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Post by Isitright? on Jan 21, 2018 20:20:06 GMT
Just wondered what everyones thoughts are. I am aware of a livery on my yard who is trying to falsify an insurance claim for loss of use. The horse has had an issue which was claimed for and he is now sound and being ridden but as she can no longer compete him as he is blemished she is trying to claim a percentage loss of use and even is considering having him pts to get full amount paid out. Im flabergasted as she plans to tell insurance he is unsound & unrideable. I feel ethically and morally this isnt right putting an animal to sleep who could have a job just for money but more so is this not fraud which pushes insurance premiums up. What are peoples thoughts? What would you do? Report the issue or stay out of it?
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Post by Philippa on Jan 21, 2018 20:40:11 GMT
She would need to get vets reports to claim loss of use or to claim for pts. I'm sure the vets will see through her if she calls them out.
Totally immoral and wrong on all levels. I'm a big believer in fate. I'm sure it will bite her on the backside regardless of your interception or not.
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Post by lucynlizzysmum on Jan 22, 2018 6:29:40 GMT
Totally wrong, and I agree with Philippa!
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Post by oldschooler on Jan 23, 2018 17:32:53 GMT
She would need to get vets reports to claim loss of use or to claim for pts. I'm sure the vets will see through her if she calls them out. Totally immoral and wrong on all levels. I'm a big believer in fate. I'm sure it will bite her on the backside regardless of your interception or not. Completely agree - immoral. I have claimed through insurance in the past and have needed to provide a full print out of the horse's veterinary history so cannot see how she can get away with this fraud. And it is fraud. Also a reason why insurance premiums are increasing.
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Post by Realistic on Jan 29, 2018 19:51:26 GMT
Mind your own business!
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Post by baileybob on Jan 30, 2018 19:11:11 GMT
Fraud is everyone’s business....it’s us who pay for it!!!!! It’s also a crime...if someone was breaking into your neighbours or stealing a car, would you “mind your own business”? Fraud is no less of a crime and we all pay for it.
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Post by lucynlizzysmum on Jan 30, 2018 20:57:01 GMT
Fraud is everyone’s business....it’s us who pay for it!!!!! It’s also a crime...if someone was breaking into your neighbours or stealing a car, would you “mind your own business”? Fraud is no less of a crime and we all pay for it. Well said Baileybob
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Post by lucynlizzysmum on Jan 31, 2018 9:15:32 GMT
Realistic - further to your comment of "mind your own business", contrary to what some may think fraud is not a victimless crime. Having had to have a horse put down due to a degenerative disease in order to claim insurance a full report mut be submitted by the vet - who will not jeopardise their career by trying to push. Having been interviewed over a suspected fraudulent insurance claim (I was 100% exonerated and actually had an apology and compensation from the insurance company) it is not a pleasant experience. But the trouble is, people who push the boundaries of what is fair and reasonable result in the rest of us paying through the nose a,d being met with suspicion over something which is honest. So actually Realistic - perhaps you should mind your own!
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Post by Toaster on Jan 31, 2018 11:07:30 GMT
I always thought that to insure for loss of use the primary use of the equine has to be specified for example: eventing or showing and that loss of use referred to this specified activity rather than the loss of use of the horse itself
So a blemished show horse may no longer be able to be shown therefore loses its 'use' or an eventer may not be able to jump anymore for example
There are definitely many horses out there with loss of use freezemarks still being worked and competed in spheres other than their intended one, ex eventers doing dressage is a common one
Loss of use is not to say the horse is permanently unable to work
Its a shame the owner is considering putting the horse to sleep because its blemished but to claim for this the horse needs to be put to sleep under BEVA guidelines and so it will not qualify on the basis of a blemish and to claim loss of use the vet will have to have input so I cant see how she will get away with saying the horse is unsound
Are you sure there is fraud at work here? could it be that you (and even the owner!) simply do not have all the information?
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Post by quite right on Jan 31, 2018 20:07:29 GMT
quite right Toaster. We insured for loss of use for showing and the policy clearly states that blemishes do not count. So, if he received an injury that rendered him unsound - even if he was sound with medication, he would have qualified for LOU because clearly he couldn't be shown with any illegal substance.
