|
Post by age limit on Apr 9, 2018 15:07:38 GMT
Whilst bored (very) at work, I have been reading through some older HG posts. I see lots about the lack of entries for SHP nowadays. Is it time to scrap the age limit? I for one would love the opportunity to compete my SHP and try the qualifiers but I am too old and she is no childs pony. Your thoughts? Would it help increase entried? I know of at least one other person in my 'circle' with a SHP that is too old to compete so does other things.
|
|
|
Post by gillwales on Apr 9, 2018 16:12:55 GMT
I think that the age limits for both RP and SHP should be scrapped and is one of the reasons why M & M's are so popular. However the NPS do classes without age limits.
|
|
|
Post by chloesmum on Apr 9, 2018 17:30:09 GMT
Yes I would love to see them scrapped but not at all heights. I think the 143cm& 153cm SHP classes and perhaps the 148cm SP class could be lifted but not the smaller heights. Many people feel these are or should be childrens riding ponies and I don't disagree but with such declining numbers in qualifiers (unbelievably last year we saw a RIHS SHP class with NO entries) and breeders giving up due to the lack of market this could help solve the problem. I really feel we are losing type so much in the SHP classes which is such a shame. NPS do offer open age classes which is great but for many keeping a pony which you cannot then compete for RIHS or HOYS is not viable. Being the plaited lover that I am I would be a very happy person to maybe have a SHP or SP again, hopefully before I am too old to start plaiting again!!! Although probably my hands will tell me I am!
|
|
bugs
Junior Member
Posts: 121
|
Post by bugs on Apr 9, 2018 19:46:55 GMT
Yes me too... would be great for us 👍🏼
|
|
|
Post by sjw87 on Apr 9, 2018 21:13:19 GMT
My plaiteds are all veterans now as the youngsters coming through the ranks are hairy. I have coloureds so am not restricted age wise, it's just been through chance that I've gone towards hairies.
What I have noticed though is that despite there being no age restriction, even with the coloureds there has been a decline in numbers of plaited ponies. They're still top quality but just lacking in number. Hairy ponies on the other hand are more popular than ever.
I do think that removing or at least relaxing some of the age limits would be a good thing though. There are more and more amateur and/or home produced competitors on the circuit, many of whom neither want nor can afford to buy and sell ponies that are perfectly suitable for their jockey but said jockey is out of the class age wise.
This decline has been happening for a while so we can't blame the weight debate but I can see it reducing numbers further.
|
|
|
Post by chloesmum on Apr 10, 2018 13:28:50 GMT
Thinking about this a bit more one of the other barriers to removing age limit is that quite understandably people don't want these classes being dominated by small, lightweight professional riders/producers so another idea would be to make them amateur rider only - of course all children are amateurs as don't make a living from horses but this would still enable small, lightweight riders when they go over the age limit to continue to ride their own ponies in classes if they wanted too.
|
|
bugs
Junior Member
Posts: 121
|
Post by bugs on Apr 10, 2018 14:31:26 GMT
That’s a really good suggestion chloesmum. I am amateur/Hp and don’t want to sell ponies as they are with us for life but would love to be able to do SHP/WHp without the age limit like we can at Equifest. I appreciate people’s concerns about removing the age limit though and who would then do the classes.
|
|
nps
Newbie
Posts: 4
|
Post by nps on Apr 10, 2018 14:57:30 GMT
The NPS SHP and SP classes are a perfect way to introduce your novice pony to the show ring with an older experienced rider, and also means you dont have to sell your pony if you are over the age limit for BSPS classes. Our open SP and SHP National Finals have a fantastic prize fund, thanks to the generosity of our sponsors Kellythorpe Stud, so are really worth entering.
|
|
|
Post by The only sport on Apr 10, 2018 19:36:53 GMT
Showing has to be the only equestrian sport where adults are desperate to still ride ponies
|
|
|
Post by Philippa on Apr 10, 2018 20:08:59 GMT
Showing has to be the only equestrian sport where adults are desperate to still ride ponies Not at all, Stroller was only 14.2hh!!!
|
|
|
Post by gillwales on Apr 10, 2018 20:33:40 GMT
Showing is not a sport
|
|
|
Post by Age limits on Apr 11, 2018 5:48:22 GMT
Some good ideas. Especially like the idea of only upper heights and making it amateur. It would then stop as someone said above, all the producers isi it as another class. I don’t think people are desperate to ride ponies, I think people aren’t desperate to ride horses when they have a perfectly good mount at home. I can’t afford to swap and change ponies/nor do I want to. Mine are with me for life. I am amateur/home produced and do other things with mine, hunting/jumping/sponsored rides etc so another horse is a no go for me when mine are perfectly fine for what I do, just because some rules state I should be riding something bigger. I also have a HW 17.2 hunter so it’s not for lack of wanting to ride a horse! NPS yes I have done your SHP classes before it was brilliant, then our local show scrapped the classes and unfortunately I don’t have the money to travel all over the country for other classes!
