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Post by ThisletonStud on Feb 18, 2016 23:04:16 GMT
Has anyone ever used one?
If so what are your thoughts?
Anyone used for laminitis in particular?
Thank you.
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sarahp
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Post by sarahp on Feb 19, 2016 7:37:48 GMT
I'm not a believer in homeopathy, although I am in many other "alternative" therapies. I once heard their dilution rates as equivalent to throwing an aspirin in the Thames at Reading and expecting it to cure every headache in London, and to me there is no possibility of a scientific explanation behind it, as there is for say herbal medicine, osteopathy or acupuncture. I have tried it on occasion without any success years ago, but wouldn't bother to again. I do think many people do not understand the basic theory of homeopathy and muddle it with other therapies - the main principle of it is the very extreme dilution rates of any active ingredients, to the point where there is unlikely to be a single molecule of the active ingredient in the made up remedy.
I think laminitis is too nasty a condition to take risks with in terms of treatment as it is now becoming much better understood by conventional vets.
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Post by 19simeon56 on Feb 20, 2016 23:19:02 GMT
Slightly off subject but I have used homeopathy on my cattle, usually for reproductive problems(mainly cystic ovaries)sometimes for mastitis,I got sick of paying for veterinary treatment that for some reason never worked, so now I get the pills out and yes,they do work.Unlike humans,animals don't know what you are giving them so you get an honest result - if it works don't knock it. There is homeopathic treatment for laminitis (I'm not a vet),is there a reason why you are thinking of going down this route as I presume you don't routinely use homeopathy?
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Post by ThisletonStud on Feb 21, 2016 21:37:42 GMT
Slightly off subject but I have used homeopathy on my cattle, usually for reproductive problems(mainly cystic ovaries)sometimes for mastitis,I got sick of paying for veterinary treatment that for some reason never worked, so now I get the pills out and yes,they do work.Unlike humans,animals don't know what you are giving them so you get an honest result - if it works don't knock it. There is homeopathic treatment for laminitis (I'm not a vet),is there a reason why you are thinking of going down this route as I presume you don't routinely use homeopathy? Thank you. That's interesting! I'm at the end of my tether with conventional vets unfortunately. Two different, separate, friends have both recommended I try a homeopathic vet as they have with laminitis and had great results. I've unfortunately got an unusual lami case, with other factors that the farrier and physio can see yet the vet can not and blames it on a lami attack. Feel like I'm banging my head against a brick wall with them. Their answer is bute or pts
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Post by 19simeon56 on Feb 22, 2016 19:13:31 GMT
In that case you have nothing to lose trying homeopathy.In your shoes I'd go for it and with my farming head on I'd also be prepared to go down the pts route if it doesn't work (I'm not a believer in using bute long term,like all medicine it can have detrimental side effects),good luck with your horse and it would be interesting to hear how you get on.
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Post by Team Fenton on Feb 22, 2016 20:16:14 GMT
Look at a company called freesteps. There is two products for lami with great sucess
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Post by ThisletonStud on Feb 22, 2016 22:22:43 GMT
In that case you have nothing to lose trying homeopathy.In your shoes I'd go for it and with my farming head on I'd also be prepared to go down the pts route if it doesn't work (I'm not a believer in using bute long term,like all medicine it can have detrimental side effects),good luck with your horse and it would be interesting to hear how you get on. It's muscle related problems. Not the lami. But vet will not have it, it's quite funny actually because he could have his eyeball hanging out and it would be a lami attack to the vet lol. I'm glad I've got my head screwed on and not as vulnerable as some can be. Yes I'm going for it and trying the homeopathic route. Thanks Team Fenton. I've looked into Freesteps and it's not for me I'm afraid. We've got the lami under control it's the other issues I'm looking for help for which Freesteps don't have anything for. Thank you though x
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sarahp
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Post by sarahp on Feb 23, 2016 6:01:58 GMT
Can't your physio help with the muscle problems? Although they are often secondary to something else that is hurting and so putting the body out of balance. I personally have huge muscle problems due to my arthritic condition, and I'd back my phsio over a doctor any day, unless it gets to the point where the underlying cause has to be addressed.
