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Post by Eek on Sept 1, 2015 19:33:17 GMT
I am a member but posting anonymously as I really don't want all and sundry knowing my business. I have a mare with a nodular sarcoid and the vet is suggesting a few different treatments so I was wondering what people's experiences were with them. The sarcoid has come up quite quickly and is a large painless lump just behind her teats at the very top of one back leg. It's quite firm to touch but feels mobile with just the skin holding it in place if that makes sense.
There is the Liverpool cream which he says would have to be put on a bandage and wrapped round the sarcoid.
Blood root treatment
Operation which would involve general anesthetic and the whole sarcoid may not be removed and would therefore require either Liverpool cream afterwards or freezing treatment
Some success stories would be good, particularly if you have experience of a similar sounding sarcoid that has appeared quickly
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Post by dancer on Sept 1, 2015 19:43:14 GMT
Not a nodular sarcoid - ours was flat (slightly domed) on the chest (can't remember the correct name!). We treated with blood root cream & thuja tablets while waiting for results of the biopsy from Liverpool, by the time they responded (recommending Liverpool cream!) the sarcoid had shrunk significantly so we carried on with the thuja/blood root until it completely disappeared.
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Post by honeypot on Sept 1, 2015 19:49:48 GMT
My homebred youngster had one on his chest at two,it got to the size of a small cherry tomato, it was in between his front legs. The vet gave me two options laser under GA, or Liverpool cream and I chose the cream. It was just applied every two days and about a month or so after treatment it fell off. If you rub really hard you can just about feel where it was. I choose when he had it done, which was only when he caught it and it stated to bleed, which was middle of spring when the mud had dried up but there were no flies. I I can imagine with your mare it would be in a hard place to reach I would go with benign neglect unless it is causing a problem and it will give you longer to think about it.
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Post by judyh on Sept 1, 2015 20:24:39 GMT
My horse had one on the top of his hind leg inside it. I put him on Thuga tablets and cream for about 2 months. It was under the skin all that time. It burst through the skin through being rubbed by his rug strap. I then put Camrosa on it. It looked awful , vary red and angry. I decided to give it a week and was then going to ring the vet. In that week it dropped off leaving a small round wound. I continued with Camrosa and Thuga cream ( one at night the other in a morning). It has now totally healed. Years ago a mare had one and my vet was putting a lambing ring on it when it popped out. She never had another. Both growths on these horses were small.
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Post by ThisletonStud on Sept 1, 2015 20:36:05 GMT
One of my boys had a huge sarcoid on his sheath. Several small nodular ones in thighs and around sheath. The big one oozed and smelt and was generally disgusting bless him. We tried alsorts of remedies. Nothing worked. So it was time for a medical decision. Either Liverpool cream or laser removal under GA. Liverpool cream cost as much as laser with less positive results. So bit the bullet and went for laser. Fantastic result. Very sore pony afterwards with gaping holes but they got the root of each one and has healed wonderfully with barely any scaring. So nice to see him sarcoid free and out of pain. Definitely recommend however the thought of GA is very scary.
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Post by Eek on Sept 1, 2015 22:07:55 GMT
One of my boys had a huge sarcoid on his sheath. Several small nodular ones in thighs and around sheath. The big one oozed and smelt and was generally disgusting bless him. We tried alsorts of remedies. Nothing worked. So it was time for a medical decision. Either Liverpool cream or laser removal under GA. Liverpool cream cost as much as laser with less positive results. So bit the bullet and went for laser. Fantastic result. Very sore pony afterwards with gaping holes but they got the root of each one and has healed wonderfully with barely any scaring. So nice to see him sarcoid free and out of pain. Definitely recommend however the thought of GA is very scary. It's the size of my mare's sarcoid that makes me want to do something about it. It does seem to be painless though as she will let it be squeezed and poked or prodded without a reaction (and she doesn't normally like anyone near her teats). I was hoping to put her up for sale, but this seems pointless unless I can find a way of getting rid of it as I wouldn't want to pass my problems on to someone else. Thank you everyone for your responses so far.
