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Post by the showing register on Oct 24, 2012 17:33:09 GMT
Good evening
I am going to answer re insurance and CCP in the morning just had a very busy day so apologies but the morning it will be.
Wendy
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Post by the showing register on Oct 25, 2012 11:04:29 GMT
Good Afternoon
Firstly I would like to reply to thefuture page 2 reply # 42. I have the following response from the JMB.
''Your society does not need to become a Member Society to require animals to have JMB measurement certificates competing in classes affiliated to your society.''
We are free to apply for membership of the JMB if we wanted to object to our members horses or ponies height or help to formulate new rules or have general representation.
Regarding the CPP this is covered in our file statements and is available on receipt of a SAE.
Judges will be required to make a one off statement regarding CPP and animal welfare on acceptance. This is all that is required for a low risk category such as showing.
The insurance I am still waiting for and will report tomorrow.
Wendy
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Post by conniegirl on Oct 26, 2012 16:14:59 GMT
the showing register be very very careful about child protection!
Have you gone through a legal chanel to ensure that that is all you need? In the day and age where some parents are required to have an enhanced disclosure to watch thier children in school plays or to drive a mini bus full of scouts to an event, are you realy sure that you will not require CRB checks? and if you do will you be funding those?
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Post by baileybob on Oct 26, 2012 16:22:11 GMT
horsegossip.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=144853I'm very disappointed to see The Showing Register continually referred to as "TSR" already, despite what you said in your reply on the above link. TSR has been used within showing circles for many years to refer to the long and well established The Show Ring forum. It absolutely befuddles me why you would choose to use something already in existance when you could have picked any one of a million names. But ho, hum.
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Post by CarolineNelson on Oct 26, 2012 18:55:16 GMT
the showing register be very very careful about child protection! Have you gone through a legal chanel to ensure that that is all you need? In the day and age where some parents are required to have an enhanced disclosure to watch thier children in school plays or to drive a mini bus full of scouts to an event, are you realy sure that you will not require CRB checks? and if you do will you be funding those? I would completely concur with this and feel that the information given to your Showing Register has been weak. "... just showing..." - There can still be hands on stuff (even in complete innocence) - and there can still be rights and wrongs.. Animal Welfare is the other factor which requires regular Disclosure checks. Judges, Stewards and indeed, all Volunteers are expected to undergo checks for the NPS.
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Post by puddledub on Oct 26, 2012 22:55:02 GMT
I have to confess to being very very confused ....... you state this an excellent way for those at Grass Roots levels to show in HOYS qualifiers at a lower cost but SURELY this is a complete contradiction as HOYS qualifiers are for the elite, top end of showing that many have worked towards for years and not for the Grass Roots/Beginner level of competition. Many societies have also worked exceptionally hard over the years to support their members, shows and judges to raise the level of competition at HOYS and their qualifiers, so surely this is just belittling the showing classes at HOYS by implying that the qualifiers are within the reach of beginners and grass roots level competitors. And as for cost ...... once you have paid the very expensive entry fees for a HOYS qualifier or two and the levy (another subject to have a rant about, but I digress), have got a HOYS level animal and all the kit and training, have filled the lorry with diesel and possibly paid for stabling .... the annual membership/registration fees pale into insignificance. Plus, apart from one or two people, the vast majority competing at HOYS level will also be competing in RIHS qualifiers, National Champs level etc and in the case of Hunters could compete on a Day Ticket anyhow. Sorry, wont be getting my memebrship
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Post by the showing register on Oct 27, 2012 5:37:31 GMT
Good morning Puddledub
Thank you for your post. Of course not everyone wishes to show in HOYS qualifiers and that is an individuals choice. We have a section for Amateur showing riders in the MasterClass Pathway this is an initiative whereby we are running training classes at smaller shows (unaffiliated and shows with no HOYS/RIHS Q) and joining with top trainers at their clinics. You can be spotted and go on the Pathway which can lead to riding at HOYS in a training environment.
You can take part in the clinics and training classes without being a member but you do need to be a member to go on the Pathway. However this is very good value as £20 is for the owner, rider and 1 horse or pony you then get £20 returned to you in the form of one free training class and one free entry in our Riders Championships at our July show.
Once on the TSR/HOYS Pathway you can access training and get help with your riding and pony the Pathway is in 6 sections MM,Plaited Pony,Horse, Coloureds,WHP and Working Horse. The final selection for the 6 riders to ride in the MC at HOYS will be made at our show in July.
