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Post by brookviewequine on May 18, 2012 8:31:20 GMT
Sometimes YOUR life means you have to give your horses time out. It has to be better than trying to deal with a problem when you are stressed and hurried. Ahhh I see Brookviewequine is male THAT explains a lot!! yes male thankyou and probably very much in the minority on this site. im not going to get personal about it as it would be disrespectful towards you and i dont know you. now in response to the main thing you said, yes time out for horse if its the owner that has the issues. 90% of people give time out for their own issues and problems. we are then discussing something far different than the thread that was initially posted. |
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Post by horseylady on May 18, 2012 9:47:01 GMT
Brookview... You also have to take into consideration the age of the animal, He is actually only a baby, maybe mentally immature to... Tell me what harm will having time of do? will he be thinking 'oh great, il misbehave so il get time of, next time i come into work'?? hmmm no he wont.... AND when a horse misbehaves a high percentage of that reason is because there is something wrong with it, sore, sharp teeth, badly fitting tack..jockey error..confusion.. I wont go on... horses are not naughty animals by nature.. There will always be a valid reason why they are misbehaving... Yes subject has gone of subject... Il see you on the other side! lol  |
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Post by brookviewequine on May 18, 2012 9:59:15 GMT
The dark side?  |
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Post by nagrags on May 18, 2012 15:22:11 GMT
Im back ladies and Gents  We're having his back checked this evening and his teeth re-checked next week. My daughter feels he isnt wanting to go forward and feels almost dead to the leg at times. Once he has had all his physical checks done we will then know if this physical or behavioural. Personally for us its come at a bad time as since the start of this thread my mum unexpectadly has had a stroke and my daughter is facing some medical issues of her own. Due to my daughters health we put another rider on him and although he was better it was clear that he wasnt wanting to go forward and given the opportunity if pushed he would rear  I thankyou all for your advice I do understand |
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Post by brookviewequine on May 18, 2012 18:08:07 GMT
very sorry to hear your news. but you ve started a great debate hope things turn out ok for you |
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Post by sageandonion on May 18, 2012 18:31:57 GMT
nagsrags, so sorry to hear things are not going too well generally for you. Maybe give him some time off and concentrate on the other issues, I am sure he will be fine, don't worry.
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Post by rubydoo on May 18, 2012 19:05:47 GMT
has the pony been turned out for summer ? this often turnes a forward going pony into a lazy fat lump ,
i do give mine a break from time to time to relax but not if i have a problem that im trying to solve .
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Post by nagrags on May 18, 2012 19:21:47 GMT
We've had the physio out this evening who said he had some tightness in his shoulder and neck. He's a Sec D and was cut late so he had a lot of crest and lower neck muscle. Apart from this everything is spot on He had quite a bit of treatment today and been advised to have the weekend off so we will try again on Monday. We will also continue to have his teeth etc checked as well. Jaimie - no he has never been turned away whilst he has been with us (12 months) I will keep you all updated As for the healthy debate I believe theres been another thread on here about having time out so I will have a nosey on that thread - incase for reasons beyond our control its something we need to consider x |
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Post by lulah on May 19, 2012 14:28:32 GMT
i think do the relevant checks , revise his diet, make sure he is in a suitable bit and go back a few steps with your schooling. imo lazy horses are better with one or two days off between rides. also concentrate on fittening him up so he finds schooling more easier. remember to listen to him, if he is tired leave on the best note possible.
i have used spurs on lazy ponies as a short term "wake up call" !! but a rearer might not be too happy with you using them!
