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Post by Philippa on Oct 11, 2017 11:50:22 GMT
Lol no need for tin hat nobody knows who you are 🙀🙀
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Post by joules on Oct 11, 2017 12:33:08 GMT
if what breed type says is true then what a sad way showing is going,it is not doing any of the breeds any favours either,the pony won two classes at HOYS this is quite an achievement
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Post by honeypot on Oct 11, 2017 13:48:22 GMT
I think we have always known that certain shows favour certain types of animals, that's why NPS is so important, and the breed shows. I think Highland breeders, most of them are very aware of what the pony was bred for, and for them perhaps the RH is for more important than a bit of a circus down south. Do not open if you like seeing dead animals, but its their job. www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1809240632437774&set=gm.10156638045094368&type=3&theater
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Post by gillwales on Oct 11, 2017 14:04:01 GMT
The point of this thread; and please correct me if I am wrong OP, was to give all of you who had decided that winners were fixed was to put your money where your mouth is, not to jump on it as an after thought once the class had been run. Nobody availed themselves of this opportunity, so unless a horse or pony was tipped because they were outstanding or on form then saying you knew in advance but after the class really does not count.
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Post by Guestless on Oct 12, 2017 8:23:16 GMT
I'm deleting "breed type's" post. This area is not for a personal attack on an individual pony. If you want to discuss breed types then you're welcome to do so, but please keep it general.
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Post by Bellalovescate on Oct 13, 2017 10:50:57 GMT
Hello all, I have been told about this delightful thread by some friends and have come in to defend catriona of Meggernie. I own and bred her and have loved her from the moment she was born, on a hill in the highlands of Scotland at a stud that has been successfully breeding highland ponies for over half a century. We have won the highland and the breed show many times amongst others and I think I am qualified to know what a good highland pony is. Jayne does not know the HOYS judges, Scott does not know the HOYS judges and I know literally nobody down south, and the pony has never been under these judges before, so how the hell was it a fix?! She has done brilliantly all season, has it all been a fix, has she won anything on her own merit?! She went into both classes and performed beautifully. I was told by other people that a different pony was definitely winning the class! People talk such sh1t! The post that has been deleted was so unkind, why behave like that?! Cate is most definitely a pony, she easily measured in this year, with her shoes on and with absolutely no 'preparation'. If she does 'drive into the ground' how was she ridden so easily by a tiny 14 yr old girl in the young riders who managed a canter serpentine and a walk to canter in her supreme show?! Could she carry a stag or panniers? I'm sure she could, she is totally unflappable, and most of her siblings do. If she's not your cup of tea, fine, but please don't attempt to wrongfully discredit her just because you don't like her. She can't be that crap a highland as she has done exceptionally well both in Scotland and England. Please remember most people's horses and ponies are their pride and joy, and reading this kind of crap is hurtful, you would hate it if it was about your pony. Don't believe what I'm saying, come and meet and ride her and you will see why she's done so well, she's a fab pony.
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Post by Catkin as guest on Oct 13, 2017 11:13:10 GMT
How very sad that Bellalovescate has felt the need to respond to these posts. Whether or not the pony is your type or in your opinion a good representative of the breed (and I am not saying she isn't) is pretty much entirely irrelevant if four judges at HOYS saw fit to pronounce her so. Yes, I do remind you that there were four judges involved, not one! And actually, so often there are people on here moaning about animals not going well. From what I have heard, this pony went beautifully - and did it twice, so hardly a fluke. I am sure, like any of us lucky enough to qualify, connections worked very hard to produce those performances and as is evident here, the pony is much-loved. I am really shocked and sad that people feel qualified to reduce these wonderful achievements in such a way. When YOU are judging then YOU will be able to reward the animals YOU like. I know all very well how frustrating it can be to come lower than you think you might have - but this is a subjective sport. Unless rules are broken, please let's all try to behave with some sportsmanship.
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Post by I Was There on Oct 13, 2017 11:29:08 GMT
I was there and thought this pony was beautiful and went so well. It's refreshing to see an "unknown" do so well, credit where credit is due. Huge congratulations and enjoy your win 😊
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Post by gillwales on Oct 13, 2017 12:18:33 GMT
So very sorry Bellalovescate that there has been a post aimed at your pony. There seems to be a lot of keyboard warriors out there that like nothing better than to moan and snipe. HG can be very good, it has enabled me to get in touch with some of my babies and there is a wealth of experience people on here that are happy to help others with problems; unfortunally there are a few that use it as a platform to wreck the showing world. Inevitably they are those that forget the amount of hard work put into horses and ponies to achieve results and look for short cuts, are merely concerned with a bit of ribbon and it's colour rather than concentrating on if their horse or pony went well. I would pity them if I was you as jealousy will eat them up. Congratulations on your success and continue to enjoy your pony x
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Post by jimjim on Oct 15, 2017 15:23:53 GMT
Hi everyone, I am Loraine Homer, the mother mother of Alice Homer who rode her in the juniors on Sunday. What a treat that was for Alice. This beautifully produced pony is so well balanced Alice was able to give a show in the supreme to rival all. I was immensely proud to watch. I am extremely dismayed that showing has come to this sort of level. I am the third generation of a showing family that has had a fabulous life through showing and did and always will support it and the great job it does for making horses, people and riders. So zip it up you guys. Bitterness is so unattractive. You only let yourselves down scrambling around there in the lowest depths. Thank you Bella, Jayne and Scott for the opportunity you gave Alice.