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Post by lucynlizzysmum on Feb 23, 2016 6:35:58 GMT
Sometimes the vets look at the book and not the problem :-( As far as homeopathy goes I cannot personally comment as I have not used - but I do know a couple of dairy cattle men who use homeopathy within their herd management and swear by it. Farmers don't pay for something that doesn't work! Sometimes you need to have a bit of blue sky thinking when you have a problem.
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Post by ThisletonStud on Feb 23, 2016 8:50:12 GMT
Can't your physio help with the muscle problems? Although they are often secondary to something else that is hurting and so putting the body out of balance. I personally have huge muscle problems due to my arthritic condition, and I'd back my phsio over a doctor any day, unless it gets to the point where the underlying cause has to be addressed. Yes that's the problem. The muscle problems have come from the lami, having his shoes off and being confined to a stable. So we know the problem has come from this. My physio is coming every two months. But I'd like to see if there's a further under lying issue such as uric acid build up or something systematic. the vets do not entertain this thought and disagree with myself, farrier and physio. And unfortunately said vets are the best of a bad bunch round here. So it looks as though homeopathy is my next route. He is full of life and I'm not ignoring the quality of life etc etc. I know my horses and I know when the time is right. The time isn't right.
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Post by diadem on Feb 23, 2016 9:46:32 GMT
Have you spoken to vet about the use of magnesium? I always have arnica in the cupboard, for human or animal, worth a try, weleda you best place to look. Look at excerpts from Materia Medica, very informative.
in humans this would be a restless leg syndrome, the continual spasm of muscles. A symptom of fibromyalgia and possibly a symptom of magnesium deficiency. I'm a layman so obvs this is pretty simplistic of me but shows a small correlation between the over excited ness of the nervous system, somewhat over firing.
We have a vet at the local practice who is heavily to homeopathy as well as traditional vet science, she also does acupuncture, so they are out there, I hope you find one x
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sarahp
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Post by sarahp on Feb 23, 2016 9:58:45 GMT
Muscle spasm not quite the same thing as restless legs, I have both from time to time. Relieved by movement - any chance of being able to keep your pony in a small yard or the like Thistleton Stud? Fine unless he has acute lami when rotation might be a complication. And I'd feed a suitable balancer too to provide the necessary micronutrients if you aren't already. Any lami ones I might have live in my old sand school which gives support for the feet and minimal grass.
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sarahp
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Post by sarahp on Feb 23, 2016 10:07:53 GMT
Arnica is a very old herbal remedy and comes in various forms - including homeopathic but also creams, gels and the like. I wonder if this is one cause of the general misunderstanding of homeopathy in the general population?
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Post by ThisletonStud on Feb 23, 2016 12:26:44 GMT
That's another problem we face We have an American barn style stables so I can't do what id like to and fence off a place where he can go in or out as he likes. We've a sand paddock, but yet another problem, gypsies have dumped ponies in our field so field ponies currently occupying the paddock the majority of the day... Never simple is it! But as you would guess he is a lot easier when out, and it really does help and eases as he starts to move. We are hoping to move to new properry soon where he could have his own paddock, but again this is taking time. We know it's definitely muscle as he has gone from not bending the pastern joint like normally should and back on to his heels, to now doing this but now not straightening the knee, which tells us it's gone from the ddfm to the superficial. Again why??! We do not know and need to know. Like I say he's been through a lot of changes, shoes off, a better trim to shape the deformed pedal bone and stable confinement when he was so sore. So he could genuinely be sore and stiff. But it's lasting a lot longer than I would expect. He is on a good balancer which should cover everything required, forage plus laminae balancer. I'm sure it's got the essential magnesium but would have to check. Along with fibrebeet, micronised linseed and ad lib soaked hay. So the inside should be working well and should support him internally.....
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Post by ThisletonStud on Feb 23, 2016 12:30:16 GMT
Forgot to add, the laminitis is currently stable, with no further attacks. Farrier is trimming in the correct way to support the bone which has previously been remodelled. And we have succeeded and come along way with the hoof finally growing in the right direction. So apart from a very thin sole the foot 'should not' be causing any pain at present. When out of the stable he wears pads taped on to his foot to ensure no debris breaks through the sole and into the capsule.
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sarahp
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Post by sarahp on Feb 23, 2016 16:14:14 GMT
It is now much easier and quicker to get rid of fly grazed ponies then it used to be since the law has been tightened up.
