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Post by sometime on Jan 17, 2013 17:28:22 GMT
I know many people neuter their dogs what I would like to know is if people are ever given the negatives as to why you should not spay or is the vet so keen to neuter everything you are only told the advantages There are many very good reasons not to spay or castrate dogs especially castrate male dogs are you told those reasons
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Post by 09rebel99 on Jan 17, 2013 17:57:27 GMT
No Ive never been told any advantages. Mine still hasnt had her first season yet and shes 1!!
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wilbs
Full Member
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Post by wilbs on Jan 17, 2013 18:11:30 GMT
unspayed bit*hes can get mammary tumours - spayed bit*hes don't. Having had an unspayed bit*h with tumours I have always had my bit*hes spayed.
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Post by sometime on Jan 17, 2013 18:16:42 GMT
Yes that is one of the advantages of spaying along with negating the 23% risk of pyometra but are you ever told that various other cancers risks are higher, that a spayed b!tch and even more so a castrated dog are at a huge risk of bone cancer especially medium to large dogs form a collie size upwards. The risk rises from about 2 % to 60 but that is beside the point were you actually told of the disadvantages or only the advantages. Were you able to make an informed decision or were you just advised that it would be better for your animal
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Post by vikki85 on Jan 17, 2013 18:28:36 GMT
I was never told of those disadvantages, no. But then, I was always going to get mine spayed so I'm not sure it would have changed my mind anyway.
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Post by GinaGeo on Jan 17, 2013 18:39:35 GMT
When I did work experience at a Veterinary Surgery the Vet I was shadowing told me that she'd always spay a bit*h, but wouldn't castrate a dog unless other external factors warrented it. She was referring to her own dogs at the time and was obviously considering the health implications. I don't have dogs, so she certainly wasn't trying to convince me of anything! I witnessed a couple of operations, where unspayed bit*hes were being operated on to remove mamary tumours.
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sarahp
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Post by sarahp on Jan 17, 2013 19:13:36 GMT
Only ever given the advantages, and I have asked all vets I've come across to give me some figures/refs to scientific papers (I'm used to reading this stuff) relating to the risks (23% risk of pyometra is news to me, thank you) but none have ever been able to. I've had two bad experiences when spaying bit*hes - one had a bad but not serious reaction to the GA, and the other undid all her stitches outside somewhere quiet and came walking across the lawn to me with all her guts hanging out...... So then when much loved c0cker went in to have a fatty lump removed from her back and we were rung for permission to spay and strip all her teats out while they were at as if there wasn't really any question of not doing it I wasn't too struck! Changed vets within the practice to one who could speak my language of probabilities instead of just doing as much medical intervention as possible and ended up by taking out the affected and their connected teats only. Sorry, can't remember to quote the exact figures now but it would have been a lot of operating on an already elderly dog to avoid a rather small risk.
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Post by sometime on Jan 17, 2013 19:44:33 GMT
Would you like the science Sarahp I find it bizarre that so many dogs are neutered and no one will give the pros and cons I wonder if neutering is just a nice little earner for vets sometimes The death rate for pyometra surgery is 1% of that 23% from the details I have read it is a very interesting subject although most of the research I can find is american, I would imagine to be fair that a few may die of pyometra before they get to surgery but I have no figures for that or the death rate from the actual spaying a healthy dog which of course is never discussed either
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Post by ikklecob on Jan 17, 2013 20:06:27 GMT
Personally I think unless it is a breeding dog it should be done male or female don't care. In fact I think it should be the law. There are far too many puppies and dogs in shelters because someone thought it might be nice to have just 1 litter, or the b1tch gets caught and people are too soft or too late to get it taken to the vets and dealt with.
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Post by lils on Jan 17, 2013 20:15:41 GMT
Personally I think unless it is a breeding dog it should be done male or female don't care. In fact I think it should be the law. There are far too many puppies and dogs in shelters because someone thought it might be nice to have just 1 litter, or the b1tch gets caught and people are too soft or too late to get it taken to the vets and dealt with. me too. Even if for 10 years, the excess would clear up, same with horses :/
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iwhp01
Junior Member
Posts: 109
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Post by iwhp01 on Jan 17, 2013 20:21:12 GMT
Spaying before the 1st season reduces the chances of mammary cancer to 0.5%. Between 1st and second season to 10%, and after the 2nd has very little effects. Pyometra predispositions include multiple seasons unmated leading to over stimulation of the uterine wall from the repeated cycles of oestrogen then progersterone... so spaying prevents the hormone cycle. Spaying also prevent false pregnancies... which can be very distressing, and are common in dogs.
Main disadvantage is the potential for urinary incontinence. Although if a major problem it is often easily controlled medically.
Neutering males removes chances for testicular cancer... which is often malignant and spreads v quickly. And greatly reduces likelihood of prostate problems as these are often testosterone dependant. (although doesn't affect cancer levels). Its thought to only affect the rate of bone cancers in dogs already predisposed to them. Delaying neutering in the breeds known to commonly get bone cancer may help. If your dog is not already a risky breed than it has little effect.
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Post by sometime on Jan 17, 2013 20:49:35 GMT
You are of course entitled to your opinion what I am asking is if you have a dog neutered are you ever told the advantages and DISADVANTAGES of neutering so are able to make an informed decision There is reported to be less than 1% chance of a dog getting testicular cancer which because people care for their dogs is often quickly seen and dealt with so rarely spreads. Any way it is not my place to pt the negatives just to ask if anyone is ever told of the horrendous consequences of neutering particularly male dogs.
