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Post by 0ldmare on Nov 10, 2009 22:58:45 GMT
Sorry, its my day for posting questions lol. My 'horse of a lifetime' was bred by this stud - we are talking a good few years ago now! There was also a much more famous show hack called Piran Pica back in the 80's. Just wondered if anyone knew what happened to the stud, presumably they closed down? My mare was by Piran Fair Cop who traced his lineage back to the great Bwlch Valentino and the dam was a mare called St Lawrence Lilactyme. Adored that mare and would love another with similar breeding Thanks....and promise that's the last question of the day  |
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Post by boreatton on Nov 11, 2009 8:28:35 GMT
Now I'm having a flash back, I rode a pony for the late Pat Maynard Chestnut 14hh which had been shown previously as a 14.2 by hayley hankey, my memory is rubbish other than I know his name was sid at home. I think he was Piran Fair Cop, I didn't know he had been used a stallion previously or have I got the name wrong. If it is the same one there are rather a lot of funny stories about him - he was an absolute swine, hence me getting the ride!, then years later a lady appeared on our yard wanting livery having bought the future superstar that a load of people had not found blah blah blah when she told mum what he was called she burst out laughing and told her good luck and proceeded to tell her the ponies history, funny enough he didn't come for livery and she didnt appear in the show ring locally taking us all by storm!!!!
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Post by 0ldmare on Nov 11, 2009 8:46:17 GMT
Oh Boratton, how funny, I bet he was the sire - she was a chestnut mare lol. Just goes to show that they don't always inherit the same character, although she was a sharp and spooky mare thee wasn't an ounce of malice. Just a little too bright eyed and bushy tailed lol Would love to hear more about him and why he was a swine, if you can recall any stories. Did he ever go in the ring with you? Sounds like mine was a 'one off' breeding. I tried to breed from her but she wouldn't get in foal. Perhaps its a good job, might have had a throw back to Dad lol |
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Post by overatdaknee on Nov 11, 2009 9:11:57 GMT
Remember Piran John Halifax ridden by Cathryn Cooper, I have some pix somewhere of him. La Lee-Taylor (now Angela Lance) had an amazing 14hh WHP called Piran Gaybird.
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Post by roseview on Nov 11, 2009 9:27:48 GMT
The Piran Stud is still in existence and is still in Cornwall. These days it is owned by the daughter as both Jean and Alan Turner passed away. When the pony stud was dispersed on divorce Jean and her daughter kept one pony, and I had her first foal. They then moved across to Welsh pones which I helped them chose and the ponies lived with me and I showed them.
With regards to the ponies they previously bred, there aren't many left. There was another stud dispersal sale in September where many of the last ponies of Piran breeding were sold. Those ponies went back to Lilac Time.
There is a grandson of Lilac Time who is standing at stud in Shropshire and she was also the dam of Benedict of Piran who went to Germany and was renamed as Brillant. Brillant is the sire of a popular dressage stallion in this country, Bernwode Brokat.
Lilac Time was purchased from the stud by a friend of mine and she is always willing to talk to people interested in that bloodline. She bred Gwelanmor Fortune who bred Gwelanmor Candytuft, a lovely mare who was for sale for the last 12 months but is now sold. Contact me for further info on contacting this lady who will know what stock is around.
Lilac was then sold to my neighbours at Trewithian Stud and I used to help show her and her foals. She was PTS a few years ago.
Piran Fair Cop was out of Camilla who was only PTS earlier this year aged mid 30's. She was the mare who bred all the stock at the stud down here which was disbanded in September. One of her daughters went to a stud in Hampshire and others are now mainly spread around Cornwall.
Who did you have? There was Flora Dora and another that I can think of.
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Post by brindlerainbow on Nov 11, 2009 9:38:37 GMT
Roseview do you have any idea where the lovely bay stallion from the dispersal sale in September went. I think he was a Trelawn one?