|
|
|
Post by Age limits on Apr 11, 2018 5:49:34 GMT
*producers using it as another class. Bloody phone making up words!
|
|
|
Post by ponymum on Apr 11, 2018 13:37:22 GMT
Great suggestions from ChloesMum, I bet i could even ride a 15shp (If I get back on with my diet!!)
|
|
|
Post by Intrigued on Apr 12, 2018 7:18:34 GMT
Not that this has anything to do with shp ages. But would be fascinated to know what you would class showing as?
|
|
|
Post by gillwales on Apr 12, 2018 7:29:24 GMT
Not that this has anything to do with shp ages. But would be fascinated to know what you would class showing as? If you had read the whole thread you would have seen the post by a guest saying it is the only sport where adults want to ride ponies. Show-jumping, dressage and eventing are sports, showing is a hobby or activity, would you consider showing at Crufts a sport? Showing is an equine beauty contest
|
|
sarahp
Happy to help
Posts: 9,510
|
Post by sarahp on Apr 12, 2018 7:53:43 GMT
I do agree with you re showing not being a sport, but not with it being an equine beauty contest. Animals should be judged as being fit for purpose rather than eye appeal! Conformation suitable to stay sound and give a good ride, or drive if that's the class, and true to type whether it be hack, hunter cob etc or its breed standard. Even in palomino or coloured classes, colours being entirely visual, they take the conformation into account, and the ride shown in ridden classes.
|
|
|
Post by beauty contest?! on Apr 12, 2018 13:11:25 GMT
Oh yes because its that simple isnt it. Just stand there and look beautiful! From someone who has spent the entire winter riding in the dark after a full day at work come rain/snow/freeze, I find that extremely rude. Spending a fortune going to clinics/lesson. Hiring lots of different arenas to get my horse used to them all and making sure he is totally happy and goes perfectly with a total stranger on his back in a new environment. Lets not dumb down showing.
How many other disciplines is a horse expected to behave perfectly in a ring with lots of distractions, flying motorbikes at one I went too for example. Canter round with a load of strange horses, still expected to be perfect. Then have a total stranger jump on their back and still be perfect?! Couple that with the immense effort that goes into turnout and conditioning and there you have that simple beauty contest.
|
|
sarahp
Happy to help
Posts: 9,510
|
Post by sarahp on Apr 12, 2018 14:12:00 GMT
All it actually asks of the horse/pony - in ridden classes which you're talking about - is the three basic gaits on both reins and good manners which any decent riding horse should be able to do anyway. A far cry from dressage, SJ or eventing as gillwales says. And I've done it, don't think I haven't, and I'm sure gillwales must have done too, but I have no illusions about my own riding ability.
|
|
|
Post by beauty contest?! on Apr 12, 2018 15:08:27 GMT
All it actually asks of the horse/pony - in ridden classes which you're talking about - is the three basic gaits on both reins and good manners which any decent riding horse should be able to do anyway. A far cry from dressage, SJ or eventing as gillwales says. And I've done it, don't think I haven't, and I'm sure gillwales must have done too, but I have no illusions about my own riding ability. Absolutely, the actual ridden part isnt much to ask of a horse and a far cry from training a horse for eventing BUT....to suggest its just a beauty contest is ridiculous. Theres a hell of lot of work that goes into it. If only it was as simple as just turning up and looking pretty. Anyway....back to the OP's original post....
|
|
sarahp
Happy to help
Posts: 9,510
|
Post by sarahp on Apr 12, 2018 15:38:37 GMT
It wasn't me that said it was a beauty contest - read my post above! It's much more than that, but still not a sport. A time consuming hobby, but not a sport. I showed, both in hand and under saddle, because I'm a breeder, to show off what I'd bred but much preferred to do dressage - which IS a sport!
|
|
|
Post by chloesmum on Apr 12, 2018 15:59:47 GMT
Not getting into an argument here but out of interest looked up the definition of sport: amusement; diversion; entertainment; exercise;game;pastime; physical activity; play recreation. Interesting so I can see why some may see showing as 'their' sport. However I think it was a somewhat sarcastic remark that led to the genuine topic going off track! So if showing is your pastime then does it really matter if you prefer to ride ponies to horses? I think many do not just in showing. HM The Queen obviously does!
|
|
|
Post by bigmama on Apr 12, 2018 16:10:27 GMT
My thoughts are that the issue seriously needs addressing before the SP & SHP classes disappear totally.
I would suggest that the age limits should be scrapped for all SP and SHP classes except for ponies 13hds and under and for Junior Show Pony and Junior SHP classes to be introduced for children riding SP/SHP exceeding 13hds.
|
|
|
Post by Philippa on Apr 12, 2018 16:23:52 GMT
My thoughts are that the issue seriously needs addressing before the SP & SHP classes disappear totally.
I would suggest that the age limits should be scrapped for all SP and SHP classes except for ponies 13hds and under and for Junior Show Pony and Junior SHP classes to be introduced for children riding SP/SHP exceeding 13hds. Extremely sensible BM.
|
|
|
Post by bigmama on Apr 12, 2018 18:10:33 GMT
My thoughts are that the issue seriously needs addressing before the SP & SHP classes disappear totally.