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Post by catkin on Feb 26, 2016 14:10:19 GMT
I know that the more modern methods of laminitis 'treatment' recommend box rest, but when we were managing them years ago, the recommendation was to keep them on a peat bed and have them move around as much as possible on a soft surface. Since you know the feet are OK at the moment, then I would definitely get the pony moving. Perhaps you could hand walk (time consuming I know) on grass verges etc whilst you wait for the uninvited guest to be evicted. SarahP is quite correct on the fly grazing. I would contact you local police asap if you have not already done so and also the local BHS welfare officer (see their website) and the RSPCA. Whatever any of us might think about the RSPCA they are virtually the only charity that has the means to support prosecution. Even the threat of this will very much speed up the removal of the animals. Usually they are removed by the RSPCA with the assistance of one of the equine charities (WHW, Redwings, BHS, Blue Cross) and taken to a green yard. The bill is then picked up by the owner if prosecuted or the local authority in some cases. Good luck on both counts!
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Post by ThisletonStud on Feb 29, 2016 1:40:55 GMT
We had our first visit today!
He had accupuncture to start with today!
A lot of things to think about for the homeopathic Vet and I with it being such a complex case, but I must admit I am very impressed so far and am keen to continue.
Fingers crossed please my fellow HG'ers.
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sarahp
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Post by sarahp on Feb 29, 2016 7:17:21 GMT
In my experience the current thinking is to keep them on box rest and meds while the attack is active on a soft bed, most usually these days deep shavings, but not to walk them at that stage because it's liable to cause/increase rotation. Lying down is encouraged too to take weight off the feet. But when the attack is no longer active so the pony is in recovery/prevention mode it's a different matter although a soft surface is still indicated for the pony's comfort if nothing else as by then they can have dropped soles. On the other hand, if they['re very sore and in a sand school or small yard they won't want to move much anyway. Mind you, and old fashioned treatment was to stand in a stream or the like to cool the feet, then that went out of fashion but I think is back in favour again so you can't always tell. It's a question of what is right for your individual pony within the facilities available at the end of the day. Mine all seem happy to settle in a box, not that I get any that bad very often, but some do come in to be dieted from time to time to avoid the problem and may have to be housed.
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Post by ThisletonStud on Mar 3, 2016 23:09:54 GMT
Well, it's either a huge coincidence or this homeopathy malarkey is working so far
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Post by 19simeon56 on Mar 3, 2016 23:30:49 GMT
Going back to my cattle,a few years ago an obnoxious individual fired his air rifle at my poor cow and hit both back quarters(no prizes for guessing what I'd have done to him if I'd caught him),for two days the poor animal was so depressed(with good reason),I had a word with my natural therapy man and he gave me a pill to give her(can't remember what it was),next day she still had a badly swollen udder but mentally she was back to normal,coincidence -I don't think so.
I'm glad your horse is responding to that 'homeopathy malarkey',hopefully he'll be back to normal very shortly.
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Post by ThisletonStud on Mar 3, 2016 23:57:25 GMT
Going back to my cattle,a few years ago an obnoxious individual fired his air rifle at my poor cow and hit both back quarters(no prizes for guessing what I'd have done to him if I'd caught him),for two days the poor animal was so depressed(with good reason),I had a word with my natural therapy man and he gave me a pill to give her(can't remember what it was),next day she still had a badly swollen udder but mentally she was back to normal,coincidence -I don't think so. I'm glad your horse is responding to that 'homeopathy malarkey',hopefully he'll be back to normal very shortly. I must admit I am quite the pessimist, but honestly I am so intrigued, interested and keen to learn more about homeopathy. It's so very interesting! He's only had physio, acupuncture and arnica since Sunday. He is now on NO medical pain relief. I honestly can't believe it. I'm so hoping this is the path he will continue on.
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sarahp
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Post by sarahp on Mar 4, 2016 6:55:46 GMT
If you try three new things at once - and nothing against that - how do you know which of them is making the difference? Physio on its own will help muscle problems, as will acupuncture (my old dog has it every six weeks from our fully trained for it vet). I take it then that the arnica is given in homeopathic form, you haven't specified? No proper research trials have ever given any credence to homeopathic treatment.
I'm very glad you have turned the corner with your pony, whichever of your treatments made the difference.