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Post by clifton on Sept 1, 2015 22:42:31 GMT
have you thought about trying turmeric first, look at the turmeric user group on facebook for information, I have seen some fantastic results
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Post by ThisletonStud on Sept 2, 2015 8:05:12 GMT
Be very careful with Tumeric as it can increase tissue growth. This is the last thing you want with a sarcoid.
We tried it and it grew and oozed so much more after Tumeric. Possible coincidence? However we will never know.
If you can go for the laser treatment. It's dealt with a lot quicker and you should get it seen too sooner rather than later. Is your mare insured? If not it will set you back about £2k! Every penny was worth it for our boy though.
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Post by Carrots&Mints on Sept 2, 2015 9:09:39 GMT
Mine went to Leahurst in March as he had one on his sheath. He was under GA and they lasered it off and dug right deep to the root. Was abit gory at first but healed in about 4/5 weeks approx. They did stitch it up but his sheath was so swollen the stiching burst so had the vet out every other day sedating him and cleaning it! Was abit traumatic at the time and luckily everything was done on the insurance so that was breath of fresh air. I wouldnt reccomend using any of the alternative things such as toothpaste, lamb bands etc. PM me as I have some photos of how the laser treatment went
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Post by kateanne0 on Sept 2, 2015 10:34:48 GMT
One of our mares had terrible sarcoids round her eyes and one on her neck. Vet suggested Leahurst and she would need to be in about 10 days. She had 3 different types of sarcoids, can't remember the names, - cost estimate £4k and no guarantee of success because of the location.
We decided against Leahurst and went with a treatment suggested by our physiotherapist. Thuja cream and Thuja tablets with Sarcex herbal mix every 2 months as a booster.
It took about 9 months for them all to go. Her skin looked a bit, well a lot, like elephant skin, however, we massaged in aqueous cream twice a day, her skin became more supple and all the hair completely grew back. Now, you would never know she had any sarcoids at all.
Thuja cream and tablets are available on the Internet, Horse Health Supplies for equine strength tablets.
If you decide to go ahead and try this painless method, I suggest you put a light baby cream (Bepanthen, zinc and castor oil, etc) around the sarcoid but not on it, before you apply the Thuja cream, this prevents the skin around the area of the sarcoid being treated as well and you probably won't get the leathery skin problem.
With this method, patience is required. I can send a photo by email if anyone wants to see what the sarcoids looked like, pm me your email address.
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Post by becki2810 on Sept 2, 2015 10:49:36 GMT
I have just got rid of 2 very large sarcoids using black treacle believe it or not.
I have also used this previously with success.
I was told about it by a breeder and never thought it would work...even the vet couldn't believe the results!
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Post by sageandonionagain on Sept 2, 2015 12:38:21 GMT
I would want to opt for the most simple and cost effective treatment first and you then have places to go if that is not successful. Nodular sarcoids are usually easy to remove by old fashioned banding by the vet if it is in a place where this is possible. Talk it through with your vet. Other than that your vet is the one to decide what is best for your mare. It matters not what we think and what has been successful for others. Each sarcoid and horse are unique.
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Post by kateanne0 on Sept 2, 2015 14:30:51 GMT
I agree with sageandonionagain, however, sometimes human treatments do work for most sarcoid cases. Thuja is used on humans for wart removal; I always think if I can use it, the horse should be ok, but this theory cannot be taken for granted
If it was a particularly nasty sarcoid in an advanced state, I might not go for the thuja treatment.
I would always talk to the vet/let the vet see the horse and go from there. Unfortunately, I don't know many vets that favour herbal/holistic/homeopathic remedies.
