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Post by julie on Nov 17, 2006 14:40:35 GMT
I have just read the Trust post and it reminded me of an occasion I had forgotten about.
About 6 or 7 years ago we went to Moreton in the Marsh with our Sec A to do the flat class - but we also saw in the schedule a "Thewell Class" for ordinary children, to be judged by a TV weather girl (cant remember her name) on the joint looks and appeal of pony/rider. We had a lovely, sweet looking white pony and our daughter at the time was a very pretty looking blonde little girl of 4. In husband goes, in a massive ring right next to the Ferris wheel etc. Its so big the ring, with about 30 children, that they didnt come back into close vision for about 15 mins - and when they did I noticed daughter was crying and throwing arms around but husband was ignoring her. Although my friend and I frantically waved to get them to come out of the ring, he persisted in ignoring us, they finally lined up and the TV weather girl picked cute victims at random to interview for local radio. Needless to say she picked my daughter who, still snuffling, refused to speak to her at all (normally with judges you cant shut her up). We came nowhere but all the competitors as they left the ring were given a Thelwell mug. When I asked husband why the ..... he hadnt come out of the ring when she was crying he explained that all the real noise started when he told her if she didnt stop they'd leave so she then became hysterical that she wouldnt get a mug....so he grimly hung on.
The following year we had the Moreton schedule and there, in black and white, the Thelwell class now had the additional sentence "Any child showing signs of distress will be asked to leave the ring" All because of my daughter!!!!! (I keep checking and its been there every year!)
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Post by lolly on Nov 17, 2006 15:04:47 GMT
Loved the story Julie
Looking back you release the weird things that you do, and ofter wonder where you're brain was on that particular day.
Years ago at our local pony club show we took my sons section D for him to do the WH.
Thomas the D was a full up 14.3hh.
My 7 year olds pony was out of action and after two hours of pleading we allowed her to take him in a class.
What class would you expect - we barmily put her in first ridden, yes she looked totally ridiculous, but she did a display to be proud of, and Thomas looked after her like you wouldn't believe, it was her first time of riding him. I still cant believe we let her, it was a silly thing to do but, she came out of ring of 9 with a fourth rosette and a new found confidence
I hadn't breathed for an hour, but new in my heart Thomas would look after her. I still cant believe though to this day how I was talked into letting her, 'the persuasion of a child is so strong'.
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Post by sallyw on Nov 19, 2006 9:24:44 GMT
Interesting that Julia should comment on the Thelwell class at Moreton in Marsh show. We did this very class in 2006. My grandaughters pony was double barrelled in the ring by one of the other ponies - and seen to do it by the judge. The pony had serious nerve damage and has only just begun to be ridden again (yes, a year and three thousand pounds in vets fees later). The pony that did the kicking was later placed. The schedule says something about manners being very important. I think that Moreton is the worst show in the world for small ponies. Going back to my gripe about mothers beating lr ponies etc. Unbelievably I saw it happen again yesterday to a different pony! Get real folks - I agree ponies are not rosette machines. I think if thats all you want you should get yourself a sewing machine and make yourslef some nice rosettes. Don't bother with a pony at all.
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Post by Angry on Nov 19, 2006 18:00:46 GMT
The worst thing we ever saw was when my daughter was in lead rein, first ridden at the BSPS show in October at Suffolk showground (think area 15). A very small, dark haired welsh guy (apparently an ex jockey) bought his grey Welsh Sec A out of the ring and put it in lorry (next to ours). He kicked it so hard in the belly, about three times you could hear literally it was winded. I flew up to the box and he told me to f ... off, mind my own business, my seven year old daughter burst into tears. I reported him to the show secretary who said unless I knew his name, there was nothing they could do.
A few months later we saw him at Towerlands (autumn show), trotting a lead rein pony round without a rider and ramming the cane into its side and head. He is really intimidating so went to find my husband who tried to find him (we were about to leave), yet again he disappeared. This was five years ago, he was placed in the lead rein at hoys last year and I should have looked up his catalogue number to find out his name. It still makes my blood boil, how thick am I, still never managed to get his name and if I did I would publish it on here.
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Post by Guestless on Nov 19, 2006 19:58:25 GMT
A very small, dark haired welsh guy (apparently an ex jockey) bought his grey Welsh Sec A out of the ring and put it in lorry (next to ours). He kicked it so hard in the belly, about three times you could hear literally it was winded. A few months later we saw him at Towerlands (autumn show), trotting a lead rein pony round without a rider and ramming the cane into its side and head. He is really intimidating so went to find my husband who tried to find him (we were about to leave), yet again he disappeared. Darn disgraceful. I don't understand why people take such deplorable actions for the sake of a little bit of ribbon. If you want to be violent, then take up martial arts!
