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Post by whocares on May 24, 2009 15:04:15 GMT
The entries in the WHP at Devon illustrate what a complete farce RI qualification has become. 3 in the 133s,2 in the 143s(both already qualified)3 in the Intermediates. If you are prepared to travel the country qualification is in the bag. Perhaps the BSPS should limit entries like BSJA 2nd rounds or limit qualification to premier shows and thus ensure Hickstead has some credibility. This year it will surely have very little. Meanwhile it is a great shame for Devon which is such a lovely show and generally well supported.
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Post by nativeponies on May 24, 2009 15:26:52 GMT
think im slightly off topic but i think that once qualified you shouldnt be able to enter the class on the same pony/horse..by end of season top 3 usually qualified leaving no chance for others if qualification goes no lower than 3rd
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apple123 not logged in
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Post by apple123 not logged in on May 24, 2009 17:53:43 GMT
I agree with that nativeponies - lot of people go round blocking others from getting qualified even when they deserve to be there! Not talking about me as not done RI qual for ages but see the same names out and about every week.
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Post by nativeponies on May 24, 2009 18:08:48 GMT
thats what i mean apple123, by end of the season decent ponies are being denied their places in the finals, hoys too. wish people would be decent enough not to do it, i myself cant see the point in entering the qualifying classes once qualified when there are so many other classes to do, just seems silly to me, or is that the whole point..to stop anymore decent ponies going through?? is funny cause we were talking about this just this morning!
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Post by hollycane on May 24, 2009 18:21:50 GMT
It seems like ponies may be suffering from the same problem horses have been for some time. More concerning is if entries are continuously very low what qualifies may actually be a very poor example of type, conformation etc. Other competitors see what qualified at a certain show without attending and slag off the judges as they do not realise there were only 3 in the class. The person that qualified may have a nice animal that they love but one that will be last at RI. They have paid a fortune to be there and have their hopes dashed. There have been few hack classes this year with more than 5 forward. Windsor a case in point. I have seen pros on some very unfortunate beasts deliberately entered in the hope they may qualify and further block anyone else qualifying. These last 3 weeks are an exceptionally busy time for those with a professional interest in qualifying and I hate to think of the number of miles some poor animals have had to travel. Results are very telling. I admit I have not had the courage to withold qualification yet. To be fair this year so far I have not thought I needed to but with judges being slapped hard for almost any perceived misdemeanour these days, it's perhaps not politically correct anyway.
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Post by nativeponies on May 24, 2009 18:29:11 GMT
;D we have a nice animal that we love and would be totally honoured to be given the chance to come last at rihs!! i do believe people should give others a fair chance i know i would! maybe im too nice!
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Post by tafsmum on May 24, 2009 18:34:51 GMT
It would be nice if the large breed heritage qualifiers were a little smaller, 14 in class has been the smallest so far.
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Post by nativeponies on May 24, 2009 18:40:38 GMT
i agree and i dont envy the judges who have to chose in such large classes, 30? i mean where do you start? i do think entries should have a cut off point somewhere and be on a first come first served basis???
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Post by guest0 on May 24, 2009 18:43:47 GMT
so what happens to competitors who have pre entered shows that have a closing date do they not go because they have qualified early and loose the money they have paid out or would it make sense to go because you have already paid for it?
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Post by nativeponies on May 24, 2009 18:48:46 GMT
i get your point guest so maybe the solution then would be to pass the qualification further down the line,but it can only go so far, i would be prepared to lose 20 or 30 quid if i had qualified as i feel it'd be doing the right thing?? its not the end of the world losing a little money and replacing it with feeling honest and decent? imo anyway!
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Post by guesto on May 24, 2009 18:57:34 GMT
Totally understand that native ponies we qualified quite early but had pre entered 4 which is alot more that 20-30 pounds so will prob do a couple just to get out but theres no guarentee that we will be placed in the top 3 anytime we go out certainly wouldnt be going in a class to block anyone else getting the ticket why would anyone do that once they had qualified
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Post by hunter on May 24, 2009 19:03:52 GMT
firstly whats wrong with a bit of competition ?Secondly no i dont think the qualification should go down lower other wise you are just watering down the quality of the animals qualifying ,this is THE royal international we are talking about !!!
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Post by idoshowing on May 24, 2009 19:06:32 GMT
Qualification goes down to 5th - what about whp how are trying to get on the English/Welsh/Scottish/Irish teams? The need to keep doing a few more qualifiers to get form & results if they want to be considered.
