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Post by Heartbroken on Nov 6, 2017 0:53:20 GMT
I am a member but had chosen to hide whilst asking advice. I have 5 older horses that I have finally made the decision it's time for them to be pts. They are already stood miserable in the fields, in mud and have already started to lose condition and we aren't even into winter yet They can't be stabled due to each having various issues, weaver, arthritis, box walker hence them having to live out. I'm currently struggling financially, don't get me wrong they do not and never have gone with out. Like the rest of us I live off beans and other luxuries are a no go so the horses can eat. But they are already going through a hay a day, and at £40 a bale, I'm going to be even more on my a** by the time Xmas is here. Enough trying to back up my decision, it's already been made Advice needed is, I don't think I can go through with having them pts individually. And going through it all on separate days. I've had the majority of them for 20 years and I'm distraught at only having made THE decision. As anyone had more than one horse pts at a time? Can this be done? I'm definitely wanting them to be pts humanely and not by injection. How on earth do I have 5 shot on the same day without upsetting them All and having them waiting for it to be their turn. Someone please help or give me some suggestions. I'm going out of my mind wondering and thinking about the easiest way to do this to cause them All as little stress as possible. If this sounds short or insincere I apologise it is extremely hard for me to write and can't believe its that time.
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Post by gillwales on Nov 6, 2017 5:53:19 GMT
Speak to your local huntsman, he will know the best way of going about it. It might be in 2 lots, but it is so quick that they wont have time to be upset. Is there someone you trust to help you? I think you are doing the right thing. Actually if you can have them done together it will be less upsetting for them than missing a friend. I would advise against injections as they can take a while to work.
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Post by Philippa on Nov 6, 2017 6:45:36 GMT
I totally agree with Gill. Well done you for making the decision. You are a responsible owner and are doing the right thing for your animals. They have had a nice summer, no need to give them a miserable winter.
I agree with having them shot too. If you are anywhere round Yorkshire please PM me. The local abattoir is owned and run by a good friend of mine who I've grown up with and SHE is so considerate with both horses and homans when she comes to do the deed. If you are round here pm me.
Huge hugs and massive respect to you at this horrendous time xxxxx
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Post by Advice on Nov 6, 2017 6:47:30 GMT
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Post by catkin on Nov 6, 2017 9:03:02 GMT
I've never had more than two 'done' on the same day. On a practical note, the issue will be the last one to go being left on its own before the deed is done. Very best wishes with this difficult task.
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Post by ponymum on Nov 6, 2017 9:06:26 GMT
I fully appreciate your distress, but applaud that you are putting them first. If they are miserable already then it is time. Im sure the local hunt can help , God bless xxxx
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sarahp
Happy to help
Posts: 9,510
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Post by sarahp on Nov 6, 2017 9:07:07 GMT
Thank you on your horses' behalf for being strong enough to make the kindest decision for them in the circumstances.
I'd suggest talking in advance to hunt or whoever you choose to do the deed to arrange all at once if possible, letting them know the numbers involved so they can discuss with you the logistics - my hunt normally come to me with a trailer which would not be sufficient for you, for example, but may be able to bring a lorry if they know the circumstances.
I too much prefer to have them shot, and have always had them done so in my yard at home. I have been breeding for 40 years so inevitably there have been more than a few over the years, sometimes more than one at a time, and I have never yet seen any distress caused to other ponies to the sound of the shot and they don't realise what is happening. The difficult thing for them is to be without their friends so it is likely to be more distressing to you than them. I suggest that you decide in advance if you want to hold them at the last or not, and in any case if you can find a friend to support you, do - I've heard of the BHS scheme above but had no experience of it although I'm sure it can only be useful and sympathetic as Advice says above. I have an American barn system and have any going in boxes inside ready, and they are done just outside the entrance one by one and loaded up before the next comes out. Sorry to be graphic, just trying to be helpful. Those left inside do not stress, bar a jump at the shot, which is not too loud, but they are all used to the noise of shots anyway as we have shooting going on around us, never mind fireworks at this time of year.
Good luck, most of us have been there and its a natural consequence of humans having longer lives than horses. You will feel relief that it is over when it's done and you know you have done the right thing.
