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Post by Ed Hardy on May 21, 2007 21:04:46 GMT
I have judged several of my blacksmiths' animals on numerous occasions - any financial consideration has never entered into the equation. I find they are very professional and are prepared to accept my opinions. Similarly I have been prepared to accept their opinions when showing under them. One of the things that has impressed me about certain such judges is that when they have been lowly placed showing under me they has never let this affect my relationship with them as a farrier nor a judging colleague and they has politely sought my reasons rather than slating me behind my back. If this is too personal well so be it - it is a minority of guests on here who have made it so Yes I did consider this a bit too specific and personal so i have modified your post accordingly.
Another reminder to everyone - please keep this thread general and do not go into specifics about one particular situation/judgeMr B! I wasn't aware that you kept any ponies so why would you need a blacksmith? As far as I know you have only ever owned one pony.
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Post by Ed Hardy on May 21, 2007 21:08:25 GMT
Sorry I forgot to say.
Should a judge who is judging the Olympia qualifiers when you finals be watching the qualifiers throughout the season.
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Post by Gob smacked on May 21, 2007 21:20:14 GMT
MMMM Thought the same myself on saturday as looked around the ring
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Post by Nice one Nick on May 21, 2007 21:27:20 GMT
I personally think it all comes to down to personal integrity. Do you want to enter the ring knowing that you might be putting the judge in a difficult, compromising position if you get placed? I know I wouldn't and I don't think there is any excuse for doing so. There are so many shows and classes these days to pick from and if it means that you have to miss a qualifier that is on your doorstep, so be it. At least you can hold your head up high. Hurrah! So we're not the only people who feel this way. We were brought up never to show under anyone we had a connection with be it as friends, instructors, vets or farriers. It was sound advice and we haven't missed out at all and can always compete with a clear conscience. it wasn't so long ago that the NPS Rules said you could never show under a person connected to a pony. As we see it it was a sad day when this rule was altered.
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Post by agree on May 21, 2007 21:31:14 GMT
Seriously Ed Hardy!! !!! I am gobsmacked you care that much to be honest and place so much suspciion on everything, why can't people go spectate classes regardless of what they are judging later in the season? Olympia is months away, in fact 7 whole months away. I doubt any judge would have a good enough memory (or care enough) to give a d**n what happened at qualifying rounds and b) I doubt the pony will go the same (any pony that is) under the pressure and lights of Olympia. Blimey, the grief people get/give about a 50p rosette and a bit of prize money is ridiculous! Its 'just' pony showing, its not life and death!
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Post by Cheers on May 21, 2007 21:43:23 GMT
The best Olympia judges have led by example and avoided watching classes over their year. We have appreciated their consideration and discretion. Many Hoys judges have also done the same. Standards must be dropping
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steve
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Posts: 157
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Post by steve on May 21, 2007 22:05:31 GMT
This does go on. Maybe not as much as it used but the fact remains that it does happen. They are not bothered about your feeling. Well maybe not until it is posted on here. Also you still get quite a bit of you scratch my back I'll scratch yours. Anyone who says that it does not is either blind or stupid. My view is the longer you do this job the more people you get to know. I don’t think you can call them friends just an acquaintance. Just because you say hello to a person that you see a few times throughout the season does not make them your bosom buddy. I’m sure when people go under these acquaintances in the judge competitor role, most of the time the pony is the most important thing. Now if it’s your drinking partner or your best man at a wedding then that’s another thing. Just trying to put it in some sort of perspective on it.
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Buddy
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Post by Buddy on May 22, 2007 6:38:24 GMT
Sorry I forgot to say. Should a judge who is judging the Olympia qualifiers when you finals be watching the qualifiers throughout the season. "Dear Judge, You have been Honoured to Judge Olympia this year. Please ensure that you don't talk to any competitor who competes in Olympias you are expected to know who they are and which competitors will qualify before they do. Please don't watch any Olympia classes at all, just in case it is construed that you are form book judging. If you are judging at a show where there is an Olympia, because we know you are always willing to give up your free time to be insulted on horsegossip, please can ensure that you stay away from the Olympia ring or if this is impossible can you wear the paper bag provided on your head, you will note it has two very small slits for you to see, it is most important you wear this if the judges tent is near the Olympia ring. Just so you know we will have the showing paparazzi watching you and you may be photographed or even videoed so beware. But be assured after this year is out and you come out into the light again, you will be able to sell your story to OK magazine for any enormous sum (I think not). Good luck you will need it. Is this what you all want, if so there will be no judges, no Olympia and then no arguments. These are my views as a competitor's parent - not the NPS council.Waiting patiently for the fireworks.
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Post by helen on May 22, 2007 7:38:33 GMT
HA HA, at last someone is being lighthearted.
