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Post by magsbypickles on May 5, 2010 17:49:55 GMT
Hi can anyone give me any information on the swales bit?, my friend has tried a horse in one , it looked very strong . Any info appreciated .
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Milliesmum
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Post by Milliesmum on May 5, 2010 18:08:06 GMT
The swales eliminates the poll pressure. The rings which are attached to the bridle and the top rein are 'floating', i.e. not fixed to the bit at all. The curb rein cannot bring about any poll pressure as the bit just rotates in the mouth without being attached to the bridle. They do tend to be frowned upon but some horses do go happily in them, in the right hands.
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horseblackjack
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why be sane in a mad world when everones mad in it anyway !
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Post by horseblackjack on May 5, 2010 19:37:51 GMT
very severe bit !!!
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Post by magsbypickles on May 6, 2010 18:29:07 GMT
Just been reliably informed that BSPS have banned the swales bit due to the severity of it!
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Post by saz88 on May 6, 2010 20:38:42 GMT
Just been reliably informed that BSPS have banned the swales bit due to the severity of it! Really, since when? Saw several with them in this week end past!
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sg
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Post by sg on May 7, 2010 7:50:43 GMT
Abou time too if they have!
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Post by hollycane on May 7, 2010 20:38:57 GMT
SHBGB have effectively banned it. It's a polo bit which is a real jawbreaker. IMO vile. If I'm judging you and you have one in I will always tell you to try something else. The horse will back off it and it's head will go lower and lower as it's designed to be worn with side reins for polo. Don't even consider it. Sit down, use your legs before your hand and lift the horses shoulders to bring him off his forehand. If you have a horse that is dead in the mouth consider a high port pelham.
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Post by sageandonion on May 8, 2010 15:20:55 GMT
That bit sounds awful. Why would anyone use it in a showing class? Actually could someone explain to me why you would use anything other than an ordinary snaffle (and I don't include the dreaded wilkies in the snaffle group) or a double bridle for advanced horses or ponies. At the risk of sounding rude (and I am not wishing to be rude) it does seem a lot of people don't actually school their horses and ponies.
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Post by armada on May 8, 2010 18:28:32 GMT
The horse will back off it and it's head will go lower and lower as it's designed to be worn with side reins for polo. Think you mean draw reins HC, but yes thats how a polo pony should go, long and low with very little contact on the mouth. I have never personally felt the need for any sort of severe bit in the show ring (polo is another story) and if ever felt there was a need for one, attended to my schooling instead.
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Post by cayo on May 9, 2010 5:45:26 GMT
we use one and it suits our mare fine she is very light and never backs off she also goes well in a snaffle but needs a flash which is a no no in showing sorry but i have to disagree any bit is severe in the wrong hands not just a swales we have tried all sorts of bits and this suits ours best ,we have tried several in them and some they suit some they dont as with any bit ,i prefer them to say a sam marsh but these bits are for good rider with excellent hands not a quick fix .
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Post by sageandonion on May 9, 2010 8:58:46 GMT
I am trying to visualise this bits action so cayo do you use it as a horse doesn't open its mouth with it?
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Post by saz88 on May 11, 2010 19:24:26 GMT
The bottom rein encourages the curb chain to put pressure on the back of the mouth, this in turn gets the ponys head down and gives the brakes, the more the pony resists or the stronger the hands, the more the pony will give in so to speak - they nick name it The Elephant Stopper.....and they dont say that for nothing!! Hate it!
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Post by loulou25 on May 11, 2010 20:31:46 GMT
I think they look fantastic! However its not about that what so ever, my mare will only go in a snaffle so thats what shes shown in - simple as!
These seem to have become very popular in Cob and Hunter classes of recent and I do think they look the part, they are very smart looking! But I think any harsh bit used in the wrong hands can cause a lot of damage!
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Post by showingforfun on May 11, 2010 21:03:49 GMT
Had heard that the BSPS had banned this bit. Is this correct?
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Post by sghorse on May 12, 2010 9:35:25 GMT
I have heards that bsps have banned it , this came from a reliable informant! I cant for the life of me think why anyone would think a lump of metal looks the part! The biggest amount of damage done to a horse is through its mouth , yes i know its about the hands that are on the end of the reins , but how many times do we see on the show ground angry compeptitors yanking at the mouth?
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Post by loulou25 on May 12, 2010 12:28:51 GMT
Exactly what i said!! At the end of the day I would never compensate my horses comfort for looks!
Each to their own!