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Post by YeeeHaaaa!!!! on Sept 3, 2015 11:29:28 GMT
I had a Pony who had two quite large ones appear on his sheath and had them both lasered off, looked scary to start with as looked like two bloody holes in the side of his sheath but healed remarkably well and you can't even tell they were there as just left a minimal scar. I had also had one lasered off my other horses eye (above her eyelid) and again healed amazingly well with minimal scarring would choose laser everytime x
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Post by Eek on Sept 3, 2015 17:07:38 GMT
If you can go for the laser treatment. It's dealt with a lot quicker and you should get it seen too sooner rather than later. Is your mare insured? If not it will set you back about £2k! She's not insured sadly as I have several ponies and I decided to opt out of insuring them a few years ago having never made a claim and paying out a fortune in premiums. She's a nice pony, but not a top class show pony so I couldn't justify a £2k bill. I've been told the Liverpool Cream would be around £400-500 by the time I pay for vets visits to administer it. I will go down that road if I have to but I would like to try something less dramatic/traumatic first. I'm thinking about getting some herbs/ointment from someone on FB - has anyone tried them? It says there is a money back guarantee if you don't see any difference, so that may be worth a go? www.facebook.com/pages/Sarcoids-melanomas-or-skin-problems/213558632054490?fref=ts
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Post by flee on Sept 3, 2015 18:46:26 GMT
They can disappear as suddenly as they appear so don't rush into anything . Support the immune system with a supplement to help it fight the virus and be patient , it can take weeks or months but in my experience they generally go without intervention , and even the huge ones ( had one of those !) leave barely a mark . Stockholm Tar is good if it looks a bit raw and weepy - keeps the flies off and helps dry it out .
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Post by judyh on Sept 3, 2015 19:05:46 GMT
I would go down the Thuga route first.
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Post by ThisletonStud on Sept 3, 2015 20:24:39 GMT
If you can go for the laser treatment. It's dealt with a lot quicker and you should get it seen too sooner rather than later. Is your mare insured? If not it will set you back about £2k! She's not insured sadly as I have several ponies and I decided to opt out of insuring them a few years ago having never made a claim and paying out a fortune in premiums. She's a nice pony, but not a top class show pony so I couldn't justify a £2k bill. I've been told the Liverpool Cream would be around £400-500 by the time I pay for vets visits to administer it. I will go down that road if I have to but I would like to try something less dramatic/traumatic first. I'm thinking about getting some herbs/ointment from someone on FB - has anyone tried them? It says there is a money back guarantee if you don't see any difference, so that may be worth a go? www.facebook.com/pages/Sarcoids-melanomas-or-skin-problems/213558632054490?fref=tsNightmare isn't it. I've 10 horses and the pony who had sarcoids wasn't insured either. I just had to not eat for a few months lol. Good luck and keep us updated.
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Post by kateanne0 on Sept 4, 2015 18:49:13 GMT
If you can go for the laser treatment. It's dealt with a lot quicker and you should get it seen too sooner rather than later. Is your mare insured? If not it will set you back about £2k! She's not insured sadly as I have several ponies and I decided to opt out of insuring them a few years ago having never made a claim and paying out a fortune in premiums. She's a nice pony, but not a top class show pony so I couldn't justify a £2k bill. I've been told the Liverpool Cream would be around £400-500 by the time I pay for vets visits to administer it. I will go down that road if I have to but I would like to try something less dramatic/traumatic first. I'm thinking about getting some herbs/ointment from someone on FB - has anyone tried them? It says there is a money back guarantee if you don't see any difference, so that may be worth a go? www.facebook.com/pages/Sarcoids-melanomas-or-skin-problems/213558632054490?fref=tsRead a couple of the items above your post, there are some suggestions there
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Post by flee on Sept 5, 2015 12:46:46 GMT
The thing with sarcoids is that they are so random and unpredictable that you can never tell if something has genuinely 'cured' them or if they have just disappeared of their own accord . If you've paid out significant amounts of money for some magical potion or wonder cream and the sarcoid goes then you're going to want to believe that it was money well spent and that it cured the problem . I've had a number of horses with sarcoids over the past 40+ years and to be honest I just leave them to run their course without any intervention other than feeding an immune-system supporting supplement and keeping the sarcoid clean and dry . Every single case has resolved itself and they have varied from small single sarcoids to a mare with perhaps a dozen of varying size which spread over her udder and inner thighs . The last occurrence was a couple of years ago when a sarcoid appeared on the chest of a pony one day in early January . It grew rapidly and within a couple of months had grown to the size of a golf ball and literally dangled between her legs . It didn't seem to bother her in the least and it didn't interfere with ridden work although , obviously , showing was out of the question . By the end of April it was still dangling there but seemed to have stopped growing and then in the middle of May it suddenly 'burst' so that it was a horrible raw lump suspended on a string .I kept it as clean as possible ( hydrogen peroxide and Stockholm Tar ) and though it never seemed to give the pony any pain or bother I did get worried we might have problems with flies and a secondary infection . I had just got to the point were I had resigned myself to calling the vet when I went to fetch her in from the field one day and realised the sarcoid had dropped off .And that was that ! It left barely a mark considering the size of it and all the stretched skin returned to normal - you would never know it had been there . I guess I could have claimed it was the hydrogen peroxide or the Stockholm Tar that did it , or it could have been Dettol and Sudocreme .I may be a bit cynical but I'm very wary of these 'wonder products' whose only claim to success is the testimony of some member of Joe Public whose dog/cat/horse got better at some point after they slapped the product on . I prefer to give nature a chance first , the body is very good at healing itself. Doesn't mean you can't give it a bit of help but I like a bit of real scientific proof before I part with my hard earned cash . Perhaps worth mentioning too that it was the vet I called out to deal with the first case of sarcoids I had , many years ago , who told me to leave well alone and see what happened . Also not knocking Liverpool Cream or laser treatment as I have no experience of either of these treatments .
