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Post by billytuco on Aug 30, 2010 16:02:06 GMT
Hi, to try to aleviate stress and anxiety, I recently tried a top branded product on my horse as it did not like to leave its stable mate behind at a championship show. They had travelled together and this is where the issue started. Does anyone have stories of side effects from any of these remedies as my horse went 100 percent worse and began trying to bite himself all over, missing all his classes. I realise that some may work for one but not another however i am trying to establish which may be the next to test. I believe the one I used had high levels of magnesium in it.
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tats
Junior Member
Posts: 64
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Post by tats on Aug 30, 2010 18:35:07 GMT
I used a calmer at a sow recently, the first time i have ever used one. About 5 minutes after having the calmer my pony kept sticking her tongue out and dragging it back through her teeth as if it was itchy! This didnt last long, she only did it 3/4 times she was then fine the rest of the time, although i wouldnt say she was any 'calmer' than normal. The next day - i swear she was on a 'come down' all day! We went for a graze and leg stretch the next morning, within about 5 mins we were the far side of the showground and i was still being dragged round 2 hours later! She couldnt stand still and just acted as if she didnt quite know what to do with herself! It would almost be funny if it wasnt so frustrating! I wont be 'calming' her again!!!!
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katy1
Full Member
Posts: 278
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Post by katy1 on Aug 30, 2010 19:14:53 GMT
I tried an instant calmer recently as our usually responsive and forward going mare becomes very lazy and unresponsive in the ring, I thought this may be anxiety, after giving it she literally went to sleep in the go round and show, woke up for the confirmation, and the became possessed by the devil in the line up and final go round, literally standing on one leg daughter was desperately trying to leave the ring and the pony would have none of it, she resembled a rodeo pony and was on a high for the rest of the day, she has never done it before or since so I stay well clear now! Poss totally unrelated but not taking the chance! X
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Post by lillicob on Aug 30, 2010 21:43:40 GMT
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Post by laurajazmine on Aug 31, 2010 0:02:08 GMT
I used one recently on my nervous sec D, more for the travelling than the show and it worked brilliantly, no side effects, i used the magic syringe one.
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Post by chloesmum on Aug 31, 2010 7:57:15 GMT
I think some magnesium based products do have different reactions. Used top branded one's once with a baby Dartmoor and it sent him scatty, climbing out the lorry and also on a hunter at HOYS and again it made him more nervous. My sister drives Morgans and again she has used one for evening performances as the mare gets really wound up but again they have had the opposite effect. I think it is trial and error. Unfortunately the ones I think work best are Valerian based, but these are then not legal to show under.
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Post by CarolineNelson on Aug 31, 2010 9:52:02 GMT
I think you are quite right (I'm not speaking so much about the product, but the vet's label advice - start 3 days before you the event - slow build-up) Preparation, as always, is the key. For example, if your horse doen't like leaving his friends, practice on a weekly (or even more frequent) basis, so that he is ok about the situation when the BIG DAY comes (and, you are probably a bit nervous as well) Would you sit an exam using a product that you had never tried before? I have also seen the very adverse results of (properly prescribed) so-called anti-depressants - having quite the (scarily) opposite effect on the poor person, who has no idea what has happened and why. Calmers - if in doubt, Don't. Please dont! It's all in the training.
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Post by lillicob on Aug 31, 2010 20:46:43 GMT
Ive personally never used a calmer with any of ours.
He was an extreme case and was getting himself in a state and dropping weight as a result and generally not settled at all, one night i thought he had been hosed off by his owner he was in such a state! It did make a huge difference to him, he was on it for approx 2 weeks then he had to learn that the others can go away from him in the stable and the field and he wasnt going to die as a consequence! He then came off it and he is now calm and settled and stayed in today on his own without doing the wall of death!!
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Post by norwalk on Aug 31, 2010 23:29:38 GMT
We had a SP who became very grumpy and colicy looking after a dose of Diffuse, yet other people swear by it. Not used anything on her since!