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Post by goldenwood on Nov 11, 2009 9:41:33 GMT
Now I'm having a flash back, I rode a pony for the late Pat Maynard Chestnut 14hh which had been shown previously as a 14.2 by hayley hankey, my memory is rubbish other than I know his name was sid at home. I think he was Piran Fair Cop, I didn't know he had been used a stallion previously or have I got the name wrong. If it is the same one there are rather a lot of funny stories about him - he was an absolute swine, hence me getting the ride!, then years later a lady appeared on our yard wanting livery having bought the future superstar that a load of people had not found blah blah blah when she told mum what he was called she burst out laughing and told her good luck and proceeded to tell her the ponies history, funny enough he didn't come for livery and she didnt appear in the show ring locally taking us all by storm!!!! was the pony you rode for the late pat maynard which was called sid,was he definately a piran pony and not a rosevean pony |
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Post by 0ldmare on Nov 11, 2009 10:03:59 GMT
Roseview, thanks so much for all the information! Thats amazing and I would love to talk to your friend if she wouldnt mind - maybe she will know of more descendents of Lilac Time, or just have a photo of her - I have never seen her. (Wish I had known about Candyturft and also the stud dispersal, I would hav been there like a shot!  ). My mare was called Piran Nanette, a 15hh chestnut mare. She was adorable, loved people and was just a huge character. I owned ber for something like 15 years until she suddenly died of liver failure at the rather devastatingly young age of 22. I think Fair Cop was only a 3 year old when he was put to Lilac Time. Perhaps after that (judging by the post above) they decided he hadnt the temperment to be a stallion lol |
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Post by roseview on Nov 11, 2009 10:25:30 GMT
The Trelawn stallion was bought back in by Mrs Fox. I believe she also bought some of the other ponies as well. I'm not quite sure what will happen as the property was sold last weekend and they have had to move out. Oldmare, I will check with my friend that I can pass on her number to you as she is ex-directory. I've probably got some photos of Lilac somewhere but would have to trawl through a pile to have a look. I'll try to do that at some stage for you. I was very tempted myself to buy Candytuft!! www.horsequest.co.uk/adhome7849.htm will take you to Candytuft |
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Post by 0ldmare on Nov 11, 2009 10:46:55 GMT
Thank you roseview that would be great and would love to see a photo if you do have time - Candytuft looks a lovely pony.
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Post by sammycob on Nov 11, 2009 13:22:17 GMT
Well after reading this post with a little smile on my face I just had to reply ;D We actually bought Piran Fair Cop (Sweeney was his stable name then - he was named after Dennis Waterman cos as a foal he ended up in the swimming pool, hence Waterman!!) from the Piran Stud as a just gelded 3 year old to show as a 14.2 pony. I did quite a few novice classes with him, some of which he won but you're all right about him, he was a swine - hence we ended up calling him Swiney instead of Sweeney  If I remember rightly Pat Haigh Maynard bought him off us, think he was a 5 year old then |
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Post by 0ldmare on Nov 11, 2009 13:40:01 GMT
Oh how funny. Sounds like he is remembered by all as aa total little toad of a horse. How big was he, do you remember? His daughter Piran Nanette, stable name Netty, had a huge sense of humour. I remember doing a hack class and there was SJ going on in the ring next door and something noisy on the next/long side. For some unfathomable reason Netty decided that she would copy the show jumpers so every time they took off over a jump she did this huge mad bound in the air. Then we got the scary bit and took off like rocket, regained control on the next short side and then cantered daintily past the judge. Only to repeat the exercise next time round. I had tears running down my face I was laughing so much. Dont remember if we got placed but I do remember doing my show in one corner of the ring only |
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Post by sammycob on Nov 11, 2009 16:14:01 GMT
Hehehe Oldmare, sound like his daughter was just like him then.................... always remember at one show he was going round like he'd lost the will to live then suddenly he was like a man possessed tail up in the air & trotting like a hackney, he used to drive me nuts, think he still thought he was a stallion & a naughty one at that. He was definitely no bigger than 14hds & quite petite so was never going to stand up with the big boys in 14.2 classes, but hell he could move when he settled & went. Was a grumpy old sod in the stable though |
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Post by flyingchange on Nov 11, 2009 19:24:01 GMT
We used to own Piran sweet charity - brown mare 13.2h and daughter of HOYS pony Piran Tamarisk. We bought her from the stud. She was a bit of a character! I also rode Piran Happy Days 14.2 on a few occasions for Mrs Rusden here in Cornwall.
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Post by janeh on Nov 11, 2009 20:13:37 GMT
Read this with interest as I was head girl at St Lawrence Stud and produced several Piran ponies when I set up on my own.
