what could be wrong
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Post by what could be wrong on Jun 11, 2010 18:03:19 GMT
Have a pony who i thought was on the verge of lami, got farrier who said no signs of lami, come out of his stable a little footy but is fine after a few strides, looks completely sound in walk but refusses to trot, will try to trot but after a stride or 2 finds it painful, had vet who has said it is lami and put pony on bute, but no heat in feet and no racing pulse, i get the feeling the vet just put pony into the lami category as many do when they see a small pony who is footy, anyway treating as lami with no improvement - changed feed to ones reccomended by lami trust, does anybody have any idea what else it might be? pony never been fat/overweight and is usually quite full of 'beans' but seems miserable.
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Post by might not on Jun 11, 2010 18:21:45 GMT
No, may not be fat, but have you happened to notice the weather lately??? rain, rain, rain, then sun??? common sense may help, just said today to a friend, watch how many ponies get lammi this week!
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what could be wrong
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Post by what could be wrong on Jun 11, 2010 18:26:50 GMT
Sorry should have said pony is out with muzzle on x
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Post by might not on Jun 11, 2010 18:27:58 GMT
but they can still eat new grass growth cant they?!
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Post by Julie(luke3) on Jun 11, 2010 18:28:19 GMT
It could be an abscess? If there is no improvement in a few days I would get your farrier out again.They are better at digging around!! Good luck.
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what could be wrong
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Post by what could be wrong on Jun 11, 2010 18:32:58 GMT
but they can still eat new grass growth cant they?! yes i agree they can still eat new grass growth, i'm not a novice pony owner, he doesn't live out, 4 hours max in field, as i said i have been treating as lami but there has been no improvement, just wanted to know if anybody had come across anything similar, i've always been careful with ponies because of the risk of lami, this is the first case i've had to deal with, thats if it is lami.
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Post by viking on Jun 11, 2010 18:39:26 GMT
I would be inclined to think abscess.
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Post by network on Jun 11, 2010 19:55:02 GMT
No, may not be fat, but have you happened to notice the weather lately??? rain, rain, rain, then sun??? common sense may help, just said today to a friend, watch how many ponies get lammi this week! Dont actually think that was called for do you
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Post by welshbyname on Jun 11, 2010 20:29:49 GMT
You have just described EXACTLY whats happened to our Hercy (darti) he's showing all signs for lami but vet and farrier say its not, no heat in feet no heel stance but very footy and reluctant to move, is a bit better now he's had feet packed. Our farrier has said that almost half the horses he's seeing at the mo are lame in this sort of way, worrying really Is yours barefoot or shod?
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Post by chalky284 on Jun 11, 2010 20:49:31 GMT
I am inclined to think that it is lami, as it is very much the same as my lami pony was. I would advise a very thick shavings bed, box rest and bute, soaked hay and NO sugars whatsoever. Only high fibre cubes, hi-fi lite and speedibeet. Get some x-rays to see if there is any rotation. Obviously I really hope it isn't lami, but without seeing pony I can only speculate, whats he like turning??
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Post by Jenna on Jun 11, 2010 20:52:00 GMT
iv heard of this and pony was diagnosed as having sore feet from hard ground
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what could be wrong
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Post by what could be wrong on Jun 11, 2010 20:58:12 GMT
he's barefoot, but always had good feet.
He does everything fine in walk once he's moving, looks completely normal, it's just when i ask him to trot, he tries his best then seems to just give up and walk again.
Only feeding him on healthy hooves and hay atm
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Post by maybe not on Jun 11, 2010 21:01:34 GMT
4 hours can still be too much, with all the new grass growth and no, i didn't think my comment was uncalled for, is about time pony owners woke up to the harsh reality of pony owning! Laminitus is an awful thing and i feel for anyone who has a pony with it, but, its up to us to ensure we do our best to prevent it, after the weather we have just had and, are now having, changes should have been made, to cut down grass intake accordingly. So if you let a pony out for 4 hours previously, now we have a flush of new growth, then cut that time down, give extra hay. It is something that needs assessing daily, not as the seasons change.
