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Post by PrincessP on Sept 25, 2017 8:34:11 GMT
Can I ask what is it they are using to sedate them? Sedalin or something stronger? It is a worrying topic!
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Post by wink wink on Sept 26, 2017 6:43:52 GMT
RE NPS so when will the results of the 2 positive tests be put on the website? or are they already up in some obscure place? BSPS have their results up
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Post by Eor 15 on Sept 26, 2017 6:58:47 GMT
NPS, as in law, has an appeals process, which can be found in the rule book. It is no secret that there were 2 positive tests at the Summer Championships. No comment can be made until due process has been followed, then and only then will NPS issue a statement.Nothing is being hidden or swept under the carpet. NPS will robustly continue to root out the cheats no matter who they are.
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Post by 2 more at nps on Sept 26, 2017 7:20:01 GMT
That is excellent news thanks for clearing that up
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Post by haggis on Sept 26, 2017 8:08:07 GMT
really what i know is that people want transparency, am glad someone has cleared the NPS position up , i feel if there was a lot more transparency it could and i say could go towards calming ( excuse the pun) the waters and then exhibitors will feel something is being done be it , Doping , over height , or people bending the rules etc something has to be done or seen to be done or i fear our sport is domed
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Post by DopeOnaRope on Sept 26, 2017 8:11:03 GMT
Can I ask what is it they are using to sedate them? Sedalin or something stronger? It is a worrying topic! A whole range of things, including human antihistamines of the drowsy kind, human anti-anxiety/hyperactivity/depression meds like Ritalin and all the Diapezam and Opiate type things, herbal things like Valerian, and the worst are things that are fed daily as opposed to one-offs, so things like Potassium Bromide, which rots the horse's guts. This is why it is so expensive to undertake a broad spectrum test, and why some things still go undetected. I'm not entirely sure of the science, but I believe that many of the substances have to be explicitly tested for otherwise they don't show up, so for example, if you do a general blood screen for 'abnormal' substances things like Bute and ACP show up, but there are many where the test has to specifically say, "Is there substance x in the blood, and how much?" Does that make sense? So the canny and the clever are always one step ahead of what the tests routinely look for. That's how my vet explained it to me. Gill Wales, I didn't mind you asking the question at all. I totally agree. And yes, although social media was already a thing at the time, it wasn't so prevalent as it is now. We've not shown in these classes ever since the incident and haven't been members of the societies concerned either. But Karma is a wonderful thing and I believe the producer in question is no longer in practice. I think the stream of clients dried up as word spread and as other 'victims' appeared. Reputation is everything in this game.
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Post by haggis on Sept 26, 2017 8:35:14 GMT
Dopeonarope well said , also as been said before surely the society's could just once test fro Bromide am sure the membership wouldn't mind their membership being spent this way for 1 test - all it needs is 1 to be caught and they could think twice
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Post by What if on Sept 26, 2017 14:57:23 GMT
Can you imagine how this would look if it went public?
It would only take an ambitious sports journalist and the freedom of information act and you can only imagine how it would end!
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Post by tct2912 on Sept 29, 2017 14:47:36 GMT
Can you imagine how this would look if it went public? It would only take an ambitious sports journalist and the freedom of information act and you can only imagine how it would end! You never know What if! Maybe its happening now?? Its such a huge topic maybe there is someone out there at this very moment gathering and videoing all the evidence required to put this sport in the spotlight for all the wrong reasons !! We will watch this space !
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Post by out in the open on Oct 2, 2017 16:13:20 GMT
NPS published it's cope testing results from NPS champs
2 out of 3 fail
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Post by out in the open on Oct 2, 2017 16:16:43 GMT
*dope
d**n autocorrect
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Post by maxandpaddy on Oct 2, 2017 17:16:04 GMT
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Post by firtree on Oct 2, 2017 18:10:25 GMT
Good hope all the others think before they drug the ponies. I've seen some L/R ponies with their noses touching their knees shame on you.
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Post by Uncomfortable on Oct 2, 2017 18:13:08 GMT
At last everyone knows! Cheats dope horses to win prizes, should be the headline! Guilty, charged and punished ....... hope shame now kicks in! These and many more are a shocking statistic of showing!
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Post by Philippa on Oct 2, 2017 18:19:27 GMT
Ok so I want to ask a question just out of interest and not to cause any trouble.
One of the failed ponies has been stripped of it’s Hoys qualification from NPS champs however it also qualified the following week at another show. Can said pony still compete at Hoys??