ST LAWRENCE LILACTYME by Arthur Sullivan HIS sup ch TB.... dam Downland Candy tuft a lovely Welshx Arab (Blue Domino)
Lilac was 15.00 hh and as there were no SHP's back then was put straight in foal. I had her first foal by Piran John Halifax...he was a stunner sadly PTS after breaking his leg in the field. Next foal was Benedict of Piran bought by the P stud with his mum. Piran JH was then gelded and sold to Davina for the Coopers. Benedict was sold as an entire 3yo to Germany at the NPS Summer Show. He became the top pony performance sire , with approx 35 graded sons. He was advanced dressage and also show jumped. Name changed to Brillant, if you google him there are photos etc.
Downland Candytuft had many foals by A Sullivan and they were all the same lovely stamp and temperament. Brillant's son standing in UK is called Bernwode Brokat, he has the lovely D Candytuft outlook and I have a dressage mare in foal to him. B Brokat has won the Sports Pony award this year.
I also had P Gaybird, I have never had a pony that could jump like her !! After La Lee -Taylor outgrew her she was sold to Italy on the pony SJ team. She was by St Lawrence Royal Gift, who was also the sire of famous WHP Cuckoo.
I have photos of many of these, but mostly slides not prints.
I was very sorry when P John Halifax was gelded as P Larkspur that I had produced as a 12.2 hh ,had 2 Wembley winners by him.It was quite fashionable to geld ponies late to go under saddle...Smalland Otto was another pony stallion, who came to me to produce after Andy Croft, first brought him out under saddle.
Lilac also had a colt by P John Halifax called Piran Cinders. He was lovely and I would have bought him when the stud sold up if I had a rider. Flora Dora was/is with Val Pilgrim.
Gwelanmor Candytuft has just been sold to a family in Devon and she is coming to my showing clinic at Tall Trees on Saturday !
P Fair Cop was another gelded after a few foals, he comes from the Arden Domino mare line. P Meteor was another stallion and can't remember what happened to him. P Little John also .
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Post by cabbylushtey on Nov 11, 2009 20:22:53 GMT
This may have been discussed on here before but has anyone found the Valentino blood lines to be a bit quirky? About 50 years ago my parents bought a mare by him at Hay on Wye and she was certainly difficult, used to sit down in the show ring. She had two fillies who weren't two bad and her two colt foals were fine. About 20 years ago I bought a mare by him who was in foal to Kelsborough Brigardier. She had come from the Chirk stud having been used as a brood mare as she was too hot to ride. She produced 3 filly foals all of whom had their problems and 2 colts that were fine. She retired from breeding and died a couple of years ago ,probably the last of his daughters.
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Post by 0ldmare on Nov 11, 2009 21:40:35 GMT
Janeh, thank you for posting! And thank you everyone I can't believe I have found so many people who know the lineage so well. Sounds like there were some 'shared characteristics' shall we say. On the plus side Netty was a mesmerising mover, she just floated (when she felt like it, or could look like a crabby donkey if she didnt) and was a grumpy old bat in the stable too - although it was all show, she would never dream of actually doing anything she was just very food obsessed lol |
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Post by smallbutmighty on Nov 11, 2009 22:30:14 GMT
I remeber a liver chestnut show pony (14.2hh?) called Piran Jessie Brown as well. Think the Baldwins had him/her?
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Post by overatdaknee on Nov 11, 2009 22:41:09 GMT
Yes the Baldwins had that pony- want to say mare but not sure either! Piran Sweet Honesty was another corker!
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hacks
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Post by hacks on Nov 11, 2009 22:49:47 GMT
when you talk about lilac time do you mean HALEBANK LILAC TIME ?
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Post by pumpkinpie on Nov 11, 2009 23:49:48 GMT
Gosh this is a blast from the past! I was lucky enough to be gifted the piran pony had written stud book. Jean and Edwina were family friends for years.
I can copy any info if needed. They bred an awful lot of very nice ponies.
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Post by teddydog on Nov 12, 2009 7:37:09 GMT
What happened to P Little John?
I live in the west country and rem these ponies well. Such lovely stamps. What i call proper ponies with limb and could move using the shoulder instead of this horrid tied in effort today!!!!!