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Post by sometime on Jan 17, 2013 21:03:31 GMT
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Post by nia2311 on Jan 17, 2013 21:04:05 GMT
I'm not a fan of castrating all male dogs as standard. My brother listened to his vet and castrated his choc lab. Despite a healthy diet and 2 long walks a day, he now owns a spherical labrador. I have personally witnessed this dog's diet and lifestyle and I cannot fault it - so frustrating when they are really trying to get weight off him.
Castrated males gain weight far too easily. Neither of our male dogs (black lab and collie) were castrated and both lived to 14yrs with nothing more than a touch of arthritis. I believe the benefits of spaying a female outweigh the negatives, with the reduction in mammary and uterine cancers, pyometra etc. So, I would spay females as standard, but only castrate males if needed.
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sarahp
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Post by sarahp on Jan 17, 2013 22:30:52 GMT
iwhp01 what is the incidence of mammary cancer in unspayed bit*hes?
sometime - thank you for all the links, I will look when I can, on the way to bed now! I do know someone who lost their young retriever very quickly from pyometra - in the car on the way to vet as an emergency. I'll come clean - our c0cker mentioned above had one later on, had the op and was fine - mind you I was on it very quickly. We now, ironically as I was refused rescue dogs because our dogs at home were entire, have two neutered dogs. The male was a rescue so it was a condition of his adoption, and then our original bit*h started having so many false pregnancies that spaying was advised and carried out without a hitch. I'm not sure what any of this proves, I can only say it's anecdotal so doesn't count as evidence for or against!
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Post by sometime on Jan 17, 2013 23:11:26 GMT
I have no objection what so ever to people neutering dogs what I object to is the lack of information given to those making the decision. I dont spay or castrate my dogs except as a medical necessity. I cannot bring myself to willingly cause pain and risk surgery unless it is necessary when of course any animal should have the best care possible. Currently I am not an advocate of colic surgery for horses as the risks can and do outway the benefits for many I would rather PTS at the minute but no doubt many will disagree with this too. If the survival rate was higher and the recovery less traumatic I may well change my mind but to spend thousands of pounds and inflict excruciating pain on an animal for more to die at the time or shortly after seems a bit cruel.
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sarahp
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Post by sarahp on Jan 18, 2013 9:16:47 GMT
I agree, been there, done that sometime. In many other countries they regard neutering dogs as undesirable if not cruel.
As for colic surgery and other major interventions on horses, I agree up to a point - any needs very careful weighing up and I have in the past refused to take mine through long, painful courses of treatment. Their age comes into it too. Talking facts and figures, I don't have any death rates for colic surgery - do you? - but I think they need looking at carefully. For example early intervention at a top class horspital would most likely to have a far lower death rate than those who only get to the operating theatre very late in the day as a last resort after a more general vet has given up on non-surgery methods and it then has to be transported to the referral centre, just as an example.
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Post by honeypot on Jan 18, 2013 15:06:43 GMT
I have a beautiful rotweilerX who I rehomed. I have always had rescue dogs and they are neutered as standard. This b1tch came from a litter of 10 puppies she has a beautiful happy nature but the thought of having to find home for cross breed puppies fill me with dread. I have discussed fully with my vets the pros amd cons of having her spayed and we decided to waite till after her first season which she has had, due to the possibilty of incontinence.I did most of my research on google before I had even spoken to a vet, there were loads on rottweilers. My friend has 4 dogs who always manage to get caught and sometime inbreed, I just wish she would have them done.
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Post by sometime on Jan 18, 2013 15:36:27 GMT
There is no excuse for that though that is irresponsible and if people cannot be responsible for their pet they should either not have one r only have one sex or if they must have both sexes and cant take care of them then as a last resort spay or neuter. There is no accounting for numpties
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iwhp01
Junior Member
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Post by iwhp01 on Jan 18, 2013 18:01:43 GMT
Sarahp-
Without trawling through papers (am revising for finals atm!) cancer is attributable for 40-45% of canine mortality. 50% of tumours found in bit*hes are primarily mammay cancer, of which half are malignant.
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sarahp
Happy to help
Posts: 9,510
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Post by sarahp on Jan 18, 2013 20:12:27 GMT
Many thanks, and do keep on revising, I'll have a play with the figures. Good luck in the finals.
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Post by sectiondcrazy on Jan 25, 2013 21:15:15 GMT
I got a german shepherd x labrador puppy just before christmas.....on the vets advice she will go to be spayed at 6 months regardless of whether shes had her 1st season or not.
We were going to leave my 5 year old german shepherd 'entire' until he was a bit older but he was castrated at approximately 1 year old due to an undecended testicle which had a risk of turning cancerous!!
xx
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Post by Philippa on Jan 25, 2013 21:48:11 GMT
All vets advise spaying and neutering nowadays. It seems to be programmed into their brains. We show our dogs so do not have ours done. In fact we've never had one done and never had a tumour yet in 40 years.
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Post by groom395 on Jan 28, 2013 13:07:33 GMT
our spaniel is now 10 and never castrated, he hasent been used for stud and always been kept in the house and garden however he has started occasionally to bleed from his private area and i am going to ask the vet what he thinks
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