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Post by lollipop on Jun 11, 2010 21:03:42 GMT
hi, have you tried tight turns at walk on concrete - if they can do that easily may rule lammi out
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what could be wrong
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Post by what could be wrong on Jun 11, 2010 21:08:17 GMT
i don't think 4 hours out with muzzle on is excessive, the field is a fatty paddock too, i'm not an irresponsable (sp) pony owner, i do know how awful lami is which is why i have done everything to minimise the risks, i don't need a lecture in how to look after my pony, was just asking if anybody had experienced similar as farrier - who i always call first at any sign of foot problem, said it was not lami!
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Post by I think on Jun 11, 2010 21:13:48 GMT
I think it's lami... everything pointing to it... why do you think it itsn't lami?? I would think a brewing abcess would show as a lameness in that one foot? how long have you been treating him for? treat him as if it's bad lami - not even limited turn out with a muzzle, box rest, deep deep bed, let out in arena and let him mooch about if he wants to, don't make him move, bute, aspirin & frog supports, soaked hay, no corn etc etc etc
If you really don't believe it's lami could the vet to do nerve blocks? Then at least you will know if the problem is in his feet or not.
Also, an x-ray will tell you a lot....has he just had his feet done and then gone foot sore? could be if there has been any movement of the pedal bone whether lami or wrongly balanced feet etc, if the distance between the pedal bone & the sole is getting less that would of course make his feet sore. At least you can show your farrier the x-rays & he could correct anything like that???
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Post by maybe not on Jun 11, 2010 21:24:52 GMT
Ok, so new grass doesn't come through in paddocks like that? sorry but that can be alot worse than having them on long stemmy grass! and yes 4 hours can be excessive when the grass growth is how it is! Does your farrier have x ray eyes? If i thought for one second one of mine had it, i'd be wanting the best vet in the country to attend, never mind the farrier, take "i thinks" advice! I never said you were irresponsible, pointing out that so many owners dont seem to know these basic facts!
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Post by lizzie on Jun 11, 2010 21:47:53 GMT
It could be very early stage lammy or possibly bruised sole. If it is a bruised sole you are doing the right thing anyway by box resting and letting them rest their feet on a nice thick bed. This hard ground has caused a lot of problems like that. Ive had one mare who we initially thought was lami and like you the vet or farrier couldnt find anything but said treat as lami just in case and within a week she was completely sound and it now looks like it was a bruised sole. Only takes a couple of minutes of running round on hard ground and bobs your uncle. I would give your pony another few days and if no improvement ask the vet to come out and x-ray. You definately seem to know what your doing and its perfectly reasonable to ask for advice as these things can be puzzling. Hope your pony is feeling better soon
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Post by Just a thought on Jun 11, 2010 21:56:20 GMT
Just a thought but has your pony tweaked a muscle anywhere? Most can be fine in walk but then using different muscles to trot will be too sore. And if he has been standing in not using the muscles they could have stiffened up so to speak.
Not all lami or abcess cases have pulses or heat in their feet. I wouldn't rule that out in the long term until you can find a definite cause for your ponies distress.
Good luck in finding the route of the problem.
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sarahp
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Post by sarahp on Jun 12, 2010 7:52:39 GMT
Abecess likely to be one foot only so pony would be lame, not just equally footy on both feet as this one sounds.
Laminitis secondary to EMS or suchlike can be atypical and in all four feet, just one, or in hinds only so you may not get the typical stance. And not necessarily triggered by feed either! I've had laminitis diagnosed by my blacksmith when the vet couldn't (although I refused to take the old mare down to the hospital for expensive and invasive tests), but by the wider, pink white line - ie the bottom surface of the laminae, and what I don't know is how long this takes to show after an attack. Anyone know? This mare was lame on one hind only, by the way, and had never shown any typical laminitis symptoms whatsoever in her life although blacksmith had said a few times she had pink in her white lines. In hindsight she probably had long term EMS/insulin resistance but much less was known about it then.
