kaya
Junior Member
Posts: 121
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Post by kaya on Dec 5, 2017 21:52:41 GMT
I have a horse on my yard that arrived from Ireland three weeks ago with a random passport & no recorded breeding.
I have no problem with that, as he is a show cob & a gelding. The passport was only issued in September this year & says that his year of birth was 2013, making him 4.
Looking at his teeth though, he must be at least 6, if not 7. (Dentist already booked as they are a mess)
My question is, providing that the microchip number matches the passport, where does the owner stand when the ages do not correspond?
A vet obviously signed the identification document prior to the passport being issued, so does the owner have to go with the age on the passport?
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Post by Philippa on Dec 6, 2017 6:17:44 GMT
I would assume so yes but does it make a huge difference to the owner??
Also I had a Dentist to one of my section a’s once and he was adamant the pony was older than his passport. I assured him that I knew the pony’s history since birth and he was absolutely the age in his passport.
It’s not always cut & dried. I’d be interested to hear what your Dentist says though.
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Post by lucynlizzysmum on Dec 6, 2017 6:54:15 GMT
I would say that the owner has to go with the age on the passport - I have not heard of anyone challenging a passport!
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Post by ponymum on Dec 6, 2017 9:04:25 GMT
Well I could if I wanted! I sold a mare years ago and the eventual owner who showed her to many many wins was exhibiting her under completely the wrong breeding! (Knowingly I may add!)
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kaya
Junior Member
Posts: 121
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Post by kaya on Dec 6, 2017 12:43:51 GMT
The scary part is that a vet signed the Identification document in September 2017 to say his date of birth is 2013 and all 4 canine teeth are clearly there & have been for a while.
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Post by Philippa on Dec 6, 2017 14:10:45 GMT
Well I could if I wanted! I sold a mare years ago and the eventual owner who showed her to many many wins was exhibiting her under completely the wrong breeding! (Knowingly I may add!) For a reason?
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Post by gillwales on Dec 6, 2017 17:08:29 GMT
If you are a producer then there is a possibility that this could backfire on you. Therefore I would avoid filling out any entry forms for this animal. Have you spoken to the owner? If not I would make them aware of it as if they have only just purchased the horse she may well have a case to get a refund as this could be fraud.
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kaya
Junior Member
Posts: 121
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Post by kaya on Dec 6, 2017 17:20:02 GMT
The horse is allegedly unbroken, he came over from Ireland 3 weeks ago with the story that he had been entire and unhandled, until the dealer got him. The passport was obtained when he was castrated in September. On arrival over here, the purchaser realised that they had bitten off more than they could chew & immediately sold him on, hence him being with me. The owner is fully aware of the age issue & the fact that an older horse that has been entire can be a challenge. Having said that, he is a lovely boy, a little frightened, but will be taken slowly & given every chance.
I’m not a producer, & it is doubtful that there will be any litigation here, I was just curious about the passport.
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Post by oldschooler on Dec 6, 2017 18:03:30 GMT
The horse is allegedly unbroken, he came over from Ireland 3 weeks ago with the story that he had been entire and unhandled, until the dealer got him. The passport was obtained when he was castrated in September. On arrival over here, the purchaser realised that they had bitten off more than they could chew & immediately sold him on, hence him being with me. The owner is fully aware of the age issue & the fact that an older horse that has been entire can be a challenge. Having said that, he is a lovely boy, a little frightened, but will be taken slowly & given every chance. I’m not a producer, & it is doubtful that there will be any litigation here, I was just curious about the passport. I was in a similar situation with the pony I bought end of 2016. Cannot believe now how slack I was. Over from Ireland came with the scantiest of passport - no markings though a skewbald - and aged 5. Was so pleased with her, and as she had a passport never even thought to check her teeth, was too busy looking for other things and giving her a thorough riding assessment. Had to send her passport back to Ireland for change of ownership and due to the firm owning the Issuing Office licence being sold the passport got lost. I had the original passport number and she was micro-chipped so was able to apply for another passport through CHAPS. Had the vet to do the markings etc so we then actually looked at her teeth and was very surprised to see she was only 3 rising 4. So for me it turned out well as the pony has an accurate passport, the age was not an issue but for the seller 5 looked better than 3. What is worrying is how I was able to get another passport so easily as I think the original passport had only been issued a few months earlier. I think a lot in Ireland are not passported from birth as they are here, so age can be rather a "How old is it?" "How old do you want it to be?" situation.
