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Post by brt on Mar 10, 2013 11:12:43 GMT
There are many registered "crossbreeds" at Crufts, why should the Labradoodles not be included?
One of my dogs is a totally manufactured breed, bred by the Russian Red Star Army (after many failed attempts i might add) He was bred to do a job, which he does very very well and is recognised by the kennel Club. He is a real mish mash too! 30% Giant Schnauzer 30% Rottweiler 30% Airdale and 10% New Foundland. As long as they are proven to do a job, as the Labrdoodle is, then why should it be excluded ??
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halfpass
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Post by halfpass on Mar 10, 2013 11:26:40 GMT
Oh for gods sake why can't they leave Crufts alone for the Pedigree dogs. Regardless of beliefs it was originally started to show off the Pedigree dog , with all the rights and wrongs that go with that, if you don't like a breed or type of dog don't buy one. If the owners of mongrels want a world class show let them organize there own. Lets not destroy another of our great institutions
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sarahp
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Post by sarahp on Mar 10, 2013 11:35:29 GMT
I do rather agree halfpass. Not that I'm against crossbreds (unless given a silly name and charged an arm and a leg for), we ourselves have one known cross and one rescue with no history.
In the beginning all breeds of livestock are crosses, they earn the title of being a breed when they breed true to type, which I didn't think labradoodles do yet, certainly every one I meet seems to have a different coat type and physique. I don't know what your breed is brt but maybe they have got to the "breeding true" stage and the figures you give are those of the original constituents of the now breed in its own right.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2013 11:47:46 GMT
Sarah I think there is a scrufs I was thinking of debuting the schitzel or chiweenie (chihuahua x daschund). I don't know who would breed a Mexican companion dog and a badger hunter. ( I rescued her). Anyway she'd scare most of the spectators with her if ugly mug. On a serious note, I don't agree with crossbreeds being a part of a pedigree ahow but maybe they could run along side crufts as a separate event. On the same days then people can pick and choose what they want to go and look at. Thing i find is there is too much variation in cross breeds. I have never see a chiweenie the same as my schitzel. Where as if I wanted another lab like my old boy I'd have plenty to pick from.
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Post by brt on Mar 10, 2013 11:50:29 GMT
He is a Black Russian Terrier, yes they do have a breed standard, right down to how many light hairs they are allowed. He certainly isn't a designer dog, they are bred as Man Stoppers, used by the German Police and prisons. They are used in riot situations as are low aggresion dogs but not for a novice dog owner. Not many left in this country as the gene pool is too narrow but also wasn't stupidly priced like some smaller breeds.
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Post by 09rebel99 on Mar 10, 2013 12:30:03 GMT
I have a cross breed a 50% dogue de bordoux 25% staff 25% pressa. She was an accident and was a litter of 10, cost £200 at 13 wks and is a bloomin fantastic dog!! We do the fun shows by us and she LOVES agility!! I also have a staff who cost £100 at 9 wks. I couldn't believe how much the cross breeds were up for when I was looking. I love watching crufts and personally would like it to be kept as a pedigree show. Someone I know and her daughter have labradoodles, 1 is tiny and absolutly crackers and the other is massive!! Ps my dogs have a full time job, trashing my garden and my house, they exel at it :-) Did like the lab also but like a few others in the line up more but labs aren't really my type.
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Post by Guestless on Mar 10, 2013 12:34:30 GMT
I'm moving this to the dog area. I know it was a guest who started the thread but I can't see any reason for it being an anonymous thread.
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sarahp
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Post by sarahp on Mar 10, 2013 16:15:56 GMT
I certainly didn't intend to imply he was a designer dog brt, it sounded as if he was a proper breed by now from what you said, just clarifying.
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Post by brt on Mar 10, 2013 16:24:19 GMT
I know you didn't Sarahp, I said it as a general comment, not aimed at you. Lots of crosses have become the "in thing" hence why breeders can charge what i consider an extortionate price, whilst the cross is to be blunt, totally useless unless being dressed up and carried in a handbag is a job........
Our dog was researched and bought as he fitted the bill of what we wanted, low aggression, good recall but formidable, as i live here alone all week. He is very switched on but quiet, if he barks 100% of the time someone is either at the gates of passing. He also quietly alerts me if any of the ponies are in trouble or sick. He is a real asset around here.
