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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2013 9:48:19 GMT
Hi everyone, just wanted your opinions on something I have been thinking about for a while now. We bought a pug last April (3/4 pug and 1/4 puggle) and she is a year old next month. I was thinking about breeding from her in the future (age 2-3?) but after doing a bit of research I am slightly concerned that it isn't the best idea! I want what is best for her and if it means spaying her I will. After reading that they are prone to tumours on their uterus etc I'm not so keen on the idea anymore. She also had a little check up last time she went to the vets and has not health issues (breathing etc) but would obvioulsy have her checked again if I was to breed from her! Advice please?
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Post by horseboxapp on Jan 14, 2013 9:55:03 GMT
The most common worry with Pugs is probably breathing troubles, but if you cross breed to counter this, the puppies should be fine.
If you are worried about complications for her because of the breeding, if you ask your vet for the details of risks they'll tell you how safe it is. The internet tends to be more gloom and doom than accurate.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2013 9:57:21 GMT
When she went for her last check up, the vet said her breathing is fine! Unlike a pug, she doesnt snore all the time (only in deep sleep!) My worry are the complications involved! I'd hate to lose her if anything went wrong Thank you for your reply horseboxapp
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Post by horseboxapp on Jan 14, 2013 10:07:35 GMT
You'll probably be more vigilant about the problems now, so you'll know not to ignore things.
You could also contact some other Pug breeders to see what they say about it, or what are the warning signs you should look for?
(Our cavillers are noisy sleepers too, can't hear a thing when they really get sleeping)
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2013 10:18:45 GMT
I initially planned to breed from her once and then get her spayed? Would have been nice to keep one (if I am allowed!)
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Post by colourful on Jan 14, 2013 11:39:39 GMT
I would consider why you want to breed from her? if you may not be allowed to keep a pup for yourself - also allow for possible vets bills etc - and you may get left with the pups there are so many dogs / pups around that it may be hard to find suitable homes. Just my thoughts.
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Milliesmum
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Post by Milliesmum on Jan 14, 2013 11:42:18 GMT
May well get shot down in flames here, but have you thought about breeding cross breeds, for example a jack russel stud as pugs tend to have problems giving birth due to the large head of the pups maybe a cross breed might be easier for her, and Jugs in particular are a very popular cross.
**Puts tin hat on**
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sarahp
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Post by sarahp on Jan 14, 2013 11:57:56 GMT
Rescue centres are full of dogs needing homes, why add to them?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2013 13:12:45 GMT
The price of vet bills isn't so much of an issue/worry. My worry is her health! When I say hopefully I will keep one, I mean I definetly will! I also think finding the pups homes wont be to much of an issue, I have so many friends that have said they would definetly have one if she had them! Obviously if I couldn't find them homes, I would keep them all myself
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Post by lils on Jan 14, 2013 13:15:59 GMT
Rescue centres are full of dogs needing homes, why add to them? Echo this! probably " cos my friends all love her and said they will have a puppy" if this is why and even if for yourself- go to a rescue centre
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2013 13:21:21 GMT
lils- People should be free to pick and choose what breed they have! IF, there is not the breed you want at the rescue centre then people can buy/breed the dog they want!
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Milliesmum
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Post by Milliesmum on Jan 14, 2013 14:03:56 GMT
This person is thinking about this for the future, is getting all the information from both sides before she goes ahead, I think that's actually pretty responsible. She's considering what she's doing, a rescue dog isn't for everyone. Yes in the ideal world we'd all go to a rescue centre and everything would be lovely, but if you want to know about temperament/size/health issues of a dog before you get it then a heinz 57 from an unknown background isn't going to work for you.
Give the girl a break!
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Post by B_31 on Jan 14, 2013 14:12:06 GMT
i agree people shoul dbe allowed to choose but you have just ecouraged her to add to the potential!! problem of crosses!?
btw i have a cross and a pedigree....before anyone think im against - im not!....but i sure as heck wont have another cross...she has the worst of both breeds and also healthy issues! so crosses are not healthier
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Milliesmum
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Post by Milliesmum on Jan 14, 2013 14:16:04 GMT
I've had this argument countless times, pedigree dogs have just as many health issues as crosses, in either case it depends on whether the breeder is responsible enough to check out the history of both parents before deciding to mate. If you buy a cross or a pedigree from a reputable breeder you shouldn't have a problem. And if by mating to a breed with a smaller head it means her bit*h can self whelp rather than have to undergo a cesearian section, then why not?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2013 14:33:40 GMT
Thank you Milliesmum! As Milliesmum has stated, I am just THINKING about it! Of course I do not want to breed dogs that are going to have health issues! AND I am not breeding her just for one my self! It would have been nice to breed my self! since everyone is against it and seems to think that everyone should get a dog from a rescue I think I will go else where and look for answers!!