Come on everyone stop having a go at poor Mr B. He cant stay in hibernation can he. He is a superb judge one of the best and will take no notice of what anyone does he likes what he likes and certainly wont put anything up just because his friend qualified it thats for sure.
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Post by not sure on May 22, 2007 7:47:54 GMT
mrb i dont agree with you when you say the amount of money paid to a farrier is a small amount i have 5 ponies that are all shod every 6 weeks throughout the year at a cost of £65 each so do the sums in a year i spend £2,600, also my farrier has been shoeing for us for over 15 years so i see him more than most of my relatives and of course we have become firm friends over the years and i am sure i am not alone, so realistically how can the farrier not be put in an akward position to say the least and getting back to the rules the farriers DO have a financial gain. Maryh i do agree that the Olympia judge should be allowed to watch what he wants as there is no financial gain in that and he is going to find out what qualified anyway the ponies will all be judged on the day and how a pony goes one day can be totally diffrent than the next
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Post by Cheers on May 22, 2007 7:48:49 GMT
Sorry I forgot to say. Should a judge who is judging the Olympia qualifiers when you finals be watching the qualifiers throughout the season. "Dear Judge, You have been Honoured to Judge Olympia this year. Please ensure that you don't talk to any competitor who competes in Olympias you are expected to know who they are and which competitors will qualify before they do. Please don't watch any Olympia classes at all, just in case it is construed that you are form book judging. If you are judging at a show where there is an Olympia, because we know you are always willing to give up your free time to be insulted on horsegossip, please can ensure that you stay away from the Olympia ring or if this is impossible can you wear the paper bag provided on your head, you will note it has two very small slits for you to see, it is most important you wear this if the judges tent is near the Olympia ring. Just so you know we will have the showing paparazzi watching you and you may be photographed or even videoed so beware. But be assured after this year is out and you come out into the light again, you will be able to sell your story to OK magazine for any enormous sum (I think not). Good luck you will need it. Is this what you all want, if so there will be no judges, no Olympia and then no arguments. These are my views as a competitor's parent - not the NPS council.Waiting patiently for the fireworks. There is a VERY simple answer to this.Others have managed not to judge, watch, etc any related class at any show in their Olympia or HOYS year and have kept clear of sites such as this and contact/discussion with competitors, breeders, etc. They set example to us all. If they managed and kept us in suspense then surely it is wise for others to follow their example and do the same?
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Buddy
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Post by Buddy on May 22, 2007 8:03:40 GMT
"Dear Judge, You have been Honoured to Judge Olympia this year. Please ensure that you don't talk to any competitor who competes in Olympias you are expected to know who they are and which competitors will qualify before they do. Please don't watch any Olympia classes at all, just in case it is construed that you are form book judging. If you are judging at a show where there is an Olympia, because we know you are always willing to give up your free time to be insulted on horsegossip, please can ensure that you stay away from the Olympia ring or if this is impossible can you wear the paper bag provided on your head, you will note it has two very small slits for you to see, it is most important you wear this if the judges tent is near the Olympia ring. Just so you know we will have the showing paparazzi watching you and you may be photographed or even videoed so beware. But be assured after this year is out and you come out into the light again, you will be able to sell your story to OK magazine for any enormous sum (I think not). Good luck you will need it. Is this what you all want, if so there will be no judges, no Olympia and then no arguments. These are my views as a competitor's parent - not the NPS council.Waiting patiently for the fireworks. There is a VERY simple answer to this.Others have managed not to judge, watch, etc any related class at any show in their Olympia or HOYS year and have kept clear of sites such as this and contact/discussion with competitors, breeders, etc. They set example to us all. If they managed and kept us in suspense then surely it is wise for others to follow their example and do the same? How do you know they have stayed clear of this site, no one knows who the guests are except Admin, so that blows that fact out of the window. If you know who the guests are can you please let me know as I would like to know who they are also. Why dont you write to the NPS and suggest that the Olympia Judges are not allowed to judge anywhere throughout the year, this would be a more positive move than coming on here anoymously. What judges have never judged in the year of judging HOYs and Olympia. I know for a fact that his is not 100% correct. For your information there are not enough M&M judges to go round at the moment, ask any show secretary. I thought this thread was about connections, so are you now saying that a judge watching classes, has connections.
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Post by nffan on May 22, 2007 8:30:27 GMT
I think it is very brave of any judge to agree to judge Olympia etc..some say an honour how can it be an honour when people moan about you before you judge as you happen to be close to a ring qualifiers are taking place, and after the event when they do not agree with your decisions.
I have always found the 2 judges mentioned on this thread very FAIR and EXTREMLEY knowledgeable on all breeds and only to happy to share their wisdom.