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Post by flee on Nov 6, 2017 9:33:34 GMT
We always have ours done at home by our local knackerman and I had two done together last year . We do it at the end of the garden where the path to the yard is screened by high hedges so neither the other horses nor my neighbours can see . He backed the wagon up the track and after the first one was done he loaded the body , shut the ramp and we covered the small area of blood with a bucketful of sand . The second pony took his turn calmly , seemingly quite oblivious to what had happened , and the process was repeated . On a practical level I think that you would need to ensure that whoever you use has the capacity to remove 5 bodies in one go , but on the plus side it is usually cheaper to have them done as a group . Even though I know that the knackerman is compassionate and extremely professional , I am the sort of person who feels the need to be with the horse right to the end , I need to know that everything went okay and it gives me a sort of closure . I have also held other peoples horses when they haven't felt able to do so themselves . It is extremely upsetting though , having one done is hard enough and I did find it very difficult to hold it together for the time it took to have two done , it was very emotionally draining . It would probably be a little easier if you are okay about not actually being with each horse whilst it is pts but , even so , I think you will struggle to deal with this on your own . You will need some solid dependable support on the day , other people getting upset is not going to help you , so possibly people who aren't emotionally involved with your horses . You are doing the right thing . Talk to your whoever you have in mind to do the job , tell them your concerns and see what they advise , and start thinking about who might be willing and available to help you . Please feel free to PM me . Best wishes .
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Post by haggisnli on Nov 6, 2017 10:36:31 GMT
i too applaud you in taking this step - its not easy but well done you , my heart goes out to you
much love x
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Post by doubt on Nov 6, 2017 11:01:56 GMT
Hard decision, but I doubt they're going through a full £40 bale a day.
Your call but whatever way you do it, it will be tough. I don't envy you this that is for sure. Do they all really need putting down? Sounds like you've made your mind up.
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Post by Heartbroken on Nov 6, 2017 11:30:17 GMT
Hard decision, but I doubt they're going through a full £40 bale a day. Your call but whatever way you do it, it will be tough. I don't envy you this that is for sure. Do they all really need putting down? Sounds like you've made your mind up. Please feel free to come to my yard and watch me put a bale in, and watch them eat it in 24 hours? Please leave your telephone number and I will call you to arrange this? If you have any other suggestions please do let me know? They probably don't all need to be pts, they probably have 5 more years left at least of them loosing weight in winter and putting it on in summer. Seriously if you think you know of any way that I can keep them all happy and healthy and in good condition please please let me know because I can't think of any thing else to do. I work every hour that God sends to pay for them and I physically couldn't work any more to get more money for them? I've had them 20 plus years. They are retired for a reason. Injury, illness, issues. They are retired for a reason and have had 10 years of wanting for nothing. Should I really consider giving them to Someone else, separating them, for someone to try and ride them. Or be passed from pillar to post to then end up at the meat man lonely and knowing I did that to them? Thanks everyone else for your support I really appreciate it. And I am going to pm the people who have offered for me too. Xx
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Post by daisycutter on Nov 6, 2017 12:18:00 GMT
doubt Don't you think you are a bit sharp with your comment disbelieving this poor lady about the amount of haylage she is feeding, why would she say this if it was not true, at this very sad time she does not need these sort of comments.
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Post by viking on Nov 6, 2017 12:50:13 GMT
doubt Don't you think you are a bit sharp with your comment disbelieving this poor lady about the amount of haylage she is feeding, why would she say this if it was not true, at this very sad time she does not need these sort of comments. I agree with you DC. Having animals put to sleep is a difficult enough decision without comments like doubts, unnecessary and in no way helpful. Well done OP for considering your horses well being before your own. Try and keep calm about it knowing you are doing the right thing having considered your options. There will be relief when it is over and the days go by. PTS is a hard thing to do, but it is the final and most loving thing that you can arrange and do for them. Hugs.
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Post by doubtful? on Nov 6, 2017 13:27:14 GMT
doubt - obviously we don't know where you live but just in case you haven't noticed its rained most of the summer in some parts of the UK and there is very little hay about so £40 for a bale is the going rate - some places its more! Five horses on muddy grazing will easily eat a bale a day, but maybe you know better? Your comment is unnecessary unless of course you're going to donate free feed for these horses over the next 6 months or more. Hope things go as well as they can OP I had a pony PTS when I moved, she lost weight every winter and put it on again in the summer but was twenty three, home bred, hated being stabled and had never loaded or travelled without great stress, it was the kindest thing to do.