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Post by Philippa on Mar 10, 2013 17:08:56 GMT
If cross breeding was regulated like we are regulated by the KC I wouldn't have as much of a problem with it (hmmm, no, I probably would). As KC breeders we have rules & regs to follow, we strive to better the breed and try to ensure every home is for the right reason. We breed when we want another dog to bring out in the ring, not to fund our pony or dog showing. Our breeds are not straight forward breeders and it takes time and money to bring these pups into the world and keep them alive!!
Many people who breed designer cross breeds do it for all the wrong reasons and I'm sorry but not many people can disagree with that.
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Post by viking on Mar 10, 2013 17:26:22 GMT
If cross breeding was regulated like we are regulated by the KC I wouldn't have as much of a problem with it (hmmm, no, I probably would). As KC breeders we have rules & regs to follow, we strive to better the breed and try to ensure every home is for the right reason. We breed when we want another dog to bring out in the ring, not to fund our pony or dog showing. Our breeds are not straight forward breeders and it takes time and money to bring these pups into the world and keep them alive!! Many people who breed designer cross breeds do it for all the wrong reasons and I'm sorry but not many people can disagree with that. I think it could also be said that some pedigree dog owners breed for the wrong reasons, that being solely to make money, and little thought goes into it beyond that point.
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halfpass
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Post by halfpass on Mar 10, 2013 17:49:16 GMT
If cross breeding was regulated like we are regulated by the KC I wouldn't have as much of a problem with it (hmmm, no, I probably would). As KC breeders we have rules & regs to follow, we strive to better the breed and try to ensure every home is for the right reason. We breed when we want another dog to bring out in the ring, not to fund our pony or dog showing. Our breeds are not straight forward breeders and it takes time and money to bring these pups into the world and keep them alive!! Many people who breed designer cross breeds do it for all the wrong reasons and I'm sorry but not many people can disagree with that. I think it could also be said that some pedigree dog owners breed for the wrong reasons, that being solely to make money, and little thought goes into it beyond that point. I think you maybe confusing good breeders from puppy farmers, all the propper regulated breeders that I know don't make much from breeding their dogs by the time the costs come out. If they were breeding for the money they'd all go into designer dogs, they make more money.
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Post by viking on Mar 10, 2013 18:22:36 GMT
I think it could also be said that some pedigree dog owners breed for the wrong reasons, that being solely to make money, and little thought goes into it beyond that point. I think you maybe confusing good breeders from puppy farmers, all the propper regulated breeders that I know don't make much from breeding their dogs by the time the costs come out. If they were breeding for the money they'd all go into designer dogs, they make more money. I am afraid you are mistaken hafpass.
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dazycutter
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Post by dazycutter on Mar 10, 2013 18:38:06 GMT
Have to say all the pedigree breeders I know breed to improve the breed. KC regs are pretty stringent now. Know a few people who breed these designer dogs for money though
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halfpass
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Post by halfpass on Mar 10, 2013 18:41:49 GMT
I think you maybe confusing good breeders from puppy farmers, all the propper regulated breeders that I know don't make much from breeding their dogs by the time the costs come out. If they were breeding for the money they'd all go into designer dogs, they make more money. I am afraid you are mistaken hafpass. We obviously mix with different types of breeder and will have to agree to disagree
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dazycutter
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Post by dazycutter on Mar 10, 2013 18:57:57 GMT
Halfpass, there are unscrupulous breeders out there unfortunately, but at least the KC are clamping down making it harder for them.. Shame a lot of the pony and horse societies don't do the same... Only breed at a certain age.. KC yes, equines - no Only breed so many per period KC yes, equines no Only register them if certain genetic testing is done. KC yes, equines no Only so many breeding per life of the mother KC yes, Equines no rest my case really.... any way back to the original question... still haven't seen the doodles in the ring...
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kayjayem
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Post by kayjayem on Mar 10, 2013 19:03:00 GMT
Unfortunately a lot of people will buy a pedigree puppy and think that it would be nice to have a litter of puppies "for the children" and yes some do it to make money the logic being if I paid £600 for a puppy multiply that & hey presto so you cannot generalise who does it for money or not. I also know a breeder of pedigree dogs who makes an absolute fortune and quite openly admits it and to be fair why not, it's a business and she is very good at it and the pups want for nothing and are selectively bred so it isn't true that there isn't money to be made. On the other hand I know of several breeders of crossbreds who carry out all the necessary health checks so why should they not ask the same amount for a puppy if the input has been the same. I know some breeders of pure bred dogs get very tetchy if they think they are losing out on a sale but fortunately we live in a free country(just about) and it is up to the individual where they want to put their money.