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Post by honeypot on Oct 15, 2017 16:36:29 GMT
I think the mainly the posts have not been aimed at one pony, showing is always based on opinion by that judge of that animal,on the day. In some respects its harder when people outside the ring have different opinions, rightly or wrongly of how from the person inside the ring, but its their opinion that counts, and if you go showing that is what you have to accept. I think the main feature of this thread has been concerns about what outside influences which may affect an opinion inside the ring, it just so happens that there has been a high profile show, and there are more opinions expressed as more people were there to see the judging. We watch programmes like Bake Off, X-Factor and Strictly and every contestant will have different opinions expressed about their ability, personality and looks, when they read or see them expressed on TV, some of them must get a bit of a shock, but when they win the majority of people will be happy for them, but there will always be someone that says X was better and should have of won. I think like actors, you either do not read reviews or opinions, only read the good ones or just develop a very tough skin. For the people that did well to be at HOYS, you got to the final, something that most of us will never achieve, well done and from what I have seen they were all lovely ponies.
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Post by fatcob on Oct 15, 2017 16:52:31 GMT
The minute a debate becomes personal it is lost. This is a subjective sport - if everyone liked the same thing then we would not do it as it would be very boring.
I can't imagine the thrill of breeding a HOYS winner and neither can most of us - so do not take it away from those that have.
Yes there are days when it is all too easy to see a result that can only be explained by connections but not here.
In short if we are passionate about our sport we should stick to healthy debate not personalised ones.
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Post by waspblue on Oct 26, 2017 23:24:51 GMT
For what its worth i think HOYS should be doing something , i ask them to do some dope testing, i ask them to look at the connections some exhibitors have with the HOYS judges, and before you shout i know lots of us know each other , but look at who is judging were, and at what very high profile shows, and were they are placed - please i ask this because we all love our showing , but this has been the worst season for exhibitors being rude to judges , stewards, and the societies just say naughty dont do it again, and the obviously blatant doping, ( my niece who comes to the shows with me is a 4th year vet student) If HOYS take the lead others will follow am sure but lets hope for a bright new 2018 season Hear, Hear!! Very well said. We can only hope.
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Post by waspblue on Oct 26, 2017 23:34:28 GMT
Me too!! Only I did put my bet on and told a few on here privately - interestingly I came away with over £300 in winnings over three definite wins and two each way bets on ponies who would each place!!! You see I did put my money where my mouth is, very sad but true!! d**n it I could have done with winning Forester, I put my bet on many months before HOYS and it was not based on the quality of the animal nor how well or otherwise it went. My bet was purely won on - very sadly - other basis, that I do not wish to go into on a public forum. However, let me know next year and if I feel as certain again I will tip you off. By the way, I am looking forward to having a fab time, at an altogether better equestrian event next month spending my winnings , Your Horse Live here I come woohoooo, can't wait!!! One last thought though, how on earth can something that plaits horrendously in front, is light of bone and very over topped, get 48 as a conformation mark? As far as I am aware these are dreadful faults in any breed and would never warrant a 48 score.