I can't think that a Vet would even consider writing it off for loss of use when it is now sound. To qualify for compensation under BEVA guidelines, the horse has to be in a condition where there is no other alternative than immediate destruction to put it out of its misery - such as a broken leg etc. I think that many people are under the misconception that under death coverage, they are comprehensively covered for every eventuality where it is only immediate destruction that would be paid out. So, for example, if you horse contracts an injury, various treatments are attempted to restore him back to health - you are not eligible for BEVA destruction payout because it could always live happily out in a field.
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Post by Realistic on Feb 2, 2018 20:15:24 GMT
Mind your own business! You don’t know what, how much for or any details of the horse’s insurance at all! Unless, that is, you have a copy of their policy and agreement! Everything you have said is complete “hearsay”! No one on this site knows either! I suggest you go and do some good on some worth while cause that you are knowledgable about.
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Post by Philippa on Feb 3, 2018 8:03:13 GMT
Mind your own business! You don’t know what, how much for or any details of the horse’s insurance at all! Unless, that is, you have a copy of their policy and agreement! Everything you have said is complete “hearsay”! No one on this site knows either! I suggest you go and do some good on some worth while cause that you are knowledgable about. Someone's back is up!!! Close to home is it??? Truth hurts eh!!! No names are mentioned so even as a hyperthetical question it makes for a good topic.
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Post by bigmama on Feb 3, 2018 16:27:20 GMT
Several quotes come to mind ....
"Too see and not speak would be the great betrayal", Enoch Powell
"The lady doth protest too much", Wm Shakespeare
"Cheats never prosper" and "The truth will out", my father, A Brooker
... take your pick
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Post by Realistic on Feb 6, 2018 18:49:51 GMT
I can assure you all that this subject is certainly not “close to home.” Simply because someone does not share your opinion there is no need to suggest that I am in any way myself capable of a “dodgy” insurance claim myself!!!! How very foolish of you to suggest otherwise!!!! The original post asked if she should become involved or basically “ignore”. As myself (and others) have stated she is not and can not be aware of the facts. She has not read the policy agreement herself and has not been privy to a full veterinary report. With all this in mind I would therefore suggest that she refrains from becoming involved and as such “minds her own business”. As a moderator I would suggest that throwaway comments as above are used a little more carefully.
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Post by Philippa on Feb 6, 2018 21:56:53 GMT
I can assure you all that this subject is certainly not “close to home.” Simply because someone does not share your opinion there is no need to suggest that I am in any way myself capable of a “dodgy” insurance claim myself!!!! How very foolish of you to suggest otherwise!!!! The original post asked if she should become involved or basically “ignore”. As myself (and others) have stated she is not and can not be aware of the facts. She has not read the policy agreement herself and has not been privy to a full veterinary report. With all this in mind I would therefore suggest that she refrains from becoming involved and as such “minds her own business”. As a moderator I would suggest that throwaway comments as above are used a little more carefully. Moderator or not I as everyone else on here is allowed their own opinion.
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Post by baileybob on Feb 7, 2018 12:24:20 GMT
You do not need to know all the facts to be concerned. You are not judge and jury and it is not your responsibility to conduct the investigation. You only need to suspect (and most of the time, there is a valid reason for suspicions to have been raised) and if you felt so inclined to report it to the insurance company/vet/authorities, then it is for them to investigate...if nothing is amiss then the person has absolutely nothing to worry about....there would only be a problem if they are up to no good! To be honest, it is very difficult to pull the wool over the eyes of an insurance company anyway, they don’t miss a trick.
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Post by Realistic on Feb 7, 2018 20:29:19 GMT
Fair enough Moderator I agree we can all have an opinion but be a little more careful if you choose to make insinuations unless they are founded on facts. I genuinely would be careful of making aspersions about something that I was not fully knowledgable about! After all as the other “knowledgable” lady on here has pointed out you are in fact accusing someone of fraud. The lady needs to be very careful of doing so especially when also having to share facilities on a livery yard. Mind your own business! I’m quite sure the veterinarian and the insurance company are quite capable of determining if the claim is valid!
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Post by gillwales on Feb 8, 2018 15:01:51 GMT
If you are certain of your facts then I would contact your local Police as this is fraud which is a crime. For those of you that think it is ok, these sorts of claims increase the insurance costs for all of us.
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