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Post by dancer on Sept 5, 2015 20:58:10 GMT
Flee, I have had a similar!at experience with 2 ponies. We had 3 with various looking growths which the vet identified as different types of sarcoids, photos etc were sent to Liverpool for diagnosis - it took weeks to get a reply & in that time we treated 1 pony with thuja tablets & cream but left the other 2, by the time Liverpool responded (recommending their cream for all 3 ponies) the sarcoids on every pony had disappeared! I think we bought 2 or 3 lots of tablets & 1 pot of cream for a total cost of £35.00
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Post by neveragain on Sept 5, 2015 22:36:50 GMT
We had a mare that had 5 sarcoids Liverpool cream didn't work so vets suggested laser 4 went completely but the last one got so aggressive we had her pts ? they are so unpredictable
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sarahp
Happy to help
Posts: 9,510
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Post by sarahp on Sept 6, 2015 8:04:35 GMT
I'm very much with flee re "miracle cures" - I only believe after proper research trials. Nutritional supplements can be a different matter though. I've had very few sarcoids here, and only one that was treated - banded by the vet and dropped off. Another near the eye on an old mare had been inactive for years but suddenly started increasing in size - immune system getting less active as she aged perhaps? - and she had had three lovely foals for me so she was pts. Vet had advised treatment would be tricky because of its placement.
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Post by rosefinch on Sept 6, 2015 9:32:02 GMT
For me best way has been to band and use salve cream you can get off ebay. Although I have a pony that didn't respond to this as the vet missed the stalk on the first banding. My vet has now started using an injection it costs £100 a time and he has needed two but it has almost gone now. They inject into the sarcoid has taken around 12 weeks to go x
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sarahp
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Post by sarahp on Sept 6, 2015 11:10:52 GMT
Not all are suitable for banding of course, there are various different varieties of sarcoids, one reason why I'd ask vet in the first instance but I trust mine not to waste my money unnecessarily - mine aren't insured for vets' fees.
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Post by ThisletonStud on Sept 6, 2015 19:18:54 GMT
I've another pony that's got a few sarcoids. I've never bothered trying to remove them, they fall off and regrow! The boy we had laser treatment on clearly was in pain, annoyed and was continually getting smelly infections despite regular cleaning. That's why we opted for laser. We too put him on an immune booster and bugger me the thing grew as if the immune booster was feeding right too it! Maybe coincidence again but it shrunk when we stopped the immuboost
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Post by Eek on Sept 7, 2015 13:49:24 GMT
They can disappear as suddenly as they appear so don't rush into anything . Support the immune system with a supplement to help it fight the virus and be patient , it can take weeks or months but in my experience they generally go without intervention , and even the huge ones ( had one of those !) leave barely a mark . Stockholm Tar is good if it looks a bit raw and weepy - keeps the flies off and helps dry it out . That's encouraging. Fingers crossed that my mare's will be the same. I've bought the herbs mentioned above which I imagine will be a bit like the ones you mentioned to fight the virus. They smell lovely; I don't know what all the ingredients are but there must be some fennel or something similar as there is a strong aniseed smell and my mare seems to like the taste. Thanks again folks. I was expecting lots of "don't dabble with sarcoids" comments but you're all being very nice.
