HELP required with my 5yr old filly

[bozybabe]

I have a just turned 4 year old filly. She is fabulous under saddle, in open spaces and jumping...however she is a complete nightmare when tied up. I have tried the 15 minute technique so she is not stressed, tried talking to her whilst grooming etc but she constantly spins around and is very bolshy and bargy. She was brought as my daughters second pony and unfortunately her ground manners are so bad that my daughter is unable to groom her for her own safety. She hates her tail and back end touched whilst tied up, however once you untie her and let her graze away from the tie-up area then she is fine and you can do everything with her. Any ideas how to overcome this. I have never had a young one before so any advice is gratefully received as I want to persevere myself with her rather than send her to a trainer.

[zetasmum]

I'm sorry to hear your mare is distressed when tied up. This isn't safe for her or you and your daughter.

Horses learn from the release of pressure. In this case the pressure is being tied up. The release/reward is being untied. You want to reward her for being good not for being bolshy.

Before you start working on this you would be better establishing some ground rules about keeping a horse out of your space.

The most important thing is that you need to establish control over her feet - forward, backward, left and right.

There are loads of ways to get your horse more respectful on the ground - learn them before you worry about tying the horse up. Any of the horsemanship systems - (in no particular order) intelligent horsemanship, parelli, downunder horsemanship, equus, natural horsemanship, etc, will show you how and there is loads of advice for free on youtube - you will soon find which system you feel comfortable with but you will have to keep reviewing the method and thinking about how you are doing it in order to perfect it if you do not have a personal coach at your side.

(For example:
While your mare is held by you on a long lead rein (15ft) get her used to moving away from you laterally by keeping your thumb or a knuckle firm and pressing it into her side if she gets too close while you are at her side. When she moves away from you she automatically releases the pressure because she is no longer pressing into your thumb. Keep doing this and she will keep out of your space to avoid being uncomfortable.

Lots of horsemanship people will use this method. Parelli call this the porcupine game and they may use anything hard to make their point - the real issue is that you do not follow the horse - it moves out of your space and the pressure is released = job done.)


When you feel that you have more control over your horses feet, I would try to take 20 seconds tying up as a starting point, or even 10 seconds or even 5seconds - whatever you can do as a starting point - do it then untie her and give her a rub.


Ideally you are looking for a sign that the horse has relaxed before you let her go - cock a leg, drop her head, lick her lips, sigh, blink etc. but if you are looking for 5 seconds then 5 seconds is good enough and the pressure should be released.

Slowly build up the amount of time she is tied up before being released and don't even think of grooming until she will stand still for a good while.

When you feel you can start trying to groom her, start with her withers and stay at a 45 degree angle to her shoulder to keep safe.Use a stick as an extension of your arm to scratch her so you keep in the safe spot. Start by scratching the air a foot away from her withers for a few seconds then step back (releasing the pressure) and give her a rub on her face. Then to scratch the air closer to her withers, release and rub, and then scratch the actual withers. The horse should always show a sign of relaxing before you release pressure or stand still for the required amount of time (usually 15 seconds, depending on your starting point).

After the withers you can probably move directly down to the back but keep your feet in the safe spot (you will need a long stick like the cowboys use - they are very handy because they have a leather loop on the end which is good for scratching with. Warning: sticks are easy to mis-use which is another reason why you must keep reviewing what you are doing.)

When you work on the withers on her other side you have to start from the beginning, scratching the air first - You will be working with the other side of the horse's brain and you have to teach each side separately.

Do try to have a look at the different systems before you do anything with the pony tied up - the underpinning idea of respect on the ground takes several hours of tuition  and includes a wide range of techniques not just one porcupine game.  this response is only meant as a very brief taster.

Remember, be patient. If she had 4 years to learn a bad habit it wont be cured in one go. She sounds a lovely pony except for this one issue so it will be a wonderful achievement to help her be more relaxed and well worth the effort.

[sarahp]

Brilliant post above.

I'll just add what I do re teaching my weaned foals to tie up - having done the stuff above first, but much easier with blank sheet foals that have not been frightened.

I have a post concreted into the ground with a short thick rubber bungee attached to it (which will break in extremis to be safe), and when I feel the time is right for them - remember they will by then be happy to be held by the head anyway - they are attached to the bungee. I don't leave them unattended or let them fight but stand behind and if they pull back even slightly push them forward into it from behind. Again, they are learning for themselves that to move into the pressure will reduce it.

Having witnessed an accident years ago, I feel very strongly that all horses and ponies should learn to be held by the head and not frightened by it. Some are only really taught to stand by whatever they're tied to without learning about head pressure, and if one of those, tied say to a lorry at a show, is spooked by something it can pull back, panic and then REALLY fight until something breaks, hopefully the bit of string, if used, or the headcollar. They can learn very easily though that bits of string do break and use it to their advantage to get loose.

[hedgehopper]

Agree with zetasmum,but worth remembering that if you use baler twine to create a tie loop,that it is now made to be much stronger,and will need to be thinned so that it does break under pressure.

[sarahp]

And remember that if they learn they can break baler twine it can be a real problem!