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Post by lucynlizzysmum on Mar 4, 2016 7:15:07 GMT
I used to be cynical about alternative such as homeopathy etc until just after FMD I was incredibly stressed, down to 8 stone and still losing weighand and generally couldn't do cope. I had to go collect some fliers from an open day which had been set up showcasing how and what was available. To cut a long story short, some of the availability was for alternative meds including reiki. The Reiki Master insisted I sit down even though I hadn't asked for it. She laid her hands on the back of my neck and my head and I felt heat - I walked away thinking what good did that do, however I began to feel better later that day and to be truthful never looked back. There is no science saying that will happen, but it worked for me. Glad to hear things are improving Thisleton Stud.
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Post by ThisletonStud on Mar 4, 2016 14:03:33 GMT
If you try three new things at once - and nothing against that - how do you know which of them is making the difference? Physio on its own will help muscle problems, as will acupuncture (my old dog has it every six weeks from our fully trained for it vet). I take it then that the arnica is given in homeopathic form, you haven't specified? No proper research trials have ever given any credence to homeopathic treatment. I'm very glad you have turned the corner with your pony, whichever of your treatments made the difference. I've no idea which of these has worked but to be honest I really don't care, without sounding rude of course. We are further in one week than we have been in 3 months! The physio and homeopathic vets are working together and have put a plan in place to continue!
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Post by 19simeon56 on Mar 5, 2016 14:10:27 GMT
Like you I wouldn't care either,your pony must be feeling a lot happier in himself which will also help with his rehabilitation.
The problem these days is that the drug companies have too much of a hold,after all it's in their interest to push the drugs they manufacture,what a lot of people don't realise (or have forgotten) is that a lot of drugs are based on nature,ie Digitalis for the heart.Drs and vets are taught to use drugs from the big companies and unless they have an open mind alternative methods are pooh poohed,one of my Dr friends calls it 'mickey mouse treatment'.
I see my Osteopath on a regular basis,he also uses a range of natural treatments so he treats me with whatever is suitable for my symptoms - be it manipulation, homeopathy,accupuncture etc or a mix of all or some of his skills.So long as I walk out of his room feeling a lot better than when I entered it I don't care what he uses!
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sarahp
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Post by sarahp on Mar 5, 2016 14:36:40 GMT
ThistletonStud - you did in an earlier post ascribe it to the homeopathy, which is why I posted as I did.
I'm a great believer in many natural remedies, including herbal based ones and physical therapies, I just don't believe in homeopathy as unlike other therapies mentioned I don't see that there can be any logical basis to it.
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Post by ThisletonStud on Mar 5, 2016 17:04:22 GMT
ThistletonStud - you did in an earlier post ascribe it to the homeopathy, which is why I posted as I did. I'm a great believer in many natural remedies, including herbal based ones and physical therapies, I just don't believe in homeopathy as unlike other therapies mentioned I don't see that there can be any logical basis to it. I'm still learning Sarahp with the homeopathic stuff. He has had physio every two months. I would like to say it was the homeopathy but he's only had arnica. The acupuncture he has every physio session really as its laser therapy, so to me yes the homeopathy is working? But how can we prove it? It's the only thing, approach that I've done differently. And was talking about the reliance on drugs with homeopathic vet. A lot of vet practices are on good commission with drug companies, which is a real big bare for me. I'm rambling as rushing so not quite sure what I've just posted makes as much sense as I mean it too!!
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sarahp
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Post by sarahp on Mar 5, 2016 18:42:49 GMT
I'm not sure this conversation is very enlightening to either of us is it? I think I'm not really following what you're saying, sorry if so - I took it that he'd only had physio, acupuncture (never heard of it done with lasers, dog has good old fashioned needles), and arnica but I don't know in what form, since Sunday, which is three things at once.
I prefer minimal drugs too, and relying on a healthy immune system wherever possible, and I'm very keen on herbal stuff and physical therapies, just not homeopathy which seems to have no sense behind it unlike the other stuff.
As I said before, I'm very glad your pony is improving.
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Post by ThisletonStud on Mar 7, 2016 18:58:53 GMT
Although I've taken offence to your post thanks for your thanks about pony improving.
Arnica was given via tablet form. Sorry for missing this out.
I'm only writing on here as a way of gaining and sharing my experience in the hope that I can get help or potentially offer this to someone else who finds themselves in the same situation. I will refrain from doing so in future. Thanks. We can close this thread now.
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