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Post by julie on Nov 20, 2006 12:06:38 GMT
Interesting that Julia should comment on the Thelwell class at Moreton in Marsh show. We did this very class in 2006. My grandaughters pony was double barrelled in the ring by one of the other ponies - and seen to do it by the judge. The pony had serious nerve damage and has only just begun to be ridden again (yes, a year and three thousand pounds in vets fees later). The pony that did the kicking was later placed. The schedule says something about manners being very important. I think that Moreton is the worst show in the world for small ponies. Going back to my gripe about mothers beating lr ponies etc. Unbelievably I saw it happen again yesterday to a different pony! Get real folks - I agree ponies are not rosette machines. I think if thats all you want you should get yourself a sewing machine and make yourslef some nice rosettes. Don't bother with a pony at all. There is no way AT ANY TIME BY ANY JUDGE that a pony double barrelling as you describe should have EVER been placed - it should have been asked to leave the ring. And as for those posts regarding beating of ponies, we all have to be brave enough to report it - bad enough some of the foul things that go on behind the scenes cant be reported but to do it at a showground in front of children and others is deplorable and those involved should be publicly shamed. What a way to bring up children!!!
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Post by sallyw on Nov 21, 2006 8:27:14 GMT
What I didn't say in my previous post was that the judge (very well known celebrity apparently although I have forgotten her name). said to me "Is your pony okay - these Shetlands are little tinkers arn't they" In other words she considered it just a bit of play and not a serious attack (which it was). I complained to the show secretary but was just told that the judges decsion was final!!You are right about reporting bad behaviour BUT we all know that if you report one of these well known people they might be judging you at a future date. However, I promise you that the next time I see anything like that I will report it. Will other people?
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Post by julie on Nov 21, 2006 10:11:48 GMT
I have been thinking about this quite a bit and reporting on bad behaviour is difficult - I was wondering whether you'd be better to video an incident as proof but then thought its probably against some Human Rights/EEC Personal Freedom rule....its just so hard to think of this behaviour continuing.
Mind you, I also remember years and years ago a well known local showjumping pair of brothers who were always quite foul to their ponies - but when I mentioned this to someone who had known them they told me something even worse - that when the boys didn't win/rode badly they were taken behind the lorry and beaten by their father - so they obviosuly took their pain and frustration out on the equines. I often wonder what happened to them in their life outside ponies. Your story illustrates what could happen to that family you witnessed - don't you think? This topic has actually really made me question why we all do what we do - and life is depressing enough! (Little bit of humour here)
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Post by sallyw on Nov 22, 2006 15:02:53 GMT
ok julie lets have a bit of humour. I have three lead rein ponies and getting them just now in the nearly dark pouring rain, I thought I would lead the three of them together - after all they are experienced at being led! They are mummy and her two daughters. Mummy always wants to be first and rushed through the first gate and her wet rope slipped through my fingers. She rushed up the drive past a man who was standing at the stable yard gateway, presumeably looking to see if there was anyone about. She knocked him clean off his feet and into the hedge, carrying on past and into her stable. Her two daughters were then most reluctant to go past but did so snorting, going sideways and generally breathing fire. The man lept to his feet and rushed off down the drive away from these wild uncontrollable animals, dropping some of his double glazing leaflets on the way. The three ponies then immediately assumed their butter would not melt usual expressions! So to get rid of unwanted callers get a lead rein pony!!
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Post by princess on Nov 22, 2006 15:08:27 GMT
hahahaha thats so funny! I'm gonna train mine to attack the bloody ramblers, they are a pain sometimes! mindyou they don't get very far if they have sandwiches with em!!!
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Post by julie on Nov 22, 2006 15:43:27 GMT
Very funny!
What is it about cold/wet/dark that winds up normally placid ponies? I have three here. One very elderly pony who is in an electric fence plot by herself, then the two little terrors in another starvation plot. I always bring in the two little-ies, then get Madam. This has been my routine since we bought Madam last September. Madam whinnies like mad but waits while I come back to get her----- or she did till the weather closed in a few days ago. In the pouring ice rain I stumble and slide with the first two, fight with them while one tries to go into the other's stable, then panics when it realises it will be kicked to death if it does, hold on to the rope for dear life while doing up first pony's stall guard (still with me?) then finally let go and let panic pony into her stable. All the time Madam is whinnying with increasing agitation that a) I have forgotten her b) she might not get fed. I carry on shutting things, moving hose, next thing I know, elderly pony (aged 26yrs, been a WHP since she was 4) hurtles into the driveway having jumped electric fencing and a post and rail.