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Post by vikki85 on May 19, 2012 17:18:23 GMT
When riding my sometimes lazy sec D my instructor advises to ask her once with legs, if no response ask her again and if still no response crack riding boot with schooling whip quite sharply - the sound is a wake up call! The more 'nagging' we do with our legs the more dead to the leg they become Not sure if this method would aggravate his rearing, but it usually sends mine forwards! Obviously with everyone else in terms of health checks first, and making sure he's fit enough for the work he's doing |
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Post by workingcob on May 19, 2012 18:14:56 GMT
The title of the thread is that she wants to nip it in the bud ? Yes? In 25 years I ve never met a horse who has learnt things by giving it time off. That so? Never come across latent learning then? Every youngster we've ever had has had time off and come back better for it in one way or another, having had time to process what it has learnt. Ponies are not machines, and if there are personal issues going on then it might be best for all concerned to give this pony some time off. The rearing session when xc schooling sounds like a case of the pony having had enough and resorting to rearing to get the message firmly across - child riders sometimes miss the more subtle signals which go before a full height rear |
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Post by FF on May 19, 2012 20:49:17 GMT
Reading this it sounds like my friends horse that i've been riding. He is a very smart boy and learns very quickly but has his own opinion on things. If he thinks he's right and you try to correct him, he paddy's and will put a buck in. If you try to make him do something he doesn't want to do then he rears. He's not very forward going and is quite lazy and tires easily so i've been keeping schooling sessions short. Yesterday he went fabulous in our lesson but today he bucked because he got the wrong canter lead and I pulled him up!! I asked him again and again he got it wrong so then he wouldn't go forward and reared, I pulled him down to the right as he rears and goes left nearly all of the time and I made him turn right and turn and turn and turn till we were both a bit dizzy. I straightened him up and asked him to trot and then he went fab I was so pleased with him and praised him loads and then we stopped before it went t*t's up again. lol I've been pessoa ing him twice per wk, hacking twice per week and one schooling session and one lesson. He struggles keeping his canter as he's quite lazy so trying to improve this with the pessoa which is helping alot with this. If it's getting worse with your horse and your stressed with things at home then i'd call it a day for now and turn him out. No use keeping going and it getting worse imho as it'll do neither of you any good. It's supposed to be fun. If he's the same when he comes back into work then send him to a professional while he's still young and get it sorted. Good Luck. |
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Post by brookviewequine on May 20, 2012 9:24:29 GMT
to answer working cob, agreed,youngsters turned away. brill.
but to agree with ff, work through the problem and dont say oh i ll give him a few months off.
by the way my definition of time off is weeks/months not a few days
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Post by gooogle on May 21, 2012 9:08:49 GMT
I support brookview on this on girls, nip it in the bud then a time out, so that the "processing" the pony learns whilst on hols is that i must go forward and i must not rear! I can't believe the comment from ikklecob about brookview being male ( OH checked, I still have my girlie bits ) as my gut reaction the same as his, had he reversed the comment and said typical woman you would all be screaming from the rooftops! Last i looked Monty Roberts, Tim Piper, Richard Maxwell and Carl Hester all men to name but a few respected sympathetic horsepersons.
I am surprised that people don't give their ponies a break within their working year at some point as it is a basic point that everyone needs a holiday. I know there are exceptions to this before you all jump on me, certain medical conditions and veterans often need to stay on tickover for health reasons.
It is clear that you accidentally overdid things going xc that day. I would recommend a few low key hacks in company with a confident jockey for a few days before going in the menage again. When you go back in carry a schooling whip in each hand! When you ask the pony to go forward with your leg and nothing much happens use them! Allow all the forward movement you achieve with your hands and verbally reward it! once in walk the pony should stay in walk til you give aids to the contrary without you keep using your legs on every stride! If the pony begins to slow down use your voice and tell him to walk on and tickle with the whips til they get the idea. Lots of walk and halt transitions until you achieve this. ( No rein backs for now ) Once you have achieved this move on to trot and repeat. When he rears no excuses drop him one this is napping and is dangerous and must be stopped. Get someone on the ground with a lunge whip ready to crack it loudly to support you can also help.
Once you get three sessions in the menage with out this behaviour ( hack in between them ) then give him the holiday so he processes the correct behaviour not napping.
And before you all start jumping up and down i totally understand your situation as I have a sick grandfather, 4 children, part time job, freelance teaching, judging and house hunting to fit in so you have my sympathy about your life at the moment. However most of my students are nervous riders and if you let this go on you are adding to the stress, as you will also be thinking about this problem and how to sort it on your time out instead of crossing it off the list.
In my experience prolonged anticipation only causes more problems than doing things in the here and now. Don't feel bad if you need someone else to do this for you at the moment if you can't face it yourself as you can wield the lunge whip to be involved. Scatter random poles around the menage as it can divert attention from the behaviour as most don't want to fall over!
Smelt the wilkie, and don't be scared of second opinions with things like backs, tack etc as in my experience is that if you look hard enough there are always two opinions on most of these professionals whatever their reputation. Had a pony treated by vets and physio for a year with limited results til another vet found the fractured anterior process on her atlas bone!