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Post by pipandflo on Nov 6, 2017 14:15:24 GMT
Heartbroken, in Essex if any support needed on the day
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Post by mcnaughty on Nov 6, 2017 14:33:09 GMT
Nothing to add other than to say my heart goes out to you - massive hugs xxx
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Post by sjw87 on Nov 6, 2017 17:03:19 GMT
My heart goes out to you too. I can't add anything to the above other than to say I'm in South Cheshire (Shrops/Staffs/N. Wales border) so please do message me if I'm close enough to help at all.
Thinking of you xx
Sent from my SM-A300FU using proboards
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Post by ponymad79 on Nov 6, 2017 17:21:39 GMT
I was in this position with 3 horses several years ago and coming into the winter i hated the thought of them standing miserable in wet windy horrible fields even though like you i fed them every day . I can assure you hard as it is at the time you will be relieved when it’s over and then know you did the right thing . Be brave and i wish you all the best you sound a very kind and responsible owner to me .
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Post by doubt on Nov 6, 2017 20:29:52 GMT
I know how much hay costs I was not disputing the cost per bale. But either they're very small bales or its taking longer to eat than a day. Even if they stand on it day and night. I too would rather someone be responsible, but if there's nothing wrong with some of them then why? If your horses are losing weight, eating so much (which I still doubt having had more than 5 on bales who will literally eat day and night) then they don't sound so healthy. So yes, you're probably doing the right thing. Just really sounds like you can't be bothered with them. I couldn't be so cold, putting down healthy animals all on the same day, unless I had a terminal illness and simply couldn't do it. But never mind.
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Post by Coffee mate on Nov 6, 2017 20:58:57 GMT
I know how much hay costs I was not disputing the cost per bale. But either they're very small bales or its taking longer to eat than a day. Even if they stand on it day and night. I too would rather someone be responsible, but if there's nothing wrong with some of them then why? If your horses are losing weight, eating so much (which I still doubt having had more than 5 on bales who will literally eat day and night) then they don't sound so healthy. So yes, you're probably doing the right thing. Just really sounds like you can't be bothered with them. I couldn't be so cold, putting down healthy animals all on the same day, unless I had a terminal illness and simply couldn't do it. But never mind. What a disgusting thing to say in response to this person. If you cannot be helpful in your words,be quiet and go away and learn some humility
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Post by Heartbroken on Nov 6, 2017 21:08:46 GMT
I know how much hay costs I was not disputing the cost per bale. But either they're very small bales or its taking longer to eat than a day. Even if they stand on it day and night. I too would rather someone be responsible, but if there's nothing wrong with some of them then why? If your horses are losing weight, eating so much (which I still doubt having had more than 5 on bales who will literally eat day and night) then they don't sound so healthy. So yes, you're probably doing the right thing. Just really sounds like you can't be bothered with them. I couldn't be so cold, putting down healthy animals all on the same day, unless I had a terminal illness and simply couldn't do it. But never mind. Come on give me your telephone number and you can come and see for yourself. Let's see how Brave you are then.
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Post by Heartbroken on Nov 6, 2017 21:11:28 GMT
Sorry I shouldn't have risen to this troll. Seriously doubt, I do not need your useless input. I can be bothered but I can not cope not afford them much longer. I'm not going to spill my personal info on here but like I said if you have a better solution please do let me know As these ponies are my best friends and have helped me through life for 20 years. As if this is easy!
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Post by Philippa on Nov 6, 2017 21:12:01 GMT
I know how much hay costs I was not disputing the cost per bale. But either they're very small bales or its taking longer to eat than a day. Even if they stand on it day and night. I too would rather someone be responsible, but if there's nothing wrong with some of them then why? If your horses are losing weight, eating so much (which I still doubt having had more than 5 on bales who will literally eat day and night) then they don't sound so healthy. So yes, you're probably doing the right thing. Just really sounds like you can't be bothered with them. I couldn't be so cold, putting down healthy animals all on the same day, unless I had a terminal illness and simply couldn't do it. But never mind. This person has cared for these animals and is now being a responsible owner and having them pts before winter sets in and they go downhill. Would you rather they be sold through a cheap market for buttons and end their days with gypsies tethered at the side of the road or sent to slaughter in a lorry full of other horses, put into pens and driven into the killing chute or worse still the hay stop coming cos of the cost and they starve to death??? I take my hat off to the owner of these horses for taking the bravest step in ownership - realising when it's time to do the right thing. There are far too many do gooders who feel they can do better, well hey ho, the gauntlet is down, get your purse out and pay for the food & hay, call it adopt a pony!!! It's not always economically practical to keep animals and you have to be realistic as well. They are obviously of that age where some are 'ok' but not ok enough to be sold. And I know she is heartbroken - I hope you never have to face this situation doubt, but if you do, remember your harsh words and don't expect sympathy.