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Post by mandmgirl0164 on Nov 12, 2009 14:56:43 GMT
I think the Sandison girls (Sandbourne Stud), may have ridden Piran Sweet Honesty and Piran Sweet Rosemary...
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Post by brindlerainbow on Nov 12, 2009 16:38:46 GMT
Yes the Sandisons did have Piran Sweet Honesty remember seeing her at HOYS back in the 80's
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josie
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Post by josie on Nov 12, 2009 17:26:47 GMT
Flora Dora is the dam of both of my horses. Last time we heard she was still with Marilyn & Tony Pilgrim of the Sporting Horse Stud.
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Post by roseview on Nov 12, 2009 18:13:05 GMT
I remember Marilyn saying that she had Flora Dora, now you come to mention it.
St Lawrence Lilactyme was a 14.2hh and was shown in 14.2 BSPS ridden classes one season, when produced by Sue Rowe.
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Post by Artistic on Nov 12, 2009 18:25:20 GMT
Yes the Sandisons did have Piran Sweet Honesty remember seeing her at HOYS back in the 80's Yes, that's right. I worked for them v briefly as a temp, having been in a really top class yard of classically produced eventers, show horses, dressage horses, stallions etc,. I remember Sweet Honesty as being the most darling pony you could wish to meet. But I can honestly say I couldn't believe my ears on the very first day when I was told how I was to tack her up ready to be lunged - it went against everything I had ever been taught and almost 30 years later I still find myself puzzling over it when I am tacking ours up at home sometimes... |
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Post by robertparkerjones on Nov 13, 2009 19:26:03 GMT
The Baldwins had Piran Jessie Brown, think she was a full sister to Piran John Halifax. A friend, Elaine produced ponies for the 'Shucks' in the Midlands and they owned John Halifax. They also had Keston Brown Sugar, Chinook Arran and Rosevale Serenity. All lovely ponies! We were producing Gunnerby Aalborg Elegant, Cherrington Abba and Perryditch Temerity at the same time just down the road!!!
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Post by brindlerainbow on Nov 13, 2009 20:15:45 GMT
lovely memories robertparkerjones!! Gunnerby Aalborg Elegant was 1 of my favourite ponies remember seeing her go down the spotlight such a lovely mover
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Post by boreatton on Nov 14, 2009 22:35:46 GMT
Piran Fair Cop was 14hh and was owned by Pat and had done rather well I think with Hayley Hankey as a 14.2sp (I think he won the Royal Welsh and Hayley was only a diddy dot back then) Don't know what happened but I think he went a little astray and ended up back with Pat to sell on. I only showed him for Pat once at a show at Weston Park. I rode for pat for 3 seasons. The funny story was that he couldn't be trusted to be sensible and my mum found pat hiding behind an oak tree claiming to have nothing to do with us. Fortunately only 1 in the class, qualified and he was quickly sold. The judge (either John Nash or Jack Edge can't remember which it is over 20 yrs ago) asked me why my connections always found me 14hh chestnut ejits, as the pony I had had previous to riding for Pat was Walton Lucifer, also 14hh and also called Sid who was as hot as h... but boy he could lengthen in gallop.
The Rosevean pony - assume you mean Rosevean Bell Boy - yes guilty for that one too!!!! Came from Jayne Hankey, Pat had owned him on off several times, he was in his teens by the time I got him, Pat knew him and how to produce him inside out. The first time I showed him he took off with me in trot, didn't change into canter, literally took off with me in trot!!!! However plenty of turn out time and an interesting afternoon in the field with a very undescrible bit and lots of reward and you could ride him on one finger in a snaffle. We won nearly everything in 15hh SHP that season he was fab.
His replacement was Arche Prince twice HOYS Winner as a hack and now to me for 15hh SHP, he was rather quirky too and I can remember David Tatlow his former producer telling me to stick with it and Malcom Jackson asking me if it was too much oats as we presented stripped in a HOYS qualifier with Archie not sure if he was going to rear or buck next.
Riding for Pat was an amazing experience, I had three fabulous seasons riding ponies and going to shows that my own parents could not afford. My crowing moment was with pats tuition winning both under 18 and under 25 side saddle rider of the year at the BSPS Champs in the same year.
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