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Post by cwmcerrigcobs on Jul 4, 2010 20:02:08 GMT
we use one and it suits our mare fine she is very light and never backs off she also goes well in a snaffle but needs a flash which is a no no in showing sorry but i have to disagree any bit is severe in the wrong hands not just a swales we have tried all sorts of bits and this suits ours best ,we have tried several in them and some they suit some they dont as with any bit ,i prefer them to say a sam marsh but these bits are for good rider with excellent hands not a quick fix . I have to agree i use a swales on my cob stallion he used to be in a rugby pelham but got quite strong in large classes i use it more as a safety than anythin he's light in the hand in this he used to lean on rugby now he's much better and it not pullin any bit can be severe in wrong hands but surely an experienced rider with sympathetic hands is moer than capable riding in this bit i know one thing if my stallion werent happy in this bit he'd be first to let me know!! lol! of course id always try other bits first and there not going to suit all horses but rather see a horse goin well in a swales than awful in a snaffle or other bit whichever suits horse best i'd say experiment
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Post by ballaghstud on Jul 4, 2010 20:14:58 GMT
My cob stallion also wears one, again beautifully schooled and very light in the hand. You are all welcome to a ride!
BUT can be very strong in the ring and no amount of schooling or showing or training etc etc will get a horse used to a ring of 40 cobs thundering about.
I use it because he is happy in it, because i am safe with it in his mouth, because he is safe with it in his mouth.
At home a child can ride him and he only wears his swales in the ring where it is needed. He has worn this bit for 3 years and has not got lower and lower and lower
Its horses for courses as with everything else
I know of a woman who's horse was a bolter and because everyone kept going on at her that this bit and that bit was too harsh and snaffles are the only thing etc etc her horse bolted with her, slipped on concrete, threw her into a wall and she died. The horse went to many professionals who 're-schooled it' and it never got any better. My point is as with everything one will suit one and not another.
I dont agree with it as a fashion accesory but as with a lot of things that are frowned upon it has its place
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Post by hollycane on Jul 4, 2010 20:51:51 GMT
As with any bit the riders hands and seatare what makes it a good or a bad 'un. The Swales bit was not seen anywhere but the polo field until about 4 years ago when a certain shortcuts producer started running out of ideas and ironwork for sale horses. We all manged without them before then. Give it a couple of years and those of you that are now riding in them will need to find something else as all horses get used to various bits even with the most perfect of riders hands. Then where will you go? Bolting isn't about what's in the mouth but in the brain. People have the incorrect idea that this bit will stop strong horses and "get their head down". If it's so great why are the showing societies banning it? And what other discipline have you ever seen it used in?
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Milliesmum
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Post by Milliesmum on Jul 4, 2010 21:28:35 GMT
Don't particularly like a single jointed snaffle either! Much prefer a french link! On an ideal pony in an ideal world, but how often does that happen?!?
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Post by Julie(luke3) on Jul 5, 2010 8:36:34 GMT
I use a french link snaffle and a french link pelham. If my big boy wanted to run off(he never has) nothing in his mouth would stop him anyway!!
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Milliesmum
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Post by Milliesmum on Jul 5, 2010 10:16:08 GMT
I think a stronger bit can sometimes make things worse - ponies run away from pain, if the bit is so severe as to cause them pain then they can run away from that. I don't mean any bit in particular, just that with a bolter there's usually a reason, either fear or pain.
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Post by jinja on Jul 5, 2010 10:49:56 GMT
I do not use a swales in any of mine for showing or schooling, BUT I have bought one to try whilst my daughter goes out hacking. The reason is 1 of ours used to drive and when she decides she is coming home she sets her jaw and is so strong my daughter has struggled to pull her up. We have tried a variety of bits but nothing up to now has stopped her and when it involves crossing a main road with heavy traffic I dont care if it hurts her mouth if it will stop her. Our pony is not scared or in pain she loves hacking out but every now and then she decides she wants to come home and sets off, my daughter will only apply pressure when the pony tries to go I have no idea if it works but we will be trying it very soon the only other alternative is to stop hacking or move house. I have not got a minutes peace when they go out.
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skye
Junior Member
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Post by skye on Jul 6, 2010 11:31:46 GMT
I'm sorry but I agree - any bit is suitable PROVIDING the rider is experienced and capable of using it correctly. Any bit is severe in the wrong hands. Judges should be looking for light hands in the ring - there is nothing worse then seeing someone having to yank a horse's mouth off. We have had a simular problem with judges complaing about an english tom thumb - the pony loves the bit, listens and is respectful to the leg. She is so strong in a snaffle and doesn't like stainless steel bits. We have tried her in a rubber pehlam, she backs off it sticks her head in the air, won't travel forward at all and genuinly looks distressed in it. So why should I not use the bit I know she likes???