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Post by dimwit on Jun 12, 2010 15:19:55 GMT
Ponies dont only get lami through grass mine got lami through stress cause i left him whilst he was been schooled, he was badly treat before we got him. He had only gone to a friend of mine poor little man. I was talking to my blacksmith about it and he said sciencetist are saying it has nothing to do with the grass, down to circulation in the feet but who knows. Hope your pony gets well soon
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Post by seth398 on Jun 12, 2010 16:07:03 GMT
i had a pony a few years ago which we thought had lammi reluctant to walk and refused to trot but no typical symptoms ie heat stance etc blacksmith ruled out lammi vet suggested physio it turned out pony had trapped a nerve just behind withers soon came sound . also we had ex race horse like a whippet not turned out much but used to get concussion lammi on hard ground blacksmith sorted that out. good luck with your pony:)
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Post by cholderton on Jun 13, 2010 13:12:40 GMT
I have a tbx pony who was exactly the same in the winter? Then was fine till the heat wave and the ground baked (simmilar to when it was frozen in jan/feb) so I had front shoes put on, and she's been fine since. ;D
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Post by thinkso on Jun 13, 2010 20:04:07 GMT
I agree all the signs point to lami, we had our first ever lami case in well over 20yrs earlier this year, in a fit, not fat pony caused through a hormone problem. I have seen lots of others though and in the early stages other than being "footy" and having pulses there's not always much more to go by, the laminae does not go pink straight away this usually happens more as the laminae dies, to start with it is just infamation (itis - inflamation) in the laminae causing the pony to go foot sore with raised pulses (though not necessarily pounding) due to the increased blood flow to the area. If it was my pony i would keep it on strict box rest for a fortnight to start with as with the laminae weakend the pedal bone will have less support and therefor be at risk of rotating if the pony is moving round too much, best to keep the pony on a deep shavings bed and feed low quality hay soaked. For feed its best to use something like spillers happy hoof as it has everything in it that the pony needs without the protien, and also add carrots as they are mostly water. Also do use the bute your vet has given you as it is anti inflamatory as well as pain killer. Hopefully after a couple of weeks at this you should see an improvement and the laminae should have settled enough to start walking the pony out and eventually short time small paddock turnout, it's best to walk on grass/surface and keep to straight lines to start with as this will put less pressure on the weakend laminae. I imagine the pony is feeling miserable due to the pain from his feet. Hope this helps a little, keep us posted.
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Post by Jenna on Jun 13, 2010 20:07:52 GMT
iv always thought carrots were bad fr lamanitics as there full or sugar (glucose?) iv banned my lamanitic from having them anyway
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sarahp
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Post by sarahp on Jun 14, 2010 5:04:53 GMT
Likewise jenna! And aren't actually dead laminae grey/black and flaky with a much widened "white line"? I'm sure pink is active inflammation, just don't know if they show pink right down on the bottom of the foot immediately.
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Post by thinkso on Jun 15, 2010 10:40:56 GMT
Yes, carrots and apples have a higher natural sugar content than some other fruits and veg however carrots have very good anti inflammatory properties and fed in small quantities i.e 1 or 2 in a feed have never had bad effects on any of my or other peoples that i know horses/ponies laminitic or not. Of my couple of diabetic friends, neither are banned from eating carrots either! The laminae does indeed turn red with inflamation but will not be seen straight away on the bottom of the hoof where the farrier trims, the black laminae is dead - dried blood. SarahP you seem to have taken offence to my earlier reply? I am no vet and reply on here purely from my own experiences with horses/ponies that i have cared for as do many others.
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Post by sageandonion on Jun 15, 2010 11:02:03 GMT
I would rely more on my farrier for a diagnosis (or not) for laminitis. Has your farrier/vet had the hoof testers on? A pony with laminitis will usually react to hoof testers in the toe area, whilst an abcess can elicit pain in any area.
You should treat your pony as if he has laminitis in the interim, but I personally would want this discounted if it isn't laminitis as otherwise you will have laminitis excluded from your insurance cover for the future.
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Post by tornado on Jun 15, 2010 11:25:07 GMT
My pony had exactly the same symptoms 2 weeks ago and it did turn out to be an abscess.I hope this helps as there is nothing worse than worrying about possible laminitis. My pony had no heat in the foot at all.
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Post by smb on Jun 15, 2010 13:08:18 GMT
It could have got lami from eating just hay, a few ponies at our yard got it over winter when they were kept because of the snow from eating just hay and none of them were fat ponies, something to do with building up glucose intolerance, all fine now their hay is soaked. Its not just fat ponies who have too much grass which get lami! I would trust what your vet says more then the farrier, if your pony was just on the verges of getting it might not have an obvious pulse and it will take a a couple of weeks for a pony with lami to improve even when on a soft bed and being fed soaked hay
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