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Post by mara on Mar 10, 2013 19:04:28 GMT
I've come across far more labradoodles that still smell of lab & cast than don't! I've also come across some verrrry odd shaped ones.
I love a good working lab, I also love a good standard poodle (not keen on the minis I must admit).
I also love a 'proper' mongrel that noone can quite tell what the full mix is but I am not keen on all this purposeful mixing of breeds to produce something that is rather hit and miss at the moment.
People don't seem to realise what great family dogs a pure standard poodle can be & if lamb clipped they don't look silly!
Many of the 'odder' looking clips were actually developed to allow the poodle to work all day in cold water but still keep the muscles warm - look at the Portugese water dog - exactly the same hair coverage over the shoulder mass as the lion clip.
Would I go & watch the mixed breed classes if allowed at Crufts - no - if they were 'type' classes such as we have for horses - hunter, cob etc then I would be more interested.
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dazycutter
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Post by dazycutter on Mar 10, 2013 19:07:16 GMT
MM, wise words...
must say though although, yes there is money to be made, if you counted the hours taking care of the little ones, wouldn't amount to much,..... I think I worked it our with my last litter 2 years ago and I earned £1.50 an hour... PMSL
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dazycutter
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Post by dazycutter on Mar 10, 2013 19:08:01 GMT
He is a Black Russian Terrier, yes they do have a breed standard, right down to how many light hairs they are allowed. Met a couple of those at Frankfurt airport.. that is one big scary looking woofer....
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kayjayem
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Post by kayjayem on Mar 10, 2013 19:10:07 GMT
I've come across far more labradoodles that still smell of lab & cast than don't! LOL!! Haven't heard of trying to breed out smell, not selling labs very well there Must admit my labradoodle doesn't smell and casts very little, she is far easier to maintain than my standard poodle ;D
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dazycutter
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Post by dazycutter on Mar 10, 2013 19:11:54 GMT
People don't seem to realise what great family dogs a pure standard poodle can be & if lamb clipped they don't look silly! . how rude..... ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D Actually the show clip on standards is how they were worked... as they are water retrievers, the big mane acts as a bouncy aid, the clipped body to allow speed in the water, and the poms on the joints to protect them. I love standard poodles... I used to handle one for a friend in the ring.....they are a fantastic breed.
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dazycutter
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Post by dazycutter on Mar 10, 2013 19:12:36 GMT
I've come across far more labradoodles that still smell of lab & cast than don't! LOL!! Haven't heard of trying to breed out smell, not selling labs very well there Must admit my labradoodle doesn't smell and casts very little, she is far easier to maintain than my standard poodle ;D what does a lab smell of compared to other breeds?
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Post by brindlerainbow on Mar 10, 2013 19:45:03 GMT
I think breeders fall into 3 catergories - puppy farmers who breed for money and the dogs and pups live in unsuitable conditions, KC accredited breeders who want to improve their breed and back street breeders who have a pure bred but not neccesarily registered b*tch and their friend up the road has a registered/unregistered pure bred dog ( of the same breed ) and they are doing it purely for the money. You only have to look on sites like Preloved to see litter after litter of pedigree pups for sale but who haven't passed the health checks that the particular breed need checking for. So unfortunately there are plenty of people who breed pedigree dogs soley for how much money they are going to make, it's not just the designer dog breeders who are at fault.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2013 19:58:36 GMT
Mongrels at Crufts!! Wow. that's fab! Here's my entry - Bruce - our three year old border terrier/jack russell cross
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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2013 19:59:51 GMT
And here is Bruce again in full makeup - just in case he's not glam enough for the world's greatest dog show
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dazycutter
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Post by dazycutter on Mar 10, 2013 20:02:08 GMT
Would be my winner every time
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kayjayem
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Post by kayjayem on Mar 10, 2013 20:02:34 GMT
And here is Bruce again in full makeup - just in case he's not glam enough for the world's greatest dog show A designer dog at his best!! (hope he wear Lynx for Dudes too!) ;D
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Post by Julie(luke3) on Mar 10, 2013 20:03:49 GMT
Love him , but he smells soooo much!!! Lol
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dazycutter
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Post by dazycutter on Mar 10, 2013 20:06:19 GMT
Sorry though lotti as he would be disqualified as no coat enhancers are allowed at dog shows. LOL
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