When you have been competing and / or judging for a period of time, you are going to get to know each other it happens, most of us are a friendly chatty lot who like to talk about our neddies to each other.
SO come on either let up on our much needed judges or take up knitting.
Penny
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Post by stonefoldponies on May 22, 2007 9:01:27 GMT
Mr B, Please stay indoors until December and ask someone not connected to showing or a farrier or feed merchant or a feed merchant's uncle's dentist's son to bring you something to eat. LOL! Ed, I feel that a fair judge should be able to watch as many Olympia Qualifers as he/she likes as when they get to the final they will judge on the day like it should be. After all they enjoy the ponies just as much as we all do and that is why they judge in the fisrt place?
I hope no show pony people have bought fylde saddles/plaiting bands as I'm sure the guy who owns that is a panel judge? LOL! How far can that rule be taken?? Just riduculous. I think people have to use their own judgement skills here, and alot of you probably will? Well apart from the WIN no matter what brigade that is? LOL! ( JOKE)
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Post by Cheers2 on May 22, 2007 9:39:48 GMT
There is a VERY simple answer to this.Others have managed not to judge, watch, etc any related class at any show in their Olympia or HOYS year and have kept clear of sites such as this and contact/discussion with competitors, breeders, etc. They set example to us all. If they managed and kept us in suspense then surely it is wise for others to follow their example and do the same? How do you know they have stayed clear of this site, no one knows who the guests are except Admin, so that blows that fact out of the window. If you know who the guests are can you please let me know as I would like to know who they are also. Why dont you write to the NPS and suggest that the Olympia Judges are not allowed to judge anywhere throughout the year, this would be a more positive move than coming on here anoymously. What judges have never judged in the year of judging HOYs and Olympia. I know for a fact that his is not 100% correct. For your information there are not enough M&M judges to go round at the moment, ask any show secretary. I thought this thread was about connections, so are you now saying that a judge watching classes, has connections. Some judges openly avoided judging M&M's and other types in the year they are due to judge a major title. That is a fact known by many. No-one has suggested anything to do with connections regarding those watching classes? What has been suggested is that they go to a final with no preconceived ideas about ponies, competitors and past performances. There are enough M&M judges to judge Olympia qualifiers. The problem seems to be that secretaries select who they'd prefer to invite and favour some rather than offering invitations across the board. Maybe the NPS could allocate the judges to the shows running qualifiers each year?
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Post by stonefoldponies on May 22, 2007 9:56:07 GMT
I feel that you are a little bit wrong here, as many shows struggle to get judges full stop (from my own experience). Also I think if a show is lucky enough to have a choice they will probably pick the one who will bring in the most entries. (this will be the fairest one, will it not?) (Only My Opinion).
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Post by Rules for showing on May 22, 2007 10:10:17 GMT
Some judges? ? Story changing slightly, whatever next. Why dont you go and help your NPS area if you think that is what goes on and you will find out. ..................Too much like hard work though, much easiter to come on here wearing your dear little fingers out. If you feel so strongly why dont you, as suggested by someone earlier............. write to the NPS............. post a copy of the letter on here and we can all see it. If the NPS chose the judges you would then say that they were picking judges for their own benefit, what next then. AND just for you information, Mr B is judging conformation at Olympia I hardly think watching ponies go round is going to help him judge that. Sour grapes to me. - You've obviously been put down by MrB in the past. ...........looks like he had the measure of you.
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steve
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Post by steve on May 22, 2007 10:40:13 GMT
mrb i dont agree with you when you say the amount of money paid to a farrier is a small amount i have 5 ponies that are all shod every 6 weeks throughout the year at a cost of £65 each so do the sums in a year i spend £2,600, also my farrier has been shoeing for us for over 15 years so i see him more than most of my relatives and of course we have become firm friends over the years and i am sure i am not alone, so realistically how can the farrier not be put in an akward position to say the least and getting back to the rules the farriers DO have a financial gain. I think if you actually go back through the posts and read them again you will find that mrb did not post that comment, it was a guest.
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Post by Cheer up on May 22, 2007 10:45:16 GMT
Cheers was correct. Some judges have stayed away for a season and good on 'em. Might be an idea to let NPS pull Olympia judges out of the hat at the AGM for each qualifier like the football draws. Could save show secretaries time and money and think of all the people on here who'd go to watch!
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Post by stonefoldponies on May 22, 2007 10:57:12 GMT
Well, providing they weren't judging at the final that is eh? LOL!