Check out our web site for info and pictures from the 2012 class and details on the 2013 selection.
best wishes
Wendy
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Post by puddledub on Oct 27, 2012 19:18:30 GMT
I am really sorry Wendy, but your reply has confused me even further!
So, from nowhere, the Showing Register is now going to offer EVERYONE a level to compete at? And a National Show, and training, and a judges list, and membership ..... yet no committee to refer to?
Most societies/associations/organisations have grown and evolved slowly and organically over the years, creating judges lists, rules, classes, membership packages and often training and support .... all through graduall evolution and guided by a panel/committee/directors with many years of experience and working for the good and benefit of the membership.
Where has the Showing Register come 'from'? who is behind it and guiding it? what is its aims and who is it to 'benefit'? Is it a charity, a not-for-profit organisation or a limited/private company?
You state that you offer a cheaper option to competitors ... but not if they also need further membership/registration to compete at other events/shows other than HOYS, and it will most certainly be at the cost of the older, more established societies/organisations who have stood by their membership (and affiliated shows) in difficult times and as HOYS have changed and altered the goal posts over the years. They will ALL lose income through these latest changes and is that fair when they have put all the hard graft and groundwork in for another organisation to come along and pull the rug from under their feet.
Is the Showing Register in alliance with Grandstand Media? Affiliated to them? Owned by them?
.... going back a few years to when HOYS was still at Wembley and was bankrupt and so very nearly went under, Grandstand Media came to the rescue, and part of their recovery package was to introduce the showing levy. Show Jumping was not asked to contribute to this financial resue package, but showing since then has made an absolutely VAST financial contribution to the show on an annual basis with the levies raising (at a fairly accurate estimation) in the region of £MILLION per year!!
In return showing competitors receive no gratitude or consideration, their first place prize money barely covers the entry fee, (compared to ever increasing prize fund for the show jumpers) classes are put at ridiculous times in the morning with exercise even earlier, most classes are now banished from the International arena, there is no longer the final judging which was most competitors ambition, and if you want an extra wristband with your entry you are expected to pay more than a member of the public can get an all day ticket with a seat for.
Grandstand Media quite clearly consider the showing world to be far 'lesser' competitors than the show jumpers. Yet they are bringing these classes under their own 'flag' more and more and yet without the help and guidance from the [original] governing bodies are making more and more c*ck ups that should just not happen at the most elite show of the season.
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Post by the showing register on Oct 28, 2012 6:44:49 GMT
Good morning Puddledub
Thank you for your comments. We have clearly stated aims and that is to lower the costs of membership so that it is not so expensive to go to your local show if it has HOYS Q classes lots of riders do not expect to qualify but would like to take part and who can tell where that will lead to for them in the future. We have had several posts and lots of e mails supporting this view. At the moment we only cover HOYS pony Q but also have a comprehensive training programme in place for amatuer riders and this is supported by most of the showing professionals who wish to put something back into the grass roots. All exhibitors have a choice of who they join it is not compulsory to join us as is the case with other societies for RIHS, Olympia and all Horse Q classes.
We respect all the other societies and the work they have done over the years but sometimes in any arena something new comes along and shakes it up and that is what is happening at the moment. We are a private company registered at Companies House and on another post earlier on this thread I explain our ethos. We have no connection to GM other than normal business practices.
best wishes
Wendy
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Post by thefuture on Oct 29, 2012 11:52:13 GMT
Well, no connection other than you quite heavily sponsor HOYS (with your company and the Breeders Review). This is very expensive advertising - is it not?
Will you be running and organising shows at local level that run qualifying classes for your own 2 day finals or will you be relying on others to do that for you
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Post by minkara on Oct 29, 2012 11:56:12 GMT
thank you for all your prompt answers. however I don't exactly understand the phrase 'normal business practises'? what does this precisely mean? thank you
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Post by the showing register on Oct 29, 2012 12:22:31 GMT
Good morning
The Showing Register sponsors the MasterClass to enable amateur riders to ride at HOYS in a training atmosphere. It was popular this year and we are putting a lot of resources to spreading the training classes and clinics around the country which was mentioned in an earlier post. We are having training classes at shows in the West Country, Wales and Scotland as well as the rest of the UK and if any riders are talent spotted onto the HOYS pathway from far flung areas we will see if we can raise some sponsorship for them to enable them to travel to Arena UK for the final.