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Post by complicated on Oct 2, 2017 18:37:17 GMT
It's a difficult one
It's been stripped of it's placing at NPS and in the process lost it's qualification and no mps membership
As long as they had another membership then I'd of assumed that they would of still been ok as last year hoys didn't care about the ban the owners of golden tasset had
It's just the complicated matter of that 2nd place pony who would of thought they have qualified have not now
I imagine the wheels where in motion for whatever has happened to the ticket long before this press release
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Post by maxandpaddy on Oct 2, 2017 19:01:54 GMT
Ok so I want to ask a question just out of interest and not to cause any trouble. One of the failed ponies has been stripped of it’s Hoys qualification from NPS champs however it also qualified the following week at another show. Can said pony still compete at Hoys?? Surely not .. for the sake of showing AND in this case HOYs if a horse/pony fails a dope test it should forfeit the right to qualify under any another society for the length of its ban ! Otherwise it's a complete waste of time testing them, all society's need to have a joint rule for situations like this or GSM does No decent person would go now anyway... surely?
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Post by well they didn't on Oct 2, 2017 19:04:40 GMT
last year people banned by bsps for failed drug test at rihs continued to show under diff society and went on and where who champ at hoys with different pony
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Post by Calm down on Oct 2, 2017 19:51:11 GMT
As this is now published perhaps people could just calm down and read the facts. The horse that tested positive at NPS for a sedative did get stripped of its Cuddy qualification at Bucks County a few weeks later. The LR pony which had been given an antihistimane not a sedative or performance enhancing drug did get stripped of its HOYS qualification and 2nd pony at NPS I believe has been given the qualification. Perhaps before everyone starts pointing fingers and accusing people of wrong doing sometimes things are genuine mistakes particularly if it is not a sedative or perfomrance enhaning drug.
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Post by Philippa on Oct 2, 2017 20:05:45 GMT
As this is now published perhaps people could just calm down and read the facts. The horse that tested positive at NPS for a sedative did get stripped of its Cuddy qualification at Bucks County a few weeks later. The LR pony which had been given an antihistimane not a sedative or performance enhancing drug did get stripped of its HOYS qualification and 2nd pony at NPS I believe has been given the qualification. Perhaps before everyone starts pointing fingers and accusing people of wrong doing sometimes things are genuine mistakes particularly if it is not a sedative or perfomrance enhaning drug. I hear what you are saying but surely a failed test is a failed test?? If it wasn’t a drug that affects it then why test for it and strip qualification?? Like I said before I’m only asking for my own curiosity. I’m struggling to comprehend the whole dope testing rules. It’s been a long day.
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Post by gillwales on Oct 2, 2017 20:08:07 GMT
It is shocking that 2 animals were tested positive, the one that had sedative is appalling, the one that had antihistamine is bad but not so bad as the one with sedative. Lets remember that one pony was proved to be clear. It does not mean that any horse or pony who wins in the ring is doped. I would imagine that those people who are involved have damaged themselves irrevocably, who is going to buy a horse or pony from them or send one to be produced?
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Post by read a label on Oct 2, 2017 20:10:22 GMT
some drugs are banned because of the side effects rather than what the main use of what the drug is for
no 1 side effect antihistamines is drowsiness (sameas a sedative), If it had no effect it would not be on the prohibited substances list
I do feel however that having cetirizine present is more of stupid misjudgment than the owners trying to cheat the system. How many people will give a horse an antihistamine and not think anything about the active ingredient in it and whether its on the banned substance list.
The inhand horse on the other hand...owner should have an across the board ban
More of the issue with HOYS LR tickets is the ripple effect it will have on the other tickets
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Post by honeypot on Oct 2, 2017 23:26:58 GMT
I think the cetirizine is more than likely lack of knowledge, some vets doubt whether it works any way. It does have a sedative effect but not that much. I can not for the life of me understand why you would to give something ACP, when everyone knows what it is and how it works. equimed.com/drugs-and-medications/reference/acepromazine The hydroxyethyl promazine sulphoxide is a metabolite of the ACP. I afraid for that they should be banned from every competition.
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Post by Philippa on Oct 3, 2017 4:59:55 GMT
some drugs are banned because of the side effects rather than what the main use of what the drug is for no 1 side effect antihistamines is drowsiness (sameas a sedative), If it had no effect it would not be on the prohibited substances list I do feel however that having cetirizine present is more of stupid misjudgment than the owners trying to cheat the system. How many people will give a horse an antihistamine and not think anything about the active ingredient in it and whether its on the banned substance list. The inhand horse on the other hand...owner should have an across the board ban More of the issue with HOYS LR tickets is the ripple effect it will have on the other tickets I believe when competing at this level everyone should be conscious of what you put into your pony and if you are not aware of the contents then clarify it with your vet!! I’ve had a pony on bute earlier on this year and have been extremely careful to keep it away from our competing pony and used seperate feed bucket etc so as to avoid cross contamination. Or is this just me being too cautious??