Heard good reports about Nupafeed one, & Magic
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Post by blackknight on Sept 2, 2010 6:30:09 GMT
i used Nupafeed on a stressy stallion a couple of years ago and it had the total opposite effect, he lost the plot completly in the ring inhand and then started to colic in his stable. he then went into a trance like state and slowly came out of it. I also used it on somthing else at the start of the covering season to stop a stallion stressing for the first couple of months and it helped him
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Post by billytuco on Sept 13, 2010 17:10:29 GMT
Thanks for sharing all your experiences.
So calm plus seems to be a favorite from chatting at shows - have any of you tried this one? I am also going to follow up a few of your other ideas.
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Post by mcnaughty on May 18, 2015 7:02:58 GMT
Resurrecting this post as I had the most horrific experience at Royal Windsor this weekend. I gave pony a magic calmer syringe and it turned him nuts! He behaved like he was colicky with bad runny tummy, kicking out, barging, tucked up, bucking, swishing tail over and over. He warmed up beautifully by lorry then turned 1 hour after giving it to him. I feel very foolish. We withdrew and went home. ?
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Post by phibbles on May 18, 2015 7:27:28 GMT
As humans we all react differently to things we have eaten or taken, so why shouldn't horses be the same. Trial and error like with us,
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sarahp
Happy to help
Posts: 9,510
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Post by sarahp on May 18, 2015 8:03:29 GMT
I've never used calmers, but have been reading recently a brochure by a supplement company that considers the actual amount of Mg in the blood to be fairly critical - above or below the normal range can be detrimental. They check the horses's diet before recommending which level of their Mg supplement is used. I've no idea if this is valid, but I do know that body chemistry is extremely complicated and intertwined so I remain open minded about it.
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Post by ilovenatives on May 18, 2015 8:17:00 GMT
Mcnaughty we used Magic calmer on our show pony mare a few years ago and it had the same effect but it used to work on our old lead rein pony . This was the instant syringe one . Found the topspec every day one took the edge of her a little but she will always be stressy I think . Never used another instant calmer on her again after though . Sorry to hear you had a rubbish time at Windsor , very disappointing for little jockey when that happens . I used to give my daughter and our Shetland some rescue remedy at bigger shows about five minutes before going in the ring as often my daughter was nervous and that would upset the pony . Would recommend trying it at home first though just to be sure of no adverse reaction .
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Post by fanfarefan on May 18, 2015 10:37:33 GMT
the thing is if you use a Magnesium based calmer , and their Mg levels are ok before , then you are ultimately giving them an overdose of a body chemical that they dont need , and cant get rid of until it has worked through the system ,,,,, we have in the past used a calmer but its a herb one that we start at least a week before we need it , and gradually build up at each feed,,,, it is very very difficult to overide adrenalin ,,, and once you start preparation for a show ,,, ie bathing etc , they know where theyre going ,,, so the adrenalin is on the up then , to then give a calmer on the day of the show can be a complete waste of money , time and effort , and be detramental to the horse
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Post by ponymum on May 18, 2015 10:45:46 GMT
I have only ever used a calmer once on a lr pony who was doing an evening performance as a fr! I also had him nice and warm and he behaved brilliantly , but on the whole , I think training is the key . Take it slow , train your pony to see lots of sights and experiences and they will take things in their stride...
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Post by mcnaughty on May 18, 2015 16:21:38 GMT
ponymum, that is why I feel very foolish as pony is perfectly trained and has been to literally hundreds of shows including HOYS and RIHS so I accept full responsibility for being a prat!
I have done a whole load of googling over the past 48 hours and it seems that this is quite a common issue with the 'instant' calmers. I just want to spread the world just in case I can prevent someone else having the same issue as us.
Oh well, we both survived an uncomfortable steep learning curve and pony seems to be back to his normal lovely self!
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Post by ilovenatives on May 18, 2015 17:01:00 GMT
Mcnaughty sounds like you need the rescue remedy , I had some at Equifest when my daughter went into the D/E/S final in the main ring at Equifest . Pony and child where fine it was me who was nervous haha .
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Post by 5874julie on May 18, 2015 22:50:19 GMT
yes magnesium calmers only really work if pony has a low magnesium level ............