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Post by B_31 on Jan 14, 2013 14:47:37 GMT
if you are going to do it look at health tests relevent for the breed??
why do you want to breed though?? to improve the standard of a breed??
for me the only reason a dog should be bred from is if it has outstanding results from either showing/agility/obedience etc.....
not because puppies are cute. its not a good enough reason
if you still insist on doing it - just make sure you have a list of people wanting a pup BEFORE you even mate her.....cause you can be guaranteed of mind changes!
im saying this as im dealing with a dog who was accident bless her - btu a cross - hip dysplasia, being one of her many issues....
i wuldnt wish that on anyone.
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Milliesmum
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Post by Milliesmum on Jan 14, 2013 14:51:25 GMT
How many dog owners take part in showing/agility/obedience? And how many just want a happy, healthy family pet with a decent temperament?
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Post by B_31 on Jan 14, 2013 14:53:42 GMT
How many dog owners take part in showing/agility/obedience? And how many just want a happy, healthy family pet with a decent temperament? this is exactly why we have an over run though?! my cocker (albeit pedigree but still) has a wonderful temprament - colour is stunning (chocolate), hes well upto breed standard etc - i would have a list as long as my arm if i studded him (he also has a list of trial champions in his dads side) i wont breed though...... as he is a pet. nothing more. my other dogs - collies, again outstanding brains/health etc and temprament - agility trained, not amazing but loved it - they are pets! i just cant understand why people just dont enjoy their dogs for being pets and nothing more...??
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Milliesmum
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Post by Milliesmum on Jan 14, 2013 15:00:46 GMT
I have a c0ckerpoo. Which seems to make people on here want to nail my liver to a tree.
She has a fab temperament, she's a loving, loyal family pet. She was neutered shortly after her first season as I have no intention of breeding from her and also for the health benefits of neutering. What I'm saying is, we don't all want a pedigree dog, my brother and also my OH's sister have pedigree dogs and have had nothing but problems! To a certain extent, you take your chance with either, but before buying I researched this cross, including potential health issues.
I knew before buying her how big she was likely to grow etc., and whether she was going to be suitable as a family pet with small children. So far nothing has convinced me that I made a wrong decision, actually I'd have another one tomorrow but OH says one is enough!
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sarahp
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Post by sarahp on Jan 14, 2013 15:40:57 GMT
Tallulah - if your first consideration is the health of your existing dog then the safer choice would be not to risk any complications from breeding from her. Most breeds have a breed rescue organisation for anyone who wants a particular breed, or they can go out and look for one already born to buy. If you breed you are adding to the pool of existing dogs and will have a litter's worth of puppies to find homes for. Possible homes are a finite resource.
The vast majority of crossbreds do not come from "reputable breeders" who will have done all the health checks on both parents, and are by definition variable in inheritance, ie you don't know as puppies how they will grow up, they can never be guaranteed to be "happy healthy family pets with good temperaments". They could inherit all the good points from both sides or all the bad ones. I have a friend, for example, who has a collie/lab cross (which her mother bought in the first place but was too much for her) which has a manic collie brain in the large powerful body of a lab.
We have a lurcher, so a crossbred by definition, and what appears to be a saluki but a stray so no proof of that. The former we know to be a collie/saluki lurcher cross, someone else's accident, who we had at 7 weeks old. She has the best bits of both sides, but came with a clicky hip on which she is now lame, I'm off to the vet with her this afternoon. Rescue ?saluki was a stray, totally healthy so far but not the easiest dog to own on behavioural grounds.
Mm, I don't want to nail your liver or anyone else's to trees, but it would be good if you could see both sides of the pedigree/crossbred debate as I try to do! I have one crossbred and one rescue of unknown provenance myself so cannot be said to be anti non-pedigrees although I'd never ever breed any on purpose. There are quite enough bred by accident, in fact too many dogs of whatever breeding these days for the homes available, that's really my point. If you'd seen our rescue when we took him on and what he looks like now you wouldn't want to encourage any more dogs to be born to uncertain futures.