Actually I was quite proud of the old girl! And she did it again for a couple of days until I raised the level of the electric fencing....
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Post by sallyw on Nov 23, 2006 8:26:15 GMT
Must be something about these elderly working hunter ponies. Aston True Welshman if left till last jumps the fences between fields until he arrives at the top gate where he waits as if he was left there and not three fields away!Only the six inch ddep footprints where he landed give him away. I think my small ponies like your old one are wound up by the thought of food - they would tell you they are half starved - and nothing even salesmen will stand in their way!
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Post by julie on Nov 23, 2006 9:36:08 GMT
I am off the LR post but your post about jumping fields reminded me that years ago I had a lovely bay jumping pony, bags of character, massive talent who chose what days and what occasion to display it (never the one you wanted). Anway one summer day I went to call the ponies in. Kennedy was where I left him, but no sign of Fourpence. I called and called and three fields away I heard a whinny then the most beautiful sight occured: he calmly jumped hedges (all about 4ft6 high) till he came back into his proper field and me. It really was the most wonderful thing to see: the only other animal sight that moved me so much was sailing a catamaran off Abersoch beach and a pod (if thats right) of dolphins appeared from nowhere and swam wiht us for about 15mins. Sorry to ramble on but its nice to remember how wonderful ponies are...(I used to recall Fourpence's free jumping often,especially when he stood on my foot (a favorite trick of his) and I wanted to throttle him!
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Post by sallyw on Nov 24, 2006 10:37:11 GMT
Yes, ponies are wonderful and they give us such pleasure, if we go back to the lead rein subject, maybe we expect too much of lead rein ponies and that is why some people are disappointed in them - I was just going to say that they are only human - but if I do you will know what I mean!! I go back to the fact that people paid a lot for ponies and therefore expect big results> Come on then folks - who paid very little - or even nothing at all for a lead rein and what has it won? Have a boast please and cheer us all up!
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Post by princess on Nov 24, 2006 10:58:01 GMT
I paid £500 for our LR pony as a 3yr old! She came out as a 4yr old last year doing LR, first riddens and novice opens! she was 6th in the lobster pot at puk, placed in all her classes and she won the junior dalkeith smalls, we are over the moon with her, she is a little star. she will just concentrate on LR next year with my 6yr old and she is having a well deserved winter off!
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Post by guest66 on Nov 24, 2006 13:07:21 GMT
We bought an unbroken sec A at the fayre oaks sale a few years ago for £800, did the following summer season on the lead with her, and then sold her for £8500.
If you know what to look for you can grab a bargin.
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Post by sallyw on Nov 24, 2006 17:34:37 GMT
Glad to see that it can be done with little money. Actually I have a four year old gelding sec A just been sat on this week - top class - less than £1000 - for sale -anyone else want a bargain! The best of mine however was free with another pon and has qualified already in all three (nov,open,res) for lead rein winter champs. She was backed in April. Any more good boasts?!!
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Post by Big Breeder on Nov 26, 2006 22:33:18 GMT
My LR pony cost 350 - sorry lost pound sign on keyboard! - stud fee and was 6th, 2nd, 4th and 7th HOYS - good investment and even more satisfying that he was home bred!
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Post by sallyw on Nov 27, 2006 8:14:05 GMT
Home bred is brilliant. I have ayearling gelding who is home bred and who will be five when my gandaughter is twelve. HOYS ridden here we come!! Hopefully!!
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Post by tiggy on Nov 27, 2006 10:24:22 GMT
My section D Mare did the family pony with CTS 6 year old jockey being led by helen and did baby trot steps for him, Helen then jumped on and did the rest of the show - it was so cute - a few years ago we also let a friends 7 year old do the minimus jumping on her and they went clear except for one stop as the little girl lost her stiirrup and Tigs stopped and waited for her to get herself organised - shame she doesn't feel she needs to take care of me in that way
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Post by sallyw on Nov 27, 2006 20:07:29 GMT
A friend of mine who has been producing ponies for more years than she would care to admit to always say that the best and most intelligent ponies adjust to the rider. You mare, Tiggy, obviously proves this.