Any show can apply online free of charge to be sent rider qualifying cards that enable the rider to compete in The Showing Register Gala finals but we are not running any shows apart from the two mentioned.
' normal business practises' means conducting the way that The Showing Register is run to benefit the members and other associated interested people by using all available means to find value for money solutions and extend the range of options available. This may mean working with different providers to keep costs to a minimum and engaging with showing exhibitors,professionals, trainers and others to offer innovative solutions.
I am unable to comment on the Breeders Guide as this is outside my remit.
best wishes
Wendy
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Post by thefuture on Oct 29, 2012 12:49:08 GMT
So, similar to the judges register, you are relying on others to organise shows that qualify for your finals.
Forgive me for my negativity, but there doesnt seem to be much investment at all except towards GM/HOYS who will appear in considerable proportion on your purchase ledger
As you are running a fledgling (first year/first time) show, can you confirm, not that it is any of my business at all - just interested, if you have applied to GM/HOYS to run qualifying classes not restricted to amateurs, at your 2 day July show
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Post by the showing register on Oct 29, 2012 13:04:04 GMT
Hi again thefuture
It is normal for organizations to affiliate shows if the show wishes otherwise every showing society would have to run all its championship qualifiers ie NPS BSPS Equifest etc. I somehow feel I might not be going to win you over !
I commented on the July show on an earlier post.
best wishes
Wendy
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Post by thefuture on Oct 29, 2012 13:24:30 GMT
I am suspicious - that's all and not convinced of some of the motives.
Time will tell but as my season doesn't focus on one show HOYS, I will not need to pay another £20.
With regard to your reply, dont forget that the NPS and BSPS have an "area" network that invest heavily, both financially and otherwise, in running shows -winter and summer and training clinics which are usually open to all.
When the company your work for does similar, I might eat my words and a fair smacking of humble pie with it
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Post by the showing register on Oct 29, 2012 13:40:45 GMT
Hi thefuture
The only motive that is in view is to lower the costs of showing and make it more affordable to grass roots exhibitors there really is nothing sinister about us! I did not think for one minute you would become a member but I do feel we must be nearly friends albeit in an verbally combative way !
Wendy
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Post by thefuture on Oct 29, 2012 16:27:32 GMT
Wendy, I understand that motive and hope that it works for all
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Post by Cefn farm Horses on Oct 30, 2012 9:38:34 GMT
puddledub i do feel that you are being unfair to the showing register and in part to grandstand. in terms of input into the new system at hoys i think you will find that all the societies had input into putting together the new rules at hoys the entry form etc. grandstand have done a fantastic job with hoys and i do not feel thst they belittle showing at all in fact it conttibutes thousands each year in levies.
in terms of any commercial tsr has with grandstand -so what. grandstand could tomorrow announce all hoys showing will be administered by tsr and if u want to compete at hoys you gave to be a member of tsr. what could anyone do about this? nothing is the answer. tsr is sure to excel and prosper.
the societies have done this so plesse address your concerns to their respective hoys reps who orobably cant see the writing on the wall. showing is on a course for self destruction especially when you read some of the threads on here.
you only have to look at the success of equifest and this does affect the societies and will affect more over the coming year. i for one wish tsr all the best and can see the commercial involvement with grandstand prospering further. as such i will offer support to them
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Post by pinkylady on Oct 30, 2012 10:00:33 GMT
Hi, I was wondering if you had any intentions including miniature horses? As at the moment to qualify for HOYS with a miniature horse you have to be a member of the BMHS, however the main society the MHCGB, which has far more entries at any of there shows, there members can currently not enter a joys class unles they also register with BMHS, your affiliation would go through the roof, as would the entries at your shows if you could include miniature horses!
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Post by the showing register on Oct 30, 2012 18:00:31 GMT
Good evening
At the moment we are not covering in hand showing with reference to breed classes including miniatures. We would like to see all showing as open as possible and will put forward the case for this whenever the opportunity arises.
Best wishes
Wendy
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Post by rats on Oct 30, 2012 18:05:24 GMT
This breeders guide in hand show is ringing bells.
Please, in the interests of openness and honesty can you give us the names of those involved in running the Showing register. I know the address for membership is in Sible Hedinham but it would be nice to know the faces behind this new society.