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Milliesmum
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Post by Milliesmum on Jan 14, 2013 15:52:45 GMT
I do try to see both sides, but I can't understand why for a dog to be of any merit it has to be a pedigree dog? Each to their own, let people make their own choices, and there's a difference between a mongrel of unknown breeding and a particular cross, which has been bred for a long time and for a good few generations, so it's not unreasonable to be able to predict the end result.
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Post by jeanslater on Jan 14, 2013 16:17:54 GMT
Rescue centres are full of dogs needing homes, why add to them? Agree
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Post by brindlerainbow on Jan 14, 2013 16:54:10 GMT
I have always had pedigree dogs and have had Boxers for over 30 years, have never had another breed . My daughter has recently got a 9 month old lurcher ( this was her 4th home ) she is a deerhound/greyhound/bedlington/whippet cross. Although the dog lives with my daughter they come and spend every Saturday with us and the boxers. Have to say I absolutely adore the little lurcher!!! Boxers will always be my first love but they are not a breed for the faint hearted as require lots of excercise are totally manic and need entertaining to keep them out of mischief . Every Saturday we go hunting ( foot following ) as I do the photography for my local hunt. We always take the lurcher with us and she is perfect. I wouldn't dream of taking the boxers because they would cause mayhem....... So different dogs would suit different families and situations. Pedigree will suit some people whereas cross breed will suit another. Both can have health problems, boxers can have heart problems although mine dont, the lurcher has dry,flaky itchy skin and so do a couple of its litter mates. I suppose im quite anti breeding ( not just dogs but ponies too!! ). I have never bred from my dogs even though both are extremely well bred and the pups would sell for £600 - £700 but the boxer rescue services down here are full so I certainly wouldnt want to add to the problem. I think anyone wanting to breed should ask themselves why they want to do it and if they do go ahead and breed whether they are prepared to offer new owners lifelong support if needs be. Puppies are cute and cuddly but breeders have to make sure they vet potential owners and choose those that are committed to the dog for the rest of it's life which could be up to 15 years, and no matter how much people say they really want a puppy the novelty wears thin when its chewed their best shoes,mobile phone,chair leg etc and they have cleared up yet another pile of crap!!! The fact that my daughters dog had had 4 homes in 9 months says a lot as the dog is perfect in every way im sure the novelty just wore off. At least she is now in a forever home
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2013 16:59:28 GMT
Thank you for your reply, I think il just get her spayed :/ maybe buy another!
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sarahp
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Post by sarahp on Jan 14, 2013 17:13:59 GMT
Mm - it takes a lot of generations for any crosses to breed true so as to produce a totally predictable result and so be called a pure bred. Millie looks delightful, but is nothing like the last cockerpoo I saw a couple of weeks ago that looked more like an overgrown Yorkshire terrior with the same black and tan long straight coat, which is found in either cockers or poodles.
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Milliesmum
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Post by Milliesmum on Jan 14, 2013 19:23:52 GMT
You misunderstand me, one of the reasons millie was spayed is that they don't breed true, but a first cross between a poodle and cocker has a generally predictable result, only size varies dependent on size of the poodle used, also some use the american cocker which can affect things.
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Post by colourful on Jan 14, 2013 20:44:35 GMT
I have no issue with a dogs breeding pedigree or xbreed I do however have an issue with adding more pups to the huge welfare crisis we already have in the UK - if someone wants a particular size/type of dog I would stake my life on it that there would be one in a rescue centre and if you are that keen you would travel for it. I have the same issue with over breeding of horses,cats,rabbits,ferrets,goats etc
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sarahp
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Post by sarahp on Jan 14, 2013 22:35:25 GMT
Sorry Mm, you mentioned "a particular cross, which has been bred for a long time and for a good few generations" rather than first crosses only and then neutered, so I'm obviously not following you. And those aren't always consistent in type anyway. Breeders of some of the currently fashionable crossbreds about now do breed on for generations of variable type.
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Post by Tralala on Jan 14, 2013 22:55:07 GMT
Poor Tallulah, looks like you opened a can of worms here!!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 15, 2013 8:16:46 GMT
Yes Tralala, all I wanted to know where risks with breeding!!
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