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Post by Cherrytop & Spicery Stud on Nov 27, 2006 20:09:47 GMT
sure I have a photo somewhere
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Post by Cherrytop & Spicery Stud on Nov 27, 2006 20:12:40 GMT
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Post by WOOFWOOF on Nov 28, 2006 5:53:01 GMT
In a showing class my personal opinion is it is immaterial whether a child holds on to the saddle or anything else. As previously stated by other posted it is a showing class and not a best rider class and so is based on the suitability of the pony and not judged on riding performance.
A rider on the lead rain is theoretically on that lead rain because they are not yet competent or confident enough to ride without it and that may be because of their young age or inexperience and not necessarily down to the pony they are riding.
A little rider hanging on to the saddle aboard a flightly looking lead rein pony I'd mark down, a confident rider holding on to nothing aboard a flighty looking pony I'd mark down but maybe (all else equal) not so much as the first mentioned. Neither would fit my idea of an ideal lead rein pony but picture of a clinging rider on the former would obviously lead to a more suspicious view in respect to that pony's suitability.
As far as lead rein classes are concerned the jockey is of little relevance in my opinion and in a class full of immaculately mannered ponies is merely decorative. Only where manners arent quite so immaculate should more attention be paid to the rider on board.
Personally speaking starting a child off in lead rein classes I think is a waste of time. Other than instances where someone has a pony they wish to show and the necessary requirement to have a child on top when they do, I see minimal benefit - the primary benefit by a mile being they may learn a little showmanship. Whilst I wouldnt penalise a pony with a clinging rider I am of the opinion that, if a rider is not yet competent enough to sit in the saddle without that assistance, they shouldnt be in the ring at all- they arent ready. Even a bombproof pony isnt always guaranteed to be immune to every increasingly un-nerving distraction at a larger show and even a minor spook can unseat a more experienced young child, let alone one who can't stay in the saddle without support.
On that basis I believe those little riders who need the extra means to maintain their balance and/or steer should be kept at home until they are able to ride unaided and off or virtually off the lead rein altogether.Lead rein classes at local RC level would give them no less ringcraft experience than the larger show would plus, classes usually being based on riding skills, they encourage riders to "ride" and correctly as opposed to their only function at a higher level being ornamental.
. I too started riding at a local riding school, having weekly group lessons from the age of four or so and only when I had mastered rising trot without aids and could do so off the lead rein many months or a year later was I allowed out on a hack, led on a lead rein by another mounted rider.
By six I had been off the lead rein a long while, by eight was riding 14hh ponies and by then competing at the most basic local sub RC level and skipped lead rein classes completely. Too many seem to keep their kids on a lead rein right until they exceed the maximum age for those classes instead of encouraging the child to leave the lead rein behind as quickly as they can. As a result lead rein to first ridden for those kids is a huge jump and by the time they've cracked it they are out of the class and/or have outgrown the pony.
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Post by julie on Nov 28, 2006 9:45:33 GMT
You obviously cant do this under rules but when we started to teach our daughter to ride she had a Wintec safety saddle (the one with the incorporated handle. It was well shaped and helped her keep a reasonable position with the added benefit of being able to grab something if she felt unsure. We then went down the lunge lession route, doing all sorts of hands off exercises but in the show ring we had a normal saddle and we did encourage her to hold on at trot if she felt a bit wobbly (some days she was brave, others a bit windy though the pony was a lovely gent). All her unaided woork was done in a friends menege, so she was safe. Eventually we decided to let her do her first ridden class. I have never felt so sick, it was a little RC show but with a super county level judge (which actually made it worse somehow!) and when I look at the video (a bit shaky as husband was a bag of nerves too) she was a little dot, the pony looked enormous.... anyway she went in, went straight up to the judge (Derek Payne who swept his bowler hat off to her) and apparently said "This is my first time off the lead rein. I MAY canter and then again I MAY NOT" Mr Payne was brilliant, said she could do anything she wanted and off she went.
So its a good idea I think to practice at the smaller shows where there is less pressure (sometimes!) and get them confident to come off. I found in the early days that most judges are so kind to them in the LR/FR and are looking at an overall picture of happiness and manners - holding on like grim death would be frowned on I guess but surely do they look safe? Though I have to confess it does put me off when you see enormous, competent looking children still on the LR... but as has been said earlier, all children progress at their own rate, have different growths and you can only really do your best by them.