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Post by Emotional on Nov 6, 2017 23:07:23 GMT
Doubt - your comments are unesscessary
However as these are horse my horses too, I feel the need to comment: the decision has not been taken lightly it goes against everything we have believed and fought hard for. I have cried for three days thinking about it.
All of our horses have wanted for nothing over the years, some of them have come only to be loved and fed from Neglected and abusive homes.
Others have been our childhood companions listening to our deepest thought and helping us through Our darkest days.
But they are all currently in there field probably aching now the cold weather has hit from the arthritis that's kicking in. They have there hay and yes a bale a day is right these are big horses they take a lot of feeding the older ones struggle with the short winter grass so hay is there preference.
The are many illnesses we face one we have battled laminitis for over 3 years paying £1000's in vet bills farriers, homeopathy, physio etc do you really think we would just give up if we could help it?
No!!! We are fighters we get stuck in we work our backsides off and juggle or our own issues to make sure our animals are fed and water and cared for each day.
So please unless you would like to come down and care for them and fund them over winter then keep your comments to yourself this is one of the most difficult things I have ever had to do and is on par of turning my mothers life support off!!!
So you can see that we are not selfish, we are not doing this for anyone but them.
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Post by pinkvboots on Nov 6, 2017 23:35:46 GMT
I just wanted to say I think your totally doing the right thing not an easy decision at all my heart goes out to you, I hope you manage to get some help and support on the day so it goes as well as possible under the circumstances.
Please try to ignore any insensitive comments.
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Post by CarolineNelson on Nov 7, 2017 8:02:43 GMT
Well said, "Advice". The BHS's "Friends at the End" scheme has people trained to help folks such as yourself through the problems. They are there to support, not to advise or to dictate. I am one such. Everyone has been through the process with their own animals. Understands the pain, the self-sacrifice and are still there for you at the end of the phone even weeks later, if you wish.. Earlier this year I assisted a family with two horses - 'best friends'. It can be done. With my support and that of a sympathetic slaughterman, the two were away within 15 minutes of each other. In this case, it was possible to have the second one in his familiar stable, and out of sight. Are you in a position to put the others somewhere similar? It's a consideration to perhaps chose to send two and then three. or vice-versa. It's your call. Have a friend or friends to help - to lead the others away and talk with them quietly. The BHS 'Friend' would be some-one to help here, too. On a very practical note, you mentioned 'mud'. You'll need a hardstanding where the vehicle can be reversed to without the risk of getting stuck. Hopefully, your field is well away from domestic dwellings for privacy? A good alternative is to take them all to a kindly yard who can help you with the 'stabling' and 'privacy'. Perhaps your local Hunt kennels / stables might help you with this? It may cost a wee bit in transportation, but may be worth it. As others have said and given super advice, you are being very brave and very sensible. I applaud your thoughts; your decision. And must emphasise, the BHS "Friend" is there for support, not to judge. Nor must others. It's your circumstances, your horses. Not theirs. You say you are a member of HG. Call the excellent team at the BHS Welfare department, but please feel free to send me a PM if you wish. BHS 'Friends' are utterly discrete - that is part of the support offered. I promise, it goes no further. x
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Post by Ididtwo on Nov 7, 2017 8:22:33 GMT
Dear Heartbroken, I feel your pain and support your decision completely. We were in a similar position with a 17 & 19 year old my son's first ponies. We had lost our grazing and they were difficult ponies so we chose to have them both shot on the same day instead of passing them on to goodness knows what. It was hard, I won't lie but I had help on the day from a non emotionally connected person who took each one while I stayed with the other and tried to act "normal" Our local zoo head of carnivores took care of mine..they were so kind and efficient..10 mins and all over..they first was cleared before the second..so they saw nothing.. You ARE doing the right thing. You sleep well knowing you had them all with YOU and were loved until the end. Best wishes Liza
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Post by whiplass on Nov 7, 2017 8:46:40 GMT
If only all owners were as responsible , I hate the fact so many people cant make the brave decision to have their animals pts but keep them alive when the future is not rosy for them . I really applaud this person for her brave and heartbreaking decision .
