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Post by Market research on Nov 22, 2017 20:25:49 GMT
Just trying to do a little market research. Hopefully in the new year I will be moving to a lovely yard with loads of fantastic facilities - and I'm just wondering how much people would be willing to pay for full livery/ schooling/ producing/ breaking livery. I am freelance currently as well as having my own horses- but have quite a few people wanting to send me horses hence why we will be moving fingers crossed!
Facilities include; all year round turnout, 2x outdoor arenas- 1 dressage and 1 with full set of jumps, full xc course, horse walker, central location, hacking round farm and good local hacking, indoor and outdoor stables, wash box with hot water (potentially solarium), on site security 24/7, on site competitions, close to motorways.
Looking to see what you would pay for full livery- and what exactly you would want for that.
Same question as above for schooling /producing/ breaking/ part livery.
Don't want to over charge nor under. And obviously need to make sure it covers costs.
Thanks guys!
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Post by gillwales on Nov 22, 2017 21:17:38 GMT
You need to advise where this is going to be as area has a great influence on costs. Research other yards in your area to see what your competition is.
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Post by Market research on Nov 22, 2017 21:57:06 GMT
Warwickshire based
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Post by Philippa on Nov 23, 2017 2:45:19 GMT
This is from a yard near us in West Yorkshire with excellent facilities.
Full Livery Service £375 per calendar month/£86.50 per week
Our Full Livery service is fully comprehensive and provides everything your horse requires to keep it happy, healthy and in peak condition. Your horse is our number 1 priority. Our Full Livery package includes:- • 12 x 12ft light and airy stables with automatic water drinkers • Hard Feed (tailored to your horses specific needs) • Unlimited Haylage • Shavings Bedding • Daily morning mucking out and tea time skipping out • All year daily turnout in electric fenced paddocks - Either individual or in pairs • Use of all facilities (indoor school, outdoor school, jumping school with newly installed Combi Ride Surface, Hot and Cold Horse Wash etc.) • On site off road riding across our private land • No time restrictions on when you can visit. We are open as early or late as your needs require • There is no need for you to attend routine vet and farrier visits as you can arrange for us to provide any assistance your vet or farrier may require • Alarmed Tack Room with individual tack lockers • CCTV and 24 hour on site supervision • A friendly and professional yard tailored to maximising the enjoyment and success of every horse and rider combination
As well as all of this, our full livery service includes many things that other 'full' livery services omit. Should your horse need any additional attention due to injury, e.g. cold hosing, limited turn out or wound cleaning, we will attend to this at no additional cost. There are no extra charges for effort required, to meet the full daily needs of your horse. This service means that you truly don’t need to worry about your horse when you are busy with other things. We really do what we say we do and will always go the extra mile.
Extra services available • Schooling, hacking, light exercising and lunging for when other commitments prevent you from riding • Use of Horse Walker • Lessons and rider development • Tack Cleaning • Grooming, Clipping and Show preparation • Arrangement for rug cleaning and repair • Wagon and Trailer storage • And much more!
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Post by janetbushell on Nov 23, 2017 9:33:56 GMT
Full Livery Service £375 per calendar month/£86.50 per week Read more: horsegossip.proboards.com/thread/213111/pay#ixzz4zFIA1qFsNo idea how many stables available on this yard BUT having run a yard at the end of the 90s I find it very hard to believe that this can be an economical figure for any yard with today's costs & would seriously question whether they are truly covering these without another source of income! Business rates, Business insurance, Staff national insurance & pension alone would take a very large chunk of this weekly fee IMO
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Post by GaynorStones on Nov 23, 2017 9:42:34 GMT
I pay a lot more than that for full livery! Yard has indoor, outdoor, horse walker, wash room Derbyshire
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Post by Philippa on Nov 23, 2017 9:44:12 GMT
She runs a very successful professional yard Janet. I know people who have been there and my farrier also shoes on that yard. Don’t forget we are in sunny tight yorkshire lol
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Post by chloesmum on Nov 23, 2017 10:50:31 GMT
WOW so much for the North/South divide again!!!! Our local livery yard charges around £180 per week I think for full livery and they don't have an indoor school. The joys of living in the so called 'Sunny' South!! Rubbish hacking as well! I would think Warwickshire is quite a competitive area I would look at what other establishments are charging. the facilities sound great but as Janet says you don't want to undercut yourself if this is going to be your business as Janet points out there are always business costs to factor in. Good Luck with your venture. Edited to add - just to rub salt in the wound a field opposite where we are lucky enough to keep our ponies (at a friends private yard) came up in the summer and we thought it could be useful for Jacob who lives on his own at the other end of our village courtesy of my accountant! Anyway said field is probably big enough for 2 ponies and has 2 stables and running water but no electricity. The rent was £375 a calender month! Needless to say we didn't take it but someone has with 2 ponies, they have to do all the fencing and have put in new gates as security was not good. Land in the South is like gold dust!!
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Post by janetbushell on Nov 23, 2017 11:35:33 GMT
She runs a very successful professional yard Janet. I know people who have been there and my farrier also shoes on that yard. Don’t forget we are in sunny tight yorkshire lol Not talking about the professionalism in any way Philippa, or how successful, but even if she has no other staff for costs, business rates (& there is no agricultural let off for equestrian business) & just paying herself the basic minimum wage plus insurance & pension contribution I cannot see how this can be economical unless she owns outright the land, stables etc with no mortgage or gets them rent free. If this is the case then I would hazard a guess that the place is part of a larger enterprise & these costs are not taken into account as they would usually need to be for anyone simply running a yard as a single business. Edited to add that we have also kept a horse at full livery in Yorkshire (this century LOL!) & were paying more than this then.