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Post by haylage on May 24, 2009 19:14:00 GMT
Hey, its not just RIHs qualifiers that this happens in, WPCS shows offering medals are just as bad, the amount of medal winners that turn up makes me laugh, the get champion, cannot accept the medal, so it passes to reserve, if reserve has a medal then no medal awarded. Can I just add that its in the present year that matters, if they have won a medal in previous years them they can win one again in the current year, but I know of three cases this year, where they have gone champion with a medal winner in reserve so no medal awarded.
Hope thats clear!!!!!!
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Post by nativeponies on May 24, 2009 19:16:41 GMT
as clear as anything to do with showing ever will be!! ;D
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chaos
Junior Member
Posts: 67
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Post by chaos on May 24, 2009 19:17:55 GMT
I have to say that in the last 3 or 4 years I have never heard of a situation where nobody has qualified in a WHP class because the top 5 already have. I am sure the only situation recently that even came close to this was in 2006 when Hetherington Cardi's Replica was 5th in the 13hh whp at Lincoln and qual HOYS (feel free to tell me if this is wrong). And what about those that enjoy jumping a big track? (It is a sport we are supposed to enjoy after all!) lets face it, you more or less only get a decent track at a qualifier. If you've got a good pony, for god's sake use it when its working!
What is a problem however is the distribution of pony qualifiers. I understand that people in areas such as devon shouldn't have to travel miles to go to one, but it seems that there are several qualifiers in certain areas where there is no demand for one. And where there is demand, there simply aren't enough!
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sg
Full Member
Posts: 417
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Post by sg on May 24, 2009 19:27:11 GMT
I totally agree; qualificication being passed down to 5th is appropriate, if decent ponies are being blocked then it is a shame but you have to draw the line somewhere. I also agree that people should conitunue campaigning their ponies once qualified - showing is not just about that golden ticket, and shows need the revenue.
BSPA for one need to sort things out - it is ridiculously easy to qualify for RIHS with a coloured and it's decreasing the quality of classes
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Post by serendipity on May 24, 2009 19:30:34 GMT
Well I have watched at least 6 M&M Worker RI qualifiers this year and I have never seen one class where no-one qualified and the qualification only goes down to third place. I have absolutely no argument with anyone doing as many qualifiers as they want to if they are willing to pay the enormous entry fees. The courses are usually really demanding and interesting and there is no other way of getting the experience before RI. Its also great competition and fun to do, especially if the qualifiers are at big shows.
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Post by bundle on May 24, 2009 19:53:22 GMT
think im slightly off topic but i think that once qualified you shouldnt be able to enter the class on the same pony/horse..by end of season top 3 usually qualified leaving no chance for others if qualification goes no lower than 3rd Feeling a bit uneasy now - we have just won our second RI qualifier but to be fair we have kept our horse at considerable expense in order to do shows! If we went to non-qualifying classes now, we would be panned on this very website for "pot-hunting!" - so what do we do, just stay at home?
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Post by whocares on May 24, 2009 20:23:17 GMT
Having started this thread the point I was making was that the entries are so derisory in the plaited whps that they don't merit a place at the RIHS. If you are prepared to travel 100+ miles you will get your ticket. I imagine the entries at 13B today will confirm my point.
The MandMs have been far more competitive and qualification should go further down the line.The BSPS should have a serious re think about the plaiteds.
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Post by hs on May 24, 2009 20:40:32 GMT
I think a lot is about fashion - M&M are really big business now - It is not unheard of to have 30 in some of the large M&M classes. the show pony classes appear to be much less popular - possibly the age limits meaning that only kids can ride the ponies makes it harder to find jockeys - kids keen on jumping may prefer to do BSJA rather than WHP?
If a horse or pony that would not normally have been of the standard required qualifies for RI it does not detract from the quality at the final as presumably some people of a high standard would also have qualified.
Some classes are always going to be more popular than others due to trends and fashion and I imagine it is not always easy to predict which classes are going to be popular or not and change regulations to reflect that. changes in regulations often involve balloting of members of societies.
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Post by legalchick on May 24, 2009 20:47:51 GMT
I think another problem - as far as horse classes go, is that there ar very few affiliated classes which arent also RIHS or HOYS qualifiers.
Therefore for people like me who have qualified, but need the miles and practice on a new animal, if we dont enter more qualifying classes, we dont get to compete at affiliated shows.
