work for many of us. Not only would this give an advantage for those with plenty of spare cash for diesel/entries but would also give an advantage to those who don't work (or work part time) as many qualifiers are mid week. Also, this encourages people to keep their children out of school. We have all kept our children off for a show or 2 each year...but more than this should really be avoided.
Also many of the mid week qualifiers fall in the exam season (Uni/A level/GCSE etc) so these competitors are precluded.
Take the M&M whp for example. I think there are only about 17 qualifiers and this year only 5 of these are at the weekend!!
The current system works well....but a few more weekend qualifiers please?
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Post by 4emms on May 28, 2010 11:36:14 GMT
if the points thingy is introduced the the number of qualifying shows for any one animal should be limited to say four or five This seems a good compromise. Or even state the points required to qualify and once that is reached by any pony then no more points would be added and they automatically go down the line. If this was combined with more evenly spread show locations and dates hopefully more could have the opportunity.
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Post by overatdaknee on May 28, 2010 12:14:38 GMT
Ah, but limiting the amount of qualifiers that can be done does not help them with their levies :-)
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Post by hiccup on May 28, 2010 12:37:08 GMT
THINK THE GEOGRAPHY OF QUALIFIERS SHOULD DEFINATELY BE LOOKED AT CONSIDERING SCOTLAND HAS ONLY ONE SHOW ALLOCATED FOR SHOW PONIES TO QUALIFY and none in the home counties (Bucks, Oxon, Northants, Herts, Berkshire) Bucks County, Wellington, Show Horse, Moreton, BSPS Area7, Thames Valley - could be worse?
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Post by meagain on May 28, 2010 20:33:28 GMT
My question has to be do people Show to show or show to qualify. I for one am fed up of seeing horses getting their ticket early and not be seen again, or those who get lucky as only 1 or 2 turn up for the class and they by default get the ticket. It is time something was done as you already get animals travelling miles across country to qualify and there are those who will go the extra mile as so and so is judging and always sees them right. I see nothing wrong with having qualifying shows but may be there needs to be some kind of points system or level to be reached before you can do the qualifying shows.
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Post by agent on May 29, 2010 6:00:31 GMT
and none in the home counties (Bucks, Oxon, Northants, Herts, Berkshire) Bucks County, Wellington, Show Horse, Moreton, BSPS Area7, Thames Valley - could be worse? Sorry that I did not clarity but I was talking about whp's - and not hairy ones either!!!!
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Post by hiccup on May 29, 2010 17:48:41 GMT
I overheard someone at Herts today saying that the HOYS staff looking at this idea shows natives and shows them all year round without a break. She wasn't au fait with the sense of not running horses and indeed show ponies on hard ground and thought everyone should go out and do plenty of qualifiers. HOYS want to raise more money from the levy and stop people entering and not attending shows. Basically welfare isn't an issue but finance is. Also it sounded like they don't want shows to clash even at opposite ends of the country and if they do they'll look at passing the qualifiers elsewhere without thinking of the impact of this on the people who'll miss out. They want to enable the professionals and those with loads of money to be to move from show to show to gain tickets rather than giving everyone a chance. Another person said they are keen to take the qualifiers away from the societies so that horses and riders no longer need to be registered or members to compete in HOYS qualifiers as evidently happens with natives now.
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