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Post by Livery on Nov 23, 2017 11:44:23 GMT
I live in Warwickshire, If you check out some of the Warwickshire horsey selling FB pages as there's people advertising liveries on there to give you an idea of your competition (& a good place to advertise yourself) try looking up MS livery as a comparison.
I'd say the following would be a rough guide-
Full Schooling Livery £130-£160pw Full Livery £120-£140pw Part Livery £90-110pw DIY £30-60pw
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Post by north warwickshire on Nov 23, 2017 12:48:58 GMT
wouldn't expect less than £130 a week for full livery
We pay £50 assisted DIY, breakfast rug change and turnout everyday, unlimited hay and straw use of school; show jumps; rug wash and hot horse shower
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Post by showshine on Nov 23, 2017 22:55:52 GMT
Warwickshire lacks a producer. Could be lucrative as virtually no others in the area.
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Post by Wow ! on Nov 23, 2017 23:44:13 GMT
4 years ago I had a horse on Box rest for 6 weeks, feed wise on Allen and Paige fast fibre, rowan and Barbary ready mash, generic alfalfa chaff and ad lib steamed hay. Three bales of shavings per week as in all the time. Cold hosing at least three times a day. Grooming, feet cleaning out and rug changes. Odd tail wash. Equimassage pad once a day. Holding him for the vet and farrier. By my reckoning that is still at least 2 hours of attention every day if everything done properly. At minimum wage that's £104.58 in labour alone. Wish i'd known about this place as it would have been cheaper to send him away than do myself. After that all the controlled walking in hand started ,in addition to the above mentioned care, eventually up to hour and a half a day. He got better, I got lamer lol. I'm in Somerset, basic full livery starts at £140 pw, Inc. 4x exercise per week, basic feed, bedding (2 bale pw normal, pay additional any more than that). Turnout, rug changes, setting fair and picking out feet. Everything else is extra. Don't forget to factor in running costs and paying yourself. Good luck
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Post by Philippa on Nov 23, 2017 23:54:15 GMT
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Post by janetbushell on Nov 24, 2017 7:35:38 GMT
Philippa I don't think anyone is doubting what you say exists, but merely that for the OP these type of prices would be totally unrealistic
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Post by Philippa on Nov 24, 2017 12:43:33 GMT
Round here about £80 - £100 is pretty standard. On our yard it’s £65 for full livery 5 days a week. We have an arena, all year turnout and hayledge & shavings. I still do my own though lol.
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Post by Philippa on Nov 24, 2017 12:52:33 GMT
Philippa I don't think anyone is doubting what you say exists, but merely that for the OP these type of prices would be totally unrealistic No no I’m not saying they are but I think people need to know the full spectrum of prices for what’s on offer. It’s not always the cheapest that’s the best or the most expensive. A middle ground is always helpful. The one I’ve attached just shows what some people are offering. It’s all about researching the local areas.
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tda
Junior Member
Posts: 55
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Post by tda on Dec 2, 2017 10:36:03 GMT
Rockwood don't do full livery anymore. You pay D I y rates and all extras are paid direct to the girls who work there
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Post by CarolineNelson on Dec 2, 2017 11:25:52 GMT
"FULL LIVERY" - is term which, misused, can be confusing.
I totally agree with Janet Bushell. To me (as a now-retired Show Producer, maintaining a yard from the mid-70's through the 80's, 90's and into the 2000's) the term should mean just that. FULL. The owner's animal is on the yard of the trainer/producer/manager and ALL care, management, handling, schooling is done by the trainer and staff of the premises. 100% of it, 24/7.
Working down the spectrum, the so-called 'full livery' referred to in some of the above posts is, in reality, "Assisted Livery" as the owner still has considerable daily/weekly input.
Therefore, the only way that it could be viable for the Yard Owner/Trainer/Producer at a moderate fee is - the more input from the owner, the less yard staff have to do with the animal, thus saving time and wages.
£100+pw was a regular rate 18-20 years ago for top-class Full (Schooling/Production-type) Livery. Then, add the usual ancillary costs of Farrier, Vet, worming, individual supplements, entry, exhibiting, transport etc..
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Post by sjw87 on Dec 2, 2017 13:57:49 GMT
Caroline is absolutely right - everyone provides a different level of service under the umbrella of 'full livery'.
Generally nowadays full livery doesn't include exercise. That tends to be schooling/competition/hunter livery. Full livery nowadays tends to refer to just the care/management aspect.
Some yards just have a set rate, others have a basic stabling/turnout rate and then charge everything else as extra (eg. Bedding, hay, feed by useage); this can work out cheaper for some people and more expensive for others but often in this day and age, (without wanting to make too much of a generalised statement), this method can ensure that horses actually have a good enough bed and enough forage. Can also be easier for the yard owner as so many people feed so many different products nowadays so often want to supply their own or stipulate what their horse has rather than just having a basic 'yard diet'.
Some offer '5 day' full livery where the owner is responsible for weekends but this can upset horses who get used to having a yard routine in the week then an individual routine at weekends.
Essentially you need to work out how much what you are wanting to offer is going to cost you, how much you need to charge to be able to cover all costs and provide high levels of care along with adequate facilities/maintenance. Ensure you allow for staff wages, even if it's just for illness/holiday cover - minimum wage will NOT get reliable, experienced grooms nowadays. Then look if that figure is suitable for your area. If you can't make figures work in theory then I can promise you that they won't work in practice either!
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Post by honeypot on Dec 2, 2017 16:57:01 GMT
As above. Work out your costs, rent or mortgage, water leccy, insurance, cost of repairs to buildings and land. Then feed, hay and labour per horse. Unless you are very lucky it will not be profitable.
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