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Post by read a label on Oct 3, 2017 5:30:24 GMT
Bute is in a different league to an antihistamine
A vet may have suggested giving a pony antihistamine there are two type one that causes drowsiness and one that does not, One you shouldn't take and drive and one you should how many people take an antihistamine and still drive without looking at the label? It's a very easy mistake to make
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Post by sageandonionagain on Oct 3, 2017 7:51:33 GMT
A banned substance is just that. It is not up to mere mortals to decide whether one drug is more worthy of a ban than another, neither is it up to us to decide whether a test was deliberate or by accident. The experts compile the list, the rest comply. End of. This highlight how careful everyone must be with management particularly in the weeks leading up to a show.
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interesting but depressing
Guest
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Post by interesting but depressing on Oct 3, 2017 12:20:58 GMT
the 3 tested at nps is the tip of the iceberg i'm afraid...
and obviously there is no punishment apart from the nps ban, so 'caught-out' people will still be competing at hoys as has happened before, a ban means nothing. I wonder if there will be any 'showing' press coverage with it being a high profile producer? excuses will be made of course.
using antihistamine is a way to sedate the pony, an experienced person would know what they are doing.
nothing will change, but well done NPS for trying.
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Post by flee on Oct 3, 2017 12:37:15 GMT
I find it very interesting , given how suspicious everyone seems , that people appear much more sympathetic towards the pony testing positive for antihistamine on the presumption that it was prescribed by a vet and given for a pre-existing condition .This may well be so , I don't know the facts , but if it is widely known to cause drowsiness then is there not the possibility that it was , infact , administered for this reason alone ? And with a handy excuse should you get caught out ! Is all doping bad or are some situations or substances more tolerable than others ?
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Post by gillwales on Oct 3, 2017 13:08:51 GMT
I find it very interesting , given how suspicious everyone seems , that people appear much more sympathetic towards the pony testing positive for antihistamine on the presumption that it was prescribed by a vet and given for a pre-existing condition .This may well be so , I don't know the facts , but if it is widely known to cause drowsiness then is there not the possibility that it was , infact , administered for this reason alone ? And with a handy excuse should you get caught out ! Is all doping bad or are some situations or substances more tolerable than others ? I suppose it is the question of giving it the benefit of the doubt. It would have been interesting to know where these people got these substances. Were they obtained legally? If not then it should be reported to the Police and a lifetime ban imposed on the person responsible. If a Vet prescribed a medicine, then he or she should have been aware of any consequences, I believe that they are meant to be entered into the pony's passports? ( I might be wrong on that so feel free to correct me if I am ) If I am wrong then that is what IMO should be happening. If a pony is then tested positive for a substance not recorded in a passport then questions should be raised. If cross contamination is claimed, I think that happened with last years winner at RHIS, then a passport with documentation from another pony where it has been prescribed should be produced, if not then in my eyes that person was guilty of doping and should receive a lifetime ban, and the pony from showing. People will only stop if the consequences are severe enough. Given the cost of testing it is unrealistic that all shows should test, however I do believe that the Champions at RHIS and HOYS should be, they get enough money from the ticket holders to afford testing and I think it is having these show as goals that would promote people to dope their animals. On a separate note if you do use Bute, please do not work your animal as it works by speeding up the heart rate, so if you do work your horse/ pony, you could end up giving it a heart attack and killing it.
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Post by kateanne0 on Oct 3, 2017 13:58:18 GMT
some drugs are banned because of the side effects rather than what the main use of what the drug is for no 1 side effect antihistamines is drowsiness (sameas a sedative), If it had no effect it would not be on the prohibited substances list I do feel however that having cetirizine present is more of stupid misjudgment than the owners trying to cheat the system. How many people will give a horse an antihistamine and not think anything about the active ingredient in it and whether its on the banned substance list. The inhand horse on the other hand...owner should have an across the board ban More of the issue with HOYS LR tickets is the ripple effect it will have on the other tickets I believe when competing at this level everyone should be conscious of what you put into your pony and if you are not aware of the contents then clarify it with your vet!! I’ve had a pony on bute earlier on this year and have been extremely careful to keep it away from our competing pony and used seperate feed bucket etc so as to avoid cross contamination. Or is this just me being too cautious?? No, Philippa, you were doing exactly what is recommended when another pony could be cross infected
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