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Post by HighSociety on Nov 7, 2017 10:36:11 GMT
Have a hug and a huge sigh of relief for making your decision. This is the kindest, most responsible thing you can do. Don't be heartbroken, be glad for the lives you gave them, for the joy they gave you, and for the knowledge that you have done right by them. It is all at once the hardest thing, the bravest thing, and the BEST THING, for them, for you, for all of us. If only more owners would be so responsible.
OP, do focus on the practicalities. SarahP has highlighted some useful things to bear in mind. It will help you emotionally now, and also in terms of how smoothly things go, if you plan carefully. Think of it as the last great thing you are going to do for your horses. Stabling them somehow, even if all in a barn or coral together away from where the despatch will happen, is really useful. Have a neutral person there to help, whether you think you need them or not. Just do it, just in case. Make it happen as soon as you can; once you've made the decision it is really hard to look at them every day. Cut a big section of each horse's tail to keep. You might one day want to do something to commemorate them. I have a whole drawer full of plastic sandwich bags with sections of various tails. I like just knowing that I have them.
Suggestion if you are going to involve your local hunt. Sorry for grim details, but it's unlikely that the hunt flesh lorry will be able to take all the carcasses in one go, and you, and the horses, need it to happen as quickly as possible. One option might be for the hunt's horse lorry to transport the horses live to the kennels in two trips, put all the horses in stables or a paddock or a coral together, and then take them one at a time to the place in the yard, out of sight, where they are despatched. We have done it this way before when more than one horse has been involved. Honestly, the horses don't get stressed because they travel together, and the last thing they see and hear is the beautiful hounds. If the horses are able to be handled and loaded ok, this is what I would do rather than try to deal with doing things in a field, and keeping the last settled through the whole process of the others, and so on. There will be other horses at the kennels too so your last one need not be left waiting on his/her own.
And ALLOW yourself to grieve in whatever way you feel. It is a massive loss from your life, and even if financially and practically things will be eased for you, you will feel that loss, so don't punish yourself by not allowing yourself to be upset. You are doing brilliantly by thinking of the horses, but think of yourself too. Try not to carry the loss as a burden; see it as a setting free... of them... of you. Massive good wishes. Please let us know how it goes.
And please, if you need help and for any reason cannot or don't want to use the BHS service, let us know where you are and one of us from here can surely come to help, or find someone near you who will help. Are you in touch with your local hunt?
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Post by whataday on Nov 7, 2017 11:43:15 GMT
HEARTBROKEN MY DAUGHTER'S PONY HAD GOT TO THE AGE OF 23 AND WAS GOING DOWNHILL SO SHE HAD TO MAKE THE SAD DECISION TO PTS WE GAVE HER THE LAST GOOD SUMMER AND BEFORE THE WEATHER TURNED BAD WE ARRANGED IT WITH OUR VET WHO WE HAVE HAD 20 PLUS YEARS, HE WAS FANTASTIC AND WE DECIDED TO USE THE INJECTION METHOD AS MY DAUGHTER THOUGHT THE SOUND OF A SHOT WOULD WRECK HER, ANYHOW THE PONY WAS SEDATED FIRST THEN MY DAUGHTER TOOK HER OUT AND HELD HER WHILE THE VET GAVE THE INJECTION. IT WAS OVER STRAIGHT AWAY AND VERY PEACEFUL THE PONY SLOWLY SANK TO THE FLOOR AS IF JUST LAYING DOWN AND MY DAUGHTER LAY WITH HER GIVING A CUDDLE, I GUESS THERE ARE PROS AND CONS EITHER WAY OF DOING IT AND THE CHOICE HAS TO BE YOURS BUT GOOD LUCK AND OUR THOUGHTS ARE WITH YOU. TO THIS DAY THE PONY'S TACK REMAINS IN THE HOUSE AS MY DAUGHTER STILL CANNOT PART WITH IT SO DO KEEP A MOMENTO OF YOURS.
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