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kaya
Junior Member
Posts: 121
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Post by kaya on Dec 6, 2017 18:10:42 GMT
Oldschooler, what you say is very true. It is much easier to sell an unbroken 4yo than an unbroken 6/7 yo.
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Post by gillwales on Dec 6, 2017 19:31:53 GMT
So much for being in the EU! There have been reports of ponies over here being re passported with a non breed society, it is very concerning as these animals are mostly sold onto novice people and usually have the ages reduced.
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kaya
Junior Member
Posts: 121
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Post by kaya on Dec 6, 2017 20:27:52 GMT
So much for being in the EU! There have been reports of ponies over here being re passported with a non breed society, it is very concerning as these animals are mostly sold onto novice people and usually have the ages reduced. Very True. This horse clearly has a lot of Irish Draught blood, but his breeding is now lost, so if he does come good, no credit to the bloodline or breeder. I have made enquiries, as I have friends in the area from which he came, but nobody appears to know his history.
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Post by ponymum on Dec 7, 2017 9:49:16 GMT
Well I could if I wanted! I sold a mare years ago and the eventual owner who showed her to many many wins was exhibiting her under completely the wrong breeding! (Knowingly I may add!) For a reason? Possibly something to do with a height certificate!
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Post by Philippa on Dec 7, 2017 21:43:33 GMT
Ah. The things people do!!!!
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Post by ponymum on Dec 8, 2017 8:38:24 GMT
I know ,very underhand !
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Post by gillwales on Dec 8, 2017 19:33:44 GMT
Many years ago, prior to passports I had a Hanoverian Stallion, my Vet approached me about microchipping and said that the security could reduce my insurance costs so I spoke to my insurers ; The NFU, who advised me it was a complete waste of time and that they would give no discounts as all was needed was a scanner and a razor blade to nick out the microchip. This says a lot about the so called security of passports and microchipping
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Post by ponymum on Dec 11, 2017 10:07:41 GMT
Crikey! Who would go to the lengths of removing a microchip with a razor blade???
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sarahp
Happy to help
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Post by sarahp on Dec 11, 2017 10:34:03 GMT
A thief?
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kaya
Junior Member
Posts: 121
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Post by kaya on Dec 11, 2017 17:46:27 GMT
Well the dentist has been. He is 6!
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Post by gillwales on Dec 11, 2017 19:12:00 GMT
goes to prove what you thought was correct!
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sarahp
Happy to help
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Post by sarahp on Dec 11, 2017 19:25:11 GMT
Years ago before passports I bought, and then sold two years later, a pony mare. My vet, the same one, vetted her both times and made her three years older the second time instead of two. Aging by teeth is not an exact science! and I think finding out that a horse bought from Ireland is actually a different age is an old story! Friend of mine bought one, and it must have been hunting over there as a 3yo!
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kaya
Junior Member
Posts: 121
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Post by kaya on Dec 11, 2017 20:07:56 GMT
Years ago before passports I bought, and then sold two years later, a pony mare. My vet, the same one, vetted her both times and made her three years older the second time instead of two. Aging by teeth is not an exact science! and I think finding out that a horse bought from Ireland is actually a different age is an old story! Friend of mine bought one, and it must have been hunting over there as a 3yo! The gripe really isn’t about him being from Ireland, more that a vet signed the passport, which was only issued this September, to say he was 4, when he clearly isn’t. A mouth where the teeth are brown, with all 4 canine teeth well through would be most unusual in a 4 yo.
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