All the best with everything, hang in there! pm me if you fancy a whinge about how s*1t life can be! got to go boiler man finally finished x
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Post by vikki85 on May 21, 2012 9:17:56 GMT
I think that was a very good post gooogle with lots of good advice!
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Post by nagrags on May 22, 2012 9:47:44 GMT
Just to keep you all updated. We are still awaiting his teeth and saddle checked. My daughter took him in the school last night with a loose contact (Incase its his teeth) and although he doesnt feel too responsive he managed to do a few transitions on each rein. He was praised accordingly. We dont want to do too much more until all checks have been completed. She can and will continue to hack him out but for the time being I want her in the school so I know if he does rear she has a softer landing. We have decided that whatever has commenced his actions of rearing is something that we want to try and work through. Once we know his physical checks are all fine we will up the anti with the schooling. Thanks everyone |
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Post by carrie17491 on May 23, 2012 11:45:39 GMT
I would like to just suggest something - it may be totally irrelevant.
How about instead of giving him a break from riding, give him a break from schooling? He may be trying to tell you he's had enough of going round the school. Horses have their own mind and if they don't want to do something they won't and they will try to tell you in their own way they don't want to do it.
I would make riding mor enjoyable for him, go on nice hacks where he is allowed to just relax. Maybe even school out on hacks? I hate schooling in a menage so i dread to think what the ponies think about it!
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Post by lillicob on May 23, 2012 14:51:59 GMT
Agree with the above, was my first thought when i read your update. To be honest if he were mine until he has had his back checked etc which i would do asap i wouldnt be riding him, but on saying that if it is something he does when being schooled or he is objecting to something being asked of him then i would say its more of an evasion.
I think every young horse especially needs a variation in their workload, getting him out and about, fun rides, farm rides etc, anything where he learns about going forward properly and having fun.
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Post by nagrags on May 25, 2012 8:53:32 GMT
We noramlly school both in and out of the school. Whether that be at XC or out on a hack. But due to not wanting to take any chances if he rears we are playing it safe and staying in the school. My daughter is a student nurse and needs to be in tact The school is a softer a landing |
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Post by amumwithapony on May 25, 2012 9:16:48 GMT
I haven't read all of the posts to if I am repeating something someone has said I'm sorry. If you have ruled out all medical issues then I would be tempted to do a little lunge work with him and lots and lots and lots of longreining. If he his not wanting to go forwards it could be that it is a confidence issue or an evasive technique to get out of something he doesn't feel happy doing. If you have only had him 12 months and he's 6 now and cut quite late its possible that he has only been broken in recently, so instead of looking at him as a 6 year old, try and view him as a newly broken 4 year old. He may be mature physically but its a big transition to go from a stally to a gelding mentally. I doubt he stands and worries about him loosing his balls but it does knock their duck off a bit. I know the school is the safest place to be BUT if you are still doing what you were doing before, just now in the school rather than hacking it out of him, he will be getting bored and frustrated. Its hard work for a pony to bend and be balanced constantly working in circles which is giving him no inclinations to go forward, so he will put a wall up and it gets harder and harder and harder to get rid of that wall. So sometimes trying to keep working through things makes it more difficult. Never go toe to toe with a cob is my theory! So instead of riding him out hacking get him long reining. If he goes up you will have enough time to shift out of the way. Aim for a nice, forward active walk on the end of the reins, then get fit by doing the same in trot. Work on your transitions, stopping and starting and going walk/trot and trot/walk a lot. This will not only get him physically fitter, but also improve your relationship with him. You can also use the school to long rein in, but keep it interesting for him. Cones to bend round, poles to go over and reverse into, plastic bags to walk over and handy pony courses all stimulate his mind and get him doing different physical things. Try and only actually ride him when you have him much fitter physically and mentally. And keep your sessions short and sweet. 10-15 mins is more than enough schooling for me, mine both switch off after that point and we either have a row over something or they get lazy and don't want to learn anything new. Plan each session and what you are aiming to achieve. Once you have done what you want, call it a day. Too many of us will go in the school with a baby pony and think 'right I'm going to practise my trot transitions today. Do them, they go well so we think 'right, now lets do canter transitions'. And then it goes wrong. Its better to do 1 thing well and end on a high than 2 or 3 things badly. And it won't hurt to have a little time off IMO. Turned my 4 year old away last sept and hes started work a different pony this month. |
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Post by watchbank on May 25, 2012 9:18:05 GMT
Schooling bores the life out of so many ponies, my D doesnt mind it a few times a week but my older mare despises it and works her self in there, yet we can take her to a show and she goes 100% !!