As for the point of showing LR, well, when they are young its fun to do things actually with them, though squeezing into outfits on a hot day wasnt much fun and as for the blisters on my heels......
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Post by sallyw on Nov 28, 2006 10:20:29 GMT
Oh! Julie - I do know what you mean. I think most mums/grandmothers or whatever are most anxious to get out of lead rein because they hate the dressing up. I know some people like it but I think most don't! We do it so that our children can compete. If they have older siblings they usually can't wait to get in the ring - even if they culdn't manage a whole class on their own.
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dizzy
Full Member
Posts: 417
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Post by dizzy on Nov 28, 2006 12:22:29 GMT
I too celebrated when we were leaving the lead rein classes behind, Id much rather bite my finger nails and chain smoke ( I no smoking is bad for you but not nearly as bad for you as lead rein) watching the 1st ridden, than run around a large, muddy, uneven ring in either gale force winds, torrential rain, snow, or baking sunshine looking like a total idiot in an daft outfit praying that my hat will stay on or that I dont trip and fall flat on my face or slip and land on my arse in the mud.
Worse still is your small child blaming you wen they dont win and then topping that off is wen your small child finally developes the art of steering and they suddenly decide in the middle of the class not to do your well planned show but there own delightful creation (without telling you 1st) and then at every turn you and the pony are going in opposite directions and you manage to look more of an idiot than normal.
And then the worse thing ever is lead rein working hunter classes who ever invented them wants shooting Im sure it was created for entertainment value I have nearly died doing that class on many occasions and it always seems to have the biggest audience and a photographer present.
So yes I was the happiest person alive when my daughter was in her last season of lead rein and then I had a surprise half way through the year (surprise is actually an understatement the biggest shock of my life is more like it) I find out im having a baby (no idea how that happened) and I find myself 5mths pregnant at PUK(the last yr at Peterborough) in the worst weather ever running around on the slippiest muddiest ground possible contemplating doing lead rein all over again.
My youngest is now nearly 2yrs old (she too loves the ponies)and another yr or 2 and she will be ready to start the dreaded lead rein. The closer it gets the older I feel and the more my joints ache but at the end of the day Im sure we will have some fun and I get to spend lots of quality time with my daughters with an interest we all share and hopefully this time I can say goodbye to lead rein forever.
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Post by howithappened on Nov 28, 2006 12:38:37 GMT
then I had a surprise half way through the year (surprise is actually an understatement the biggest shock of my life is more like it) I find out im having a baby (no idea how that happened) It's quite simple how it happened really. it's called sex ;D Sorry couldn't resist that!
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Post by julie on Nov 28, 2006 12:48:58 GMT
I know someone, not that horsey but with a sibling who was very experienced, who decided to do LR with a new pony they'd recently bought. She went out and specifically bought an outfit - very Garden Party if you get my drift - complete with THE HAT.
In she went, pony and small rider beautifully turned out by experienced sibling, Dawn preening as she led them round. Finally came the initial halt of class for individual trots - off they went. Pony flicking its toes, Dawn mugging to the crowd for all she was worth. People were gasping and pointing, Dawn mugged all the more.
Finally she came back to walk, then halted for child to salute to judge. Only then does she notice the child sitting on the ground, miles away being comforted!! She was so busy showing off her outfit she'd never noticed she and the pony were doing it all by themselves!!
She never led the pony again.
Oh happy days (?)
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Post by julie on Nov 28, 2006 12:56:54 GMT
A friend of mine who has been producing ponies for more years than she would care to admit to always say that the best and most intelligent ponies adjust to the rider. You mare, Tiggy, obviously proves this. I've only just read this properly - does that mean all my ponies are awful and thick? (It could explain a lot!) The Elderly WHP went dressaging on Sunday and in front of a lot of knowledgeable dressage people (they all had white bandages on) decided, after working in brillliantly for about 15 mins (daughter showing off with no stirrups) to take off, and I mean take off. Round and round she went, like greased lightening, on the 3rd lap the old dear obviously went in Sports Button Mode and went even faster. Eventually after I went in and shouted sh ground to a halt.... Dressage people speechless, small daughter a bit green round the gills. This pony is 26 yrs old and was sold as a schoolmaster....don't you just love the darlings? ?? (LOL) Mind you, the real laugh was 10 mins later she did her test, not too bad (probably the gallop freed her up a bit) then did a perfect halt. Then we were eliminated as we had forgotten to take her work boots off!!
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