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Post by honeypot on May 18, 2015 23:22:17 GMT
I can not really understand why anyone would give animal a substance they have really no idea what is in it or what its effects are likely to be, and then put a child on it. I know this may sound harsh but you can buy 'legal highs' that are sold in shops and end up in intensive care or worse, why would you think the horse market is any different. They are out to make money, in most cases it a placebo, snake oil for the owner, but if it did work you are risking the rider on a doped mount. Prescribed drugs sold to sedate horses have been tested, their side effects are known but even if you know the horse you can get it wrong, there are ones that have collapsed in the lorry park. If someone markets something is natural it does not mean its safe, foxglove is a natural product, but if you ate enough of it you would end up flat on your back and not in a good way.
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Post by satchmo on May 20, 2015 12:08:44 GMT
We've tried all sorts of brands some worked some didn't, it depended on the the horse. We once tried horse first powder and that had no effect at all but the syringes worked. We now use Equine Science calming cookies and have found they work on all of ours, we are really impressed and would highly recommend them. You give one cookie an hour before and they last three to four hours. They do not make them lethargic as some can. We only use them when we need them so the bag will last forever!
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Post by mcnaughty on May 20, 2015 13:11:35 GMT
I can not really understand why anyone would give animal a substance they have really no idea what is in it or what its effects are likely to be, and then put a child on it. I know this may sound harsh but you can buy 'legal highs' that are sold in shops and end up in intensive care or worse, why would you think the horse market is any different. They are out to make money, in most cases it a placebo, snake oil for the owner, but if it did work you are risking the rider on a doped mount. Prescribed drugs sold to sedate horses have been tested, their side effects are known but even if you know the horse you can get it wrong, there are ones that have collapsed in the lorry park. If someone markets something is natural it does not mean its safe, foxglove is a natural product, but if you ate enough of it you would end up flat on your back and not in a good way. Honeypot - the packaging states quite clearly what is in the paste and it definitely was not foxglove. The Magic calmer is manufactured by a very well known and quite highly respected company but I do feel that a lot more research should be done before these calmers are openly marketed to the public. Possible side affects should be very clearly written on the packaging. These calmers are not sedatives, they are however inhibiters and as such they can affect the way an equine reacts to stimuli. I now know this to my own expense and as I have already said, all I want to do it make sure this does not happen to others.
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Post by honeypot on May 20, 2015 22:06:05 GMT
I can not really understand why anyone would give animal a substance they have really no idea what is in it or what its effects are likely to be, and then put a child on it. I know this may sound harsh but you can buy 'legal highs' that are sold in shops and end up in intensive care or worse, why would you think the horse market is any different. They are out to make money, in most cases it a placebo, snake oil for the owner, but if it did work you are risking the rider on a doped mount. Prescribed drugs sold to sedate horses have been tested, their side effects are known but even if you know the horse you can get it wrong, there are ones that have collapsed in the lorry park. If someone markets something is natural it does not mean its safe, foxglove is a natural product, but if you ate enough of it you would end up flat on your back and not in a good way. Honeypot - the packaging states quite clearly what is in the paste and it definitely was not foxglove. The Magic calmer is manufactured by a very well known and quite highly respected company but I do feel that a lot more research should be done before these calmers are openly marketed to the public. Possible side affects should be very clearly written on the packaging. These calmers are not sedatives, they are however inhibiters and as such they can affect the way an equine reacts to stimuli. I now know this to my own expense and as I have already said, all I want to do it make sure this does not happen to others. I was using foxglove as an example of a natural product that can cause harm, as it is digoxin which was initially made from foxgloves is used in human medicine, I was not suggesting it was in a 'calmer' whatever that is. All these products are sold as food stuffs and that how they gets around the drug regulations, there is nothing magic in them, if there was I am sure they would have been tested and used in veterinary medicine. 'inhibitors' can also be classed as medicines, there are antagonists for morphine, drugs that inhibit the production of gastric acid, and of course beta blockers, which control your heart rate. Some of these drugs are used on equines, but they have been tested, the side effects are known and should only be available on prescription. I think a lot of the kids that take legal highs do it because its seen as safe,'how come I can buy this in a shop if its not safe?' and 'every one else does it and they are OK', but you only have to be unlucky once and I suppose they take them so they feel calm and its cheaper than buying booze.
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