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steve
Junior Member
Posts: 157
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Post by steve on May 22, 2007 11:04:38 GMT
Cheers was correct. Some judges have stayed away for a season and good on 'em. Might be an idea to let NPS pull Olympia judges out of the hat at the AGM for each qualifier like the football draws. Could save show secretaries time and money and think of all the people on here who'd go to watch! I actually mentioned something on these lines at the NPS champs last year to a few council members. I.E A list of all judges eligible to judge Olympia classes in one hat and a list of the shows in another. Draw takes place and Mr. Bloggs gets drawn out to judge at Show A. So on and so on. In theory it is a good idea and would be seen by most competitors as the fairest way of doing it. But in practice it could cause problems due to show dates and distance to be traveled for the judge drawn. Also added to the problem would be the cost for the show organisers should the judge have to travel from the opposite end of the country. Tough one to actually come up with a sensible solution for.
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Post by great on May 22, 2007 11:40:47 GMT
that is a great idea but agree with Steve it has it's flaws maybe do hats like he mentioned but for certain areas so the travelling is not a problem.
i.e hat 1 and hat two are southern olympia shows and judges willing to travel southerly and hat 3 and 4 vice versa.
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Post by why oh why on May 22, 2007 12:34:33 GMT
I think it is very brave of any judge to agree to judge Olympia etc..some say an honour how can it be an honour when people moan about you before you judge as you happen to be close to a ring qualifiers are taking place, and after the event when they do not agree with your decisions. I have always found the 2 judges mentioned on this thread very FAIR and EXTREMLEY knowledgeable on all breeds and only to happy to share their wisdom. When you have been competing and / or judging for a period of time, you are going to get to know each other it happens, most of us are a friendly chatty lot who like to talk about our neddies to each other. SO come on either let up on our much needed judges or take up knitting. Penny Why are you jumping to their defence? Are they friends? do you have a financial interest with them? Or are they judging you this season? ?? This is what we will have to ask in the future every time our pony gets put up by a known judge
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Post by great on May 22, 2007 13:45:29 GMT
Mr B - you do not need to tell the sad people on here why you don't have horses, it is none of there business. I bet you they still dream of coming under you at Olympia so take no notice and please don't feel you have to justify yourself.
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Post by penny clifford on May 22, 2007 14:02:13 GMT
i must jump to a fellow Judges defense
i met mrB for the first time at the North of England Show ( i was judging shp and he was judging M&M)
we had lunch together as he had rather a long wait as the classes were very busy
what a very interesting and knowledgeable person he is i was totally enthralled with what he had to say on our native ponies
he was also very interested to here what i had to say on shp and sp,
both he and i came away from lunch having learned something,
so from that brief meeting i really do not think he would be influenced by what he did or did not see ( bit like cludeo "it was Mr b in the library with a crystal ball)
and before everybody starts saying " only because he is judging Olympia"---- we don't do those classes
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Post by nffan on May 22, 2007 14:33:29 GMT
[/quote] Why are you jumping to their defence? Are they friends? do you have a financial interest with them? Or are they judging you this season? ?? This is what we will have to ask in the future every time our pony gets put up by a known judge[/quote] They are not friends nor do I have a financial interest with them, I have had ponies judged by them with mixed results, however I feel they have always been fair. As for 'This is what we will have to ask in the future every time our pony gets put up by a known judge' I am lucky my ponies often do well when shown (under many judges) but I do not feel the need to ask the question why have they been put up, I am not known, nor have anything to offer anyone that may put me up, maybe I am lucky I have nice ponies that we work hard to show to their/our best ability... Those that often don't do well instead of saying it is the judges maybe you should look at yourself and your pony....
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steve
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Post by steve on May 22, 2007 15:16:36 GMT
that is a great idea but agree with Steve it has it's flaws maybe do hats like he mentioned but for certain areas so the travelling is not a problem. i.e hat 1 and hat two are southern olympia shows and judges willing to travel southerly and hat 3 and 4 vice versa. Yes that is another way of doing it. I'm pretty sure there are lots of ideas from people out there and some of them probably quite workable and fair. Discussing ideas on a place such as this which is accessible by all will no doubt throw up a few good ones along with a hoard of bad ones.
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Post by Abbey on May 22, 2007 16:52:23 GMT
Now if it’s your drinking partner or your best man at a wedding then that’s another thing. Just trying to put it in some sort of perspective on it. Does your buddy stripping for you count as well See some has bailed out and left someone else holding the baby
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Post by John Wayne on May 22, 2007 20:25:50 GMT
You seem to have alot to say Steve are you trying to get in with the Olympia judge. This thread seems particularly interesting to you.
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steve
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Post by steve on May 22, 2007 20:37:31 GMT
You seem to have alot to say Steve are you trying to get in with the Olympia judge. This thread seems particularly interesting to you. Iv'e always got a lot to say john. Have you got a problem with that?
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