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Post by nagrags on May 28, 2012 9:58:29 GMT
Also.. Just wanted to let you know my mum is doing very well after her stroke so thats kind of one less thing to worry about (although we need to keep an eye on her) p.s Does anyone know of anyone who has experience is checking and fitting bits in the North West? We want to make sure we have covered everything possible |
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Post by watchbank on May 28, 2012 10:05:33 GMT
i dont mean to tell you how to suck eggs but what about a standing martingale so he cant get his head up to rear, we have had so many here over the years that have done it and once they start the habit they just do it everytime
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Post by Milliesmum on May 30, 2012 12:54:34 GMT
Had his teeth checked today and found 2 sharp teeth and an abscess He tried to rear in his stable when initially having his teeth rasped so it begs the question is he doing this through evasion or fear/anxiety? Besides this we plan to start using a martingale for the forseeable future Having suffered from a tooth abcess myself, I can say they are excruciatingly painful, and I'm not surprised your poor boy has been making his feelings known. Hopefully once he's sorted out you'll find him much more obliging. |
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Post by sageandonion on May 30, 2012 14:57:40 GMT
Poor pony. You need to give him at least a couple weeks off and then have the dentist back to check that abcess has completely cleared up then start work off on the lunge from the bit (to check mouth healed). This is probably more for his rider's benefit than his own. An instructor I had was schooling a pony that reared out of character and broke her pelvis in several places. It was subsequently found the pony had a tooth abcess.
Personally I wouldn't use the martingale. You need to know if the pony is still in pain and therefore telling you. If a pony wants to send you a message and the undesirable behaviour is pinned down, then he will tell you nevertheless by bucking, bolting or worse.
How rude is that remark to brookview with regard to him being male. Discrimination.
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Post by lillicob on May 30, 2012 19:23:54 GMT
I would definately be giving him 2 weeks off if not more. He must of been in alot of pain. Horses and ponies dont tend to do these things without a reason. Hopefully the sharp teeth and the abcess is the cause and he will be ok and the rearing hasnt become a habit or something he is doing out of naughtiness. Without knowing the pony i cant comment on that.
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Post by gooogle on May 31, 2012 19:40:11 GMT
Now you know the root cause is pain (excuse the pun) then I'm going on a complete turn around, do NOT ride the pony again until your vet/dentist gives you the complete all clear as you would be being totally unreasonable to expect him to take any sort of contact at all! Even out on a quiet hack you need to be able to be in control at all times so if you cannot pick up a contact due to pain leave him! Turn him out as much as is possible. Grazing enables the absess to drain when it bursts and grass is the easiest thing for him to chew. Try to avoid pellet shaped feeds, our vet also recommends avoiding chaff as is prickly to eat. I have seen more rearers going over backwards as a result of standing martingales than any other cause, they throw their heads up feel it kick in and panic which is not what you are looking for I assume. Once you bring him back to work completely better, compromise and ride quietly in a small field perhaps with a reliable escort, then re-introduce the menage and then finally the hacking. Again if you are at all worried get someone else to ride him for you and then get some lessons to rebuild confidence for you and your pony, ideally with the person that rode him for you. I would never school more than 2/3 times a week unless you are at a serious dressage level. Introduce pole work for variety and distraction to keep him occupied. Also TALK to him a lot as this is often the quickest route to rebuilding trust between you. It centers you in the saddle and prevents you inadvertantly holding your breath (which transfers tension to him). Good luck. |
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Post by nagrags on Jun 10, 2012 9:01:32 GMT
Sorry - pulled third in his class of around 20 |
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Post by FF on Jun 10, 2012 10:48:06 GMT
Great news. Glad to hear you went home after the 1st class. The right thing to do. Good things to build on now. Good luck for the future.
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Post by brookviewequine on Jun 10, 2012 11:18:49 GMT
"There are still steps to take with this pony and dont feel that now is the right time to turn him away." good choice |
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