I would suggest that the age limits should be scrapped for all SP and SHP classes except for ponies 13hds and under and for Junior Show Pony and Junior SHP classes to be introduced for children riding SP/SHP exceeding 13hds. Extremely sensible BM. Aww thanks, Philippa ... the Junior rider system seems to be working well for the M&Ms so no reason why it shouldn't work for the SPs & SHPs
|
|
sarahp
Happy to help
Posts: 9,510
|
Post by sarahp on Apr 12, 2018 18:48:33 GMT
Not into plaiteds but my only thought is the relationship with the big Weight Debate - on the whole they would be up to less rider weight than an M&M the same height, so suitable for fewer adults than natives. Maybe that doesn't affect the general debate anyway.
|
|
|
Post by chloesmum on Apr 13, 2018 7:45:53 GMT
Whilst in general I would be in favour of relaxing age limits for the 143cm and above I don't think you would see a big rise in numbers in the ring. This decline has been happening over many years and like all things would take a long time to reverse (if ever). I know people who are desperate to find a quality 143/153cm SHP and are finding it impossible. Why? Well lots of reasons I guess starting with the rise of popularity of the ridden natives over the last 10 years saw many people buying M&Ms and coming out of the plaited classes. Consequently many long standing reputable breeders cut back or gave up as they found it not viable to breed in a declining market. I am not a breeder but several have said the cost of breeding and keeping for 3 years they were just not getting their money back, just look at the numbers forward in in-hand youngstock classes and you can predict there will be very few ponies available for ridden classes. The 122 and 133cm SHP to a certain extent hold their own as many are Sec B ponies but the larger heights are part bred. This situation was predicted by many several years ago and I think they were right. A real shame in my opinion of course there are some beautiful ponies out there but the numbers are very reduced. Good ponies have always been hard to find but in our day in 143cm SHP there would on average be between 20 - 30 in a class and I would say most of these would today be of HOYS standard. Now if you are lucky you might hit double figures in the ring. I really hope some of the younger breeders look to the future so we do not lose the true to type SHP and just end up with a general Riding Pony type, to support them the would be purchasers have to also be realistic about how much it costs to breed and keep youngsters. Like everything in life today - market forces rule I am afraid.
|
|
|
Post by age limit on Apr 13, 2018 8:41:14 GMT
My thoughts are that the issue seriously needs addressing before the SP & SHP classes disappear totally.
I would suggest that the age limits should be scrapped for all SP and SHP classes except for ponies 13hds and under and for Junior Show Pony and Junior SHP classes to be introduced for children riding SP/SHP exceeding 13hds. this is a super idea! I must admit after doing a couple of NPS SHP classes I was also slightly put off as my pony is very much a leg in each corner, substantial type. I couldnt compete with the show ponies in plain browbands which seems to be where its heading! I know its supposed to be an enjoyable day out and I do try to remeber that but when you know your going to stand at the bottom of the line to something that although very nice, wouldnt make one field without breaking a leg on an actual days hunting, it gets very disheartening.
|
|
sarahp
Happy to help
Posts: 9,510
|
Post by sarahp on Apr 13, 2018 9:38:52 GMT
Just to throw another thought into the mix - we are seeing the rise of the graded sport/performance pony bred to perform at the top end of the disciplines, does this alter the SHP situation I wonder?
|
|
|
Post by CarolineNelson on Apr 13, 2018 10:33:25 GMT
Naturally, I am being extremely cautious about what I write here - and how it is written. If it is interpreted in a different way to my intention then I can only apologise in advance. So . . . Cat amongst pigeons here, but . . . I feel it would be a very retrograde step to relax or remove the age from SHP classes. Or Show Pony classes. The lighter boned 'SHP-with-a-plain-browband-and-a-tweed-jacket' is NOT a TRUE Show HUNTER Pony which should be a scaled down version of a perfect Middleweight. It is important that children of the correct age ride against other children. Look at the hue & cry early last season when a very talented young jockey occasionally competed in Hunter classes or rode in an occasional Championship. . . . . Oh dear, he might beat other Adults! You can't win, whatever way this is looked at. if that was considered 'wrong' then adults in show 'pony' classes would surely also be 'wrong'.
The BSPS commenced as a CHILDREN's Society - initially a splinter from the Breeding and welfare aspects of the NPS, the 'umbrella' Society for all British ponies. . And, in my humble opinion it (the BSPS) should be allowed to stay that way.
There is, after all, the 'new' Part-Bred' classification with its final at HOYS, open to riders of any age (except for stallions, where the minimum rider age is 14). Most ponies are correctly registered and most ponies can prove to be 'part-bred'. Most (Breed) Societies hold 'part-bred' classes.
Additionally, the NPS have the very helpful open (rider) aged section.
I'm not seeking a tin hat. I have followed this thread since its inception and felt that an opposite view should be allowed to be heard, to put a balance on the discussion and, things into perspective.
|
|