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meld
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Post by meld on Jul 6, 2010 12:49:40 GMT
We tried using a swales for showing as she hates poll pressure, she went ok in it and was quite light, but her movement looked restricted. She is usually ridden in a small loose ring snaffle which she goes well in, but we find you are frowned on for using a snaffle in open ridden classes.
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Post by horseychick on Jul 6, 2010 22:13:12 GMT
As with any bit the riders hands and seatare what makes it a good or a bad 'un. The Swales bit was not seen anywhere but the polo field until about 4 years ago when a certain shortcuts producer started running out of ideas and ironwork for sale horses. We all manged without them before then. Give it a couple of years and those of you that are now riding in them will need to find something else as all horses get used to various bits even with the most perfect of riders hands. Then where will you go? Bolting isn't about what's in the mouth but in the brain. People have the incorrect idea that this bit will stop strong horses and "get their head down". If it's so great why are the showing societies banning it? And what other discipline have you ever seen it used in? I have to disagree with you there!! I've used one SINCE 2004.. i've tried many bits for my mare to have good brakes,she is well schooled & very clever mare with ringcraft. you say it forces their heads down,well it does not with my mare,i feel safe that i can stop & have good hands with this bit. each to there own
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Post by dantheman on Jul 6, 2010 23:03:30 GMT
I have to disagree with all of those completely against the bit! I totally agree with the mum`s that use one on ponies because there children are safer with the bit in! I don`t nessacerily think these bit`s look all that nice as i personally think the best looking bit`s are loose ring pelhams, a double or an ordinary loose ring snaffle... How ever I`m sorry but in this sport we all have to put our own (and our childrens) safety first and if this bit adds a morsel of safety to the sport (in some cases) then I am all for it!! Plus can it really be that bad if our countries top show riders and showjumpers are using them?? For example Ellen Whitaker uses one on Locarno and Danielle Heath`s small hunter Derby Park Dazzle won several small hunter titles in the bit. I have just "googled" the bit and found alot of good and bad feed back on it.... "It is quite old-fashioned and has been around for a long time," says Martyn Welsh, bitting expert at Equiport. "We've seen a resurgence in its popularity with show jumpers, who like it because it works well on strong horses, and show producers favour this bit on horses who tend to go overbent, as the Swales doesn't incorporate any poll pressure in its action. The strength depends on the length of the shank — its main action is through the curb." Also Hollycane the bit actually originally is a driving bit not a polo bit.
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Post by sageandonion on Jul 7, 2010 8:08:46 GMT
It is preferable to have a child riding a safe, schooled pony rather than sticking a massive tonne of iron in its mouth and you don't need an ideal world to achieve that.
I don't think any of us can compare ourselves or our horses to Ellen Whittaker and any of her mounts and I think Hollycane knows one or two things about horses.
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Post by ballaghstud on Jul 7, 2010 8:21:28 GMT
here we go again. oppinions will always be strong about bitting etc. And that is all it is someones oppinion.
There are fors and againsts for everything.
I use the Swales and i like it on my D because he likes it, it works, im happy, hes happy, we are safe and sound, this is fact. He does not lean and rides beautifully with a correct head carriage. He has competed in it for 3 years without a single judges comment. He has been judge ridden with very high ride mark and won many many Championships at County level. And he is certainly not the only one.
There is also far more than one person on this site that knows one or two things about horses. We all learn things from each other and share our views and thoughts which is surely what this site is for? Because none of us know everything! god only knows why everything has to come down to bit*hing and slating everything.
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Post by jinja on Jul 7, 2010 12:29:49 GMT
ballahstud I think your last post makes a lot of sence and as in most things its never just black or white. I hate to see any horse or pony going badly as that proves it is not happy about something, and if a horse goes sweetly and happily I have no preference to what is in its mouth. I have seen many ponies with snaffles with their heads up and the children ripping at their mouths a good pair of hands is what all horses and ponies need. We have a novice at the minute that hates the nuele schule starter bit made from sweet metal it has the little nugget in the middle to keep them happy, it is supposed to be the dogs bo***cks but our pony is not happy in it. In fact she also hates the french link now these bits are supposed to be the kindess bits to start off with. We then tried a copper roller snaffle which is supposed to be more severe and she sits into her bridle ears forward loving it. Never say never.
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