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Post by bundle on May 25, 2009 5:55:23 GMT
Some shows do get more entries than others, that is for sure but one reason is that there are so many more WHP's in the north of the country. Speaking only about IWHs - there were 8 entered at Devon but only three turned up to jump, 2 of which had already qualified. 7 jumped at 13b and the second qualified. I don't really want to travel north for qualifiers and in fact we qualified at our "local show" in Newbury. There are very few southern qualifiers for HOYS on the other hand so that is when we will have to venture north but what would be a better system? Points? So I have to hammer my horse around the shows to gain the required number of points. I cannot see a better way at the moment and those who qualify who aren't up to the job when they get there find out pretty quickly! Usually on the course walk.
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Post by beenthere on May 25, 2009 7:24:43 GMT
think im slightly off topic but i think that once qualified you shouldnt be able to enter the class on the same pony/horse..by end of season top 3 usually qualified leaving no chance for others if qualification goes no lower than 3rd Feeling a bit uneasy now - we have just won our second RI qualifier but to be fair we have kept our horse at considerable expense in order to do shows! If we went to non-qualifying classes now, we would be panned on this very website for "pot-hunting!" - so what do we do, just stay at home? Fear Not we have won 4 RIHS quals and a HOYS and have never travelled more than just over an hour away! Regardless the competitors enjoy what they do and need form for the teams and enjoy jumping the tracks! The RIHS quals provide better tracks to practice over. We opted not to go today as it is 2 hours away and reading the reports of being towed on and off the showground at warren farm put us off! Well done Daisy at Devon.
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Post by shelleyj on May 25, 2009 7:27:55 GMT
whp competitors seem to really enjoy what they do! they even liked the lake at the area 29 course yesterday....
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Post by tuppence on May 25, 2009 8:00:36 GMT
I have seen pros on some very unfortunate beasts deliberately entered in the hope they may qualify and further block anyone else qualifying. Is that really what they are doing? I thought they sometimes rode less than good horses because they were paid to do it!
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Post by bundle on May 25, 2009 8:01:53 GMT
Thank you beenthere - we only do probably 12 shows a year now so choose what we want to do regardless of whether it is a qualifier or not. As it happens most of the shows we want to go to are but then they usually have the best courses.
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Post by agent on May 25, 2009 10:01:16 GMT
think im slightly off topic but i think that once qualified you shouldnt be able to enter the class on the same pony/horse..by end of season top 3 usually qualified leaving no chance for others if qualification goes no lower than 3rd Feeling a bit uneasy now - we have just won our second RI qualifier but to be fair we have kept our horse at considerable expense in order to do shows! If we went to non-qualifying classes now, we would be panned on this very website for "pot-hunting!" - so what do we do, just stay at home? I agree with you bundle (though we have not won 2 qualifiers!) The tracks at shows that are not qualifiers are not a good preparation for the bigger shows coming up. It appears that you are d**ned if you do and d**ned if you dont. The problem with this particular weekend is that there are too many qualifiers and so the numbers forward are bound to be smaller than some other shows. I would also just like to point out that the 133 winner and 153 pony that qualified are pretty consistent in their jumping and I would think that neither will find the course at hickstead too much for them. The fact that no-one qualified in the 143 class shows that the course was good enough that a pony with not enough ability/experience, got through. The intermediate winner was contesting its first intermediate qualifier and WON because of its jumping ability. There are other shows around that have bigger entries but tiny courses - some of those qualifiers may get a bit of a shock!
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Post by agent on May 25, 2009 10:07:53 GMT
The entries in the WHP at Devon illustrate what a complete farce RI qualification has become. 3 in the 133s,2 in the 143s(both already qualified)3 in the Intermediates. If you are prepared to travel the country qualification is in the bag. Perhaps the BSPS should limit entries like BSJA 2nd rounds or limit qualification to premier shows and thus ensure Hickstead has some credibility. This year it will surely have very little. Meanwhile it is a great shame for Devon which is such a lovely show and generally well supported. Whocares, I don't know if you were there, but there were more forward in the first 2 classes than you stated - and certainly more entries - even if they were not forward. The course ensured that those were the numbers placed!
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Post by whocares on May 25, 2009 16:02:57 GMT
The RIHS is a prestigious show and a national championship. It is extremely unusual to secure entry to a prestigious national championship from a qualifying competition where the participants can be counted on one hand. I suggested a re-think by the BSPS. It is a showing society and perhaps now(like a few years ago) the heights of the fences should be lowered or the number of qualifiers should be reduced and run at a few premier shows.This might increase the number of quality non qualifiers available and also increase numbers for show such as Devon who could attract local riders. Lets not forget WHP classes are showing classes. The qualifying jumping ponies at the RIHS start at 1.20.
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