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Post by NHSfan on Sept 7, 2015 21:56:43 GMT
I have now had two with sarcoids and will tell you what I did and what happened. Take all advice at face value, discuss with your vet, and make up your won mind.
Pony One - Three large sarcoids on sheath and one on the corner of his eye. He had Liverpool cream, administered by my vet. The process itself was difficult and involved sedation and a very sore and unhappy pony for several weeks, but the sarcoids did seem to disappear, except for the one on the eye which had been treated with a milder cream. Four weeks after the final sign of them, the largest one came back and quickly re-grew to bigger than its original size. Several more appeared on the sheath and one in the girth area. I couldn't face another episode of the pony being so sore and consequently so difficult to deal with, so I looked in to alternatives and read every bit of information I could find. Eventually, I chose to use Thuja cream, plus Thuja tablets and Echinacia (sp? sorry) tablets from Natural Horse Supplies, twice a day, every day. First I treated the one in the girth area to try out the Thuja cream. It went within weeks, but the ones on the sheath remained unchanged. Then I moved on to the ones on the sheath. Within about six weeks the newly formed sarcoids had gone and the large one on the sheath had reduced sufficiently for me to be encouraged to continue with the treatment. After six months, the large one had gone completely. I started with the one on the eye once I was convinced that the combination of the cream and the tablets was working. The one on the eye took much longer, but eventually it too began to change. Now I had read all about the possibility of interference stimulating further growth, the dangers of using unproven treatments, etc, but I had also read that sometimes the sarcoid may look as though it is getting worse before it gets better and that the treatment should be continued. I kept going. The one on the eye got a little bigger, and much angrier, and it bled often, but I could see throughout this process that it was pushing out from the surrounding flesh, like a little mushroom on a stalk. This went on for months and I just kept going. After a full year or more of treatment, it fell out on its stalk, healed over and has never returned. It is possible that it was the Echinacia that was having enough impact on the pony's own immune system to enable him to fight off the virus himself, but that still doesn't explain why each area only responded once I used the combination of Thuja cream, Thuja tabs, and Echinacea tabs.
Pony Two: Small nodular sarcoid identified on sheath 4 weeks ago and possibly been there for a while. Observed for a week. No change. Started combination treatment as above just to see if anything improved before going down the route of laser surgery as the pony is insured. Within 48 hours of starting treatment the sarcoid had visibly shrunk. Two weeks later it's almost gone. I'm wary of the temptation to want to believe that the treatment works but I'm also not inclined to think that, as with the pony above, the pony's own immune system just suddenly kicked in entirely of its own accord at the very moment I decided to start treatment.
I discussed both cases with my vet and she said that although there is no scientific basis to support this combined treatment, if it works and I'm happy with it then go with it, and it could be that there is something about the combination and the base formula of the cream and the action of application that stimulates an immune response that is not yet fully understood.
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Post by occult on Sept 8, 2015 12:41:01 GMT
Variation on a theme - I have a pony on trial at the moment, which has 3 small occult sarcoids, one above her eye and two (one almost undetectable) on her inner leg. The pony so far is proving to be everything we want, however I have no previous experience with sarcoids. We don't show, so don't need to worry about that. Obviously if I buy the pony I couldn't get insurance cover for sarcoids, so I would need to make sure I had funds set aside in case they developed. Owner's vet recommended a policy of benign neglect, as the sarcoids may just stay dormant for years if not interfered with. Very interested to hear others' experiences - would you buy a pony knowing it already had a tendency to sarcoids?
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sarahp
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Post by sarahp on Sept 8, 2015 14:22:00 GMT
Well I did - but a teenage broodmare, as detailed above. She was 15yo when I bought her and was pts at 20yo, and in that time the flat eye sarcoid didn't start to show any change until her last summer. I think in your position and if the price is right, allowing for them, I'd go for it, but I wouldn't if the sarcoid could get rubbed by any tack or otherwise interfered with. What does your own vet think about it?
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