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Post by pencaedu on Oct 30, 2012 18:17:10 GMT
If it's a limited Company, details are available online from Companies House
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Post by rats on Oct 30, 2012 18:26:43 GMT
forget that, found the answer 17th post down on page 2. Nothing to do with said persons departure from PUK?? and another rival society? This isnt just a showing register, the website points to 2 or 3 shows - Spring, summer & in hand?
Have heard rumblings about a new show wanting a Cuddy and backers - maybe putting 2 + 2 together to make 5 but rather coincidental in guessing that would be the in hand show? I hope GM maintain their support for qualifiers going to established county shows, Lincoln County in hand section has been all but killed off by the Cuddys removal, somewhat unfairly. Why should a 'new kid on the block' totally un proven in the same area take over. Be interesting to know where the £8000 prizemoney is coming from.
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Post by rats on Oct 30, 2012 18:38:35 GMT
I am unable to comment on the Breeders Guide as this is outside my remit. best wishes Wendy But the Breeders Guide is also owned by Gail Chapman and the in hand show running under their banner ??
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Post by the showing register on Oct 30, 2012 18:44:57 GMT
Good evening
The Breeders Guide is running its first annual in hand show at the same time and venue as the showing register show we are sharing the costs of show ground hire etc. The BG is I understand sponsored from outside of the showing world. I am not able to comment further on this as it is not the company I work for so have no remit to answer your questions. The awarding of qualifiers is only for GM to decide and not something I personally know about as I really look after members and benefits.
I am away until Friday so will not be so prompt at answering posts but will take the I pad as I am quite hooked on the combative replies it's a bit like jousting !
Wendy
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Post by puddledub on Oct 30, 2012 22:33:02 GMT
grandstand have done a fantastic job with hoys and i do not feel thst they belittle showing at all in fact it conttibutes thousands each year in levies. I think you may be a wee bit confused about the levies .... Grandstand Media does not contribute thousands of pounds to showing each year through them it benefits by 100s of thousands from them .... we the competitors are the contributors. I totally agree that GM has done a fantastic job in resurrecting HOYS from near bankcruptcy but some of the changes in more recent years have not been for the better and think that the more they take "in-house" rather than with co-operation/coordination and under the rules of the major showing organisations the more hiccups there appear to be ... the marks system this year was a point in question. ...... and the continuing use of the abbreviation TSR for the Showing Register is confusing matters further ... as has already been said many times on this thread, this has been used for MANY years by the many and prominent members of the THE SHOW RING forum/website, many of whom compete AND win at HOYS including Supreme Horse of Show on more than one occassion.
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Post by thefuture on Oct 31, 2012 8:36:28 GMT
Good evening The Breeders Guide is running its first annual in hand show at the same time and venue as the showing register show we are sharing the costs of show ground hire etc. The BG is I understand sponsored from outside of the showing world. I am not able to comment further on this as it is not the company I work for so have no remit to answer your questions. The awarding of qualifiers is only for GM to decide and not something I personally know about as I really look after members and benefi I am away until Friday so will not be so prompt at answering posts but will take the I pad as I am quite hooked on the combative replies it's a bit like jousting ! Wendy Wendy, I am glad you find the "jousting" fun but I am with others on here (there's a surprise). How can a fledgling society, that has never run it's own show, be considered to run such high profile classes as HOYS qualifiers, which, if offered, will be at the expense of already successful shows, who have invested heavily in the past. It is a sad state of affairs that in this economic climate, these shows struggle to exist without the qualifiers - but it is a fact nonetheless.
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Post by Cefn farm Horses on Oct 31, 2012 9:44:49 GMT
anyone considered the fact that the showing register may have presented to GM a sound well prepared business plan that GM considered was worthwhile? these are two commercial companies. we very often see very new construction companies granted karge contracts with little or no trading history. i personally cannot see why such a fuss us being created when all the societies were for new rules, new entry form and marks at hoys.
what can the societies do about any collaboration? nothing in reality as showing does not own either hoys or rihs.
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Post by 4xxxx on Oct 31, 2012 21:59:11 GMT
One would like to think that the director of GM, being an astute business man, would have done their research rather than just taking a glossy business plan at face value. Sure 'Cefn farm' new companies win contracts but their directors & financial credentials will be scrutinised beforehand as one has to be absolutely sure that they will deliver...
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Post by Cefn farm Horses on Nov 1, 2012 9:26:40 GMT
i am sure that the people behind the showing register will strive to ensure a success and that GM have not just taken a glossy brochure. when assessing a deal with a new company you will look at forward projections there the finanvial credentials will stackup
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