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Post by flee on Oct 27, 2017 8:30:09 GMT
Well if the presence of the ' you scratch my back and I'll scratch yours ' culture gets your hackles up then this may cheer you up a bit . Some years ago there were rumours flying around our neck of the woods that two local judges/producers had done a deal to award each other the tickets for prominent shows over the course of a season . One of them would possibly have qualified anyway as the horse was pretty decent but , sure enough , the other somewhat sub-standard ( and that's being kind ) pony duly qualified for Olympia . Of course none of it could be proven , but some weeks after the big event an acquaintance of mine had a chance meeting with the best friend of the one who had gone to Olympia . During the course of the conversation the friend ( who was also big into showing ) cheerfully admitted that this person had told her that she had got her ticket by doing someone a favour . 'Doesn't it infuriate you ?' asked my acquaintance . ' No ' came the reply ' I think she got what she deserved '. ' Really ? ' asked my friend , aghast ' How on earth can you justify cheating ?' ' Because she was bottom of the class ' laughed her friend ' There were ponies there who behaved appallingly but who still got better marks than her . Her conformation marks were abysmal . Not only has it done her reputation and that of her stallion no favours , but it also cost her £2000 and a whole lot of hassle for the privilige of going to Olympia and doing it .' True story . Karma
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Post by hazeysunshine on Oct 27, 2017 10:57:30 GMT
Hello all, I have been told about this delightful thread by some friends and have come in to defend catriona of Meggernie. I own and bred her and have loved her from the moment she was born, on a hill in the highlands of Scotland at a stud that has been successfully breeding highland ponies for over half a century. We have won the highland and the breed show many times amongst others and I think I am qualified to know what a good highland pony is. Jayne does not know the HOYS judges, Scott does not know the HOYS judges and I know literally nobody down south, and the pony has never been under these judges before, so how the hell was it a fix?! She has done brilliantly all season, has it all been a fix, has she won anything on her own merit?! She went into both classes and performed beautifully. I was told by other people that a different pony was definitely winning the class! People talk such sh1t! The post that has been deleted was so unkind, why behave like that?! Cate is most definitely a pony, she easily measured in this year, with her shoes on and with absolutely no 'preparation'. If she does 'drive into the ground' how was she ridden so easily by a tiny 14 yr old girl in the young riders who managed a canter serpentine and a walk to canter in her supreme show?! Could she carry a stag or panniers? I'm sure she could, she is totally unflappable, and most of her siblings do. If she's not your cup of tea, fine, but please don't attempt to wrongfully discredit her just because you don't like her. She can't be that crap a highland as she has done exceptionally well both in Scotland and England. Please remember most people's horses and ponies are their pride and joy, and reading this kind of crap is hurtful, you would hate it if it was about your pony. Don't believe what I'm saying, come and meet and ride her and you will see why she's done so well, she's a fab pony. Lovely looking highland. Well done to you. You should be very proud.
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Post by Mrs Santa on Nov 2, 2017 10:30:37 GMT
Well if the presence of the ' you scratch my back and I'll scratch yours ' culture gets your hackles up then this may cheer you up a bit . Some years ago there were rumours flying around our neck of the woods that two local judges/producers had done a deal to award each other the tickets for prominent shows over the course of a season . One of them would possibly have qualified anyway as the horse was pretty decent but , sure enough , the other somewhat sub-standard ( and that's being kind ) pony duly qualified for Olympia . Of course none of it could be proven , but some weeks after the big event an acquaintance of mine had a chance meeting with the best friend of the one who had gone to Olympia . During the course of the conversation the friend ( who was also big into showing ) cheerfully admitted that this person had told her that she had got her ticket by doing someone a favour . 'Doesn't it infuriate you ?' asked my acquaintance . ' No ' came the reply ' I think she got what she deserved '. ' Really ? ' asked my friend , aghast ' How on earth can you justify cheating ?' ' Because she was bottom of the class ' laughed her friend ' There were ponies there who behaved appallingly but who still got better marks than her . Her conformation marks were abysmal . Not only has it done her reputation and that of her stallion no favours , but it also cost her £2000 and a whole lot of hassle for the privilige of going to Olympia and doing it .' True story . Karma Oh Flee, I know exactly who this is and remember it well, as do many other people too. And I am nowhere near your neck of the woods. It caused quite a bit of a scandal when the pony qualified and so a lot of people specifically looked for how the pony did at Olympia, when ordinarily they would only have been interested in the ponies that were placed. I mean, someone has to come bottom and normally you accept that all the ponies are lovely and it's just luck on the day and no-one even looks at the results at the lower end, but not this time... Everyone noted it. Not only did it not do that person any good, it cast a darker shadow over the other parties too; they had always had a reputation for this sort of thing and this event confirmed it beyond doubt. Reputation is everything in showing and in horses, and in this case the reputation of all parties was utterly ruined. They brazen it out of course because they have to, but inside they know that all those sycophants who smile at them are doing so in the full knowledge that they are untrustworthy cheats. Can you imagine having to do that? Having to go everywhere conscious of the fact that absolutely everyone knows you are a cheat, corrupt, and untrustworthy, and having to get on with things anyway? That is a high price to pay for a trot round the ring at Olympia.
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Post by flee on Nov 3, 2017 14:33:55 GMT
You are absolutely right Mrs Santa . The majority of us , both spectators and judges , are reasonably intelligent folk , so I don't know who these desperate people think they're fooling . If the pony isn't good enough to qualify by honest means then why on earth would they presume that it would somehow suddenly become good enough to compete on a par with the genuine qualifiers when it gets to the final showdown ? Unless you are so well connected that you can influence the judges at both qualifying and final levels ( highly unlikely - that's a lot of officials to corrupt !) then what on earth is the point of spending so much time , effort and money on taking a sub standard pony to a major show where it will be standing alongside the best of the best for us all to compare it against ? And if you did manage to bribe the judges at the final would the offending rider really presume that the general public are so gullible that they would blindly then use their stallion , buy their bloodstock , send them a pony to produce or buy the ' qualified ' pony itself for some ridiculously inflated price ? If someone is prepared to pay silly money for an inferior animal because it supposedly once 'qualified ' for something then more fool them . Cheating happens in virtually all walks of life but the cheaters are only fooling themselves . There was an article in the paper recently about amateur runners cheating in races by various means ie. nipping through barriers to take short cuts , getting a faster runner to run for them with their bib number and then claiming the time as their own , some even hopping on public transport for a mile or two . One suspected cheat , when confronted with the fact that despite a slow first half he had , having somehow 'missed' a number of checkpoints , apparently run the second half of the London marathon faster than Mo Farah , denied any wrong doing and came up with the hilarious excuse " Well I've been training quite hard for it ." Who do they think they're fooling and , more to the point , why on earth would you even bother ? Do they genuinely think that the rest of us believe that they're that good , despite the evidence in front of our own eyes ? Do they think people consequently respect them more , think they're better people than before or envy their supposed ' success ' . Cheating does occassionally happen in showing , I know that for a fact , and I guess that there will always be those unscrupulous individuals who will try to bend the rules for whatever reason , but I also think that it actually happens an awful lot less than people may suppose . Personally I've never let the rumours bother me because I like to think of it this way - if they think they're being clever by cheating their way to a major show , well then let them get on with it . They can spend endless hours rugging , grooming , clipping and prepping , spend their money on entry fees , stabling , travelling and accommodation and after all that time and expense they can stand at the bottom of a line up of beautiful ponies as proof of what deluded idiots they really are . What has that done for their reputations ? As Mrs Santa says , some of those genuinely qualified ponies are going to be down the line too , that's just the way it is , but those ponies have earned their right to be there , people know it and the owners and riders generally accept it in good grace . But if the cheats are there then , showing being the small world that it is , it's generally no secret . So why rant , rave and stress about it ? If they're that desperate and dellusional then let them get on with it . Because it's not big and it's not clever and it's not fooling anyone . And there's nothing like making a fool of yourself in public eh ?
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Post by mcnaughty on Nov 10, 2017 16:15:06 GMT
It seems Grandstand Medua have disqualified the Small Hunter winner from the Supreme as riding & judging at the same show is not allowed! Really? How on earth did they even manage to enter? Did they get as far as ringside?
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Post by Incorrect on Nov 10, 2017 21:09:24 GMT
It seems Grandstand Medua have disqualified the Small Hunter winner from the Supreme as riding & judging at the same show is not allowed! Really? How on earth did they even manage to enter? Did they get as far as ringside? Apart from the fact that this recent post has dug up old news for no particular reason, the Small Hunter winner could not contest the HOYS Supreme Horse Championship as his rider had judged earlier on the same day. That is a HOYS rule for judges. There was NO 'disqualification'.
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Post by mcnaughty on Dec 15, 2017 11:13:16 GMT
Really? How on earth did they even manage to enter? Did they get as far as ringside? Apart from the fact that this recent post has dug up old news for no particular reason, the Small Hunter winner could not contest the HOYS Supreme Horse Championship as his rider had judged earlier on the same day. That is a HOYS rule for judges. There was NO 'disqualification'. This didn't actually answer my question. How on earth did a judge get as far as even entering a class at HOYS? Was it just a matter of bad timing i.e. the entries for the second class were put forward before the judge was selected for the previous class? Surely all judges would automatically know not to enter? I assume this was a clerical error but some clarification would be interesting??
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Post by volatis on Dec 19, 2017 10:12:33 GMT
Apart from the fact that this recent post has dug up old news for no particular reason, the Small Hunter winner could not contest the HOYS Supreme Horse Championship as his rider had judged earlier on the same day. That is a HOYS rule for judges. There was NO 'disqualification'. This didn't actually answer my question. How on earth did a judge get as far as even entering a class at HOYS? Was it just a matter of bad timing i.e. the entries for the second class were put forward before the judge was selected for the previous class? Surely all judges would automatically know not to enter? I assume this was a clerical error but some clarification would be interesting?? The small hunter class was on a different day - no rules broken The Supreme, which it only qualified for by virtue of winning the small hunter class was on Sunday, the same day he happened to be judging. So he was not allowed to take his place in the Supreme, as per HOYS rules. No clerical error, no scandal
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