What is the biggest stallion I can breed with 12.2

[holiday]

It is advised no more than 2 hands higher than the mare, however there is differing opinions on this, especially with the use of AI as it is the mare who grows the foal to the size she can produce, however you do have risks with any birth.

This is a rising 3 year old "Katie"I have bred from Loveden Sea Swallow a grey Section B mare by Chateau De Brion a show jumping stallion she is standing at 14hh and won the Champion Mare at the SPSS grading 2010



For Swallows 2011 foal I have used our stallion Bathleyhills Chocolate Dream who is a 14hh show hunter type and im very excited about foalies arrival!!!!!!

[harrythepig]

Loving Katie Penny!!!!

[johnnyoctober2009]

Just googles AI thx

[lils]

Dec 5, 2010 17:13:33 GMT johnnyoctober2009 said:

Wat is AI? Katie looks stunning 

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i dont wish to come across as really rude, but have you really done any research as surely if you had started researching putting your are in foal, you would have come across the term AI?!

[holiday]

Thank you HTP she is pretty special and is in foal to our Thistledown Copper Lustre for 2011 (fingers crossed lots of baby pics coming up in due course!!!!!!)

lils I dont think you come across as rude, just a concerned breeder!!! However I remember being at that point and not understanding either the pros, cons or outcomes!!!!!

AI to someone who hasnt used it or bred before is the option to use stallions from different areasas the semen arrives in a syringe!!! However you need an experienced vet to be successful. It is definately in my point of view a safer option for both mares and stallions and reduces chance of injury!!!!!!!

If you decide to breed next season JO2009 be sure to realise the risks of foaling to both mare and foal and be honest with yourself you could risk total lose of both, it would be in my opinion to read and research and consider sending your mare to stud to foal. It might be worth reading my post on our Orphan Foal Arthur (in this section) to put things into an honest two way thought.

It would be lucky to get a foal who makes 14hh from a 12.2hh mare however it is possible, I would think to use a 14hhish stallion on her you would make possibly 13.2hh

[lisa]

i think you have to ask yourself the real reson you want to bred ? breeding can be very rewarding but it is also very expensive and time consuming and a huge gamble,
i agree there is nothing more rewarding as seeing your homebreds play in the field or taking them to a show but i sadly have expenranced the lows as well,

the lady i worked for had a 15.2 cob mare in foal to a 13hh section b stallion she went full term in her pregnancy and started with a text book labour until we saw the ears arrive before the legs hours of pain for the mare the vet tryed everything he could to turn the foal then a trip to the horspital the foal was born dead by c section the reason ? because the foal was to big. the mare died 3 days later.

then this year i found one of my broodmares dead in the field and have been hand rearing her stunning filly foal who was 6 weeks old at the time for the last 20 weeks at £30 a week min. would i do it again ? yes

please think it through completely before you decided to bred from your mare i am not trying to put you off or belittle you. Just make you aware how much of a gamble it is. There are some fantastic young ponys for sale and this way you can be more certain of what you are getting. If you do decided to breed from your mare then if you have any questions i am happy to try and answer them

[brindlerainbow]

Well said Lisa :-) My mare had a dead foal last year, she went back to stud but absorbed, she is now in foal due next May and is having herpes jabs at 2 month intervals ( 3 in total ). Breeding can be very rewarding but can also be heart breaking and very expensive. Make sure you budget for any disasters that may happen

[johnnyoctober2009]

Thanks for ya honest answers/opinions it is something I really need to wise up on and I wouldn't do it alone I would always seek professional veterinary advice however our mare we have had for 7 years now but recently over the last 8 months she has shown to be very very naughty off the lead rein bucking every rider who can't sit a buck off. Had everything checked and it seems to be a habit she's picked up from the children coming off the lead rein. Unfortunatley she broke one of my daughters arms in the process and now neither want to ride her. Her temperament on the ground and on the lead rein you couldn't ask for better. We tried loaning her as a lead rein and they were aware of the bucking off the lead rein and 3 month later she came back. She is 12 now and loaning her from home to home is not fair and I couldn't imagine selling her, hence why I'm wondering having her put in foal not to sell it but for my daughter to have once she has outgrown her fine 13hh. Like I said I'm only just thinking about it and one of the things I wondered so as to make sure the foal would grow to a size we could use was to see what the biggest stallion was she could breed with

[bronco]

it's good that are prepared to ask questions johnnyoctober2009 , but why on earth do you want a foal from your mare? You want it a lot bigger than her, and a different colour to her. You say she's 12.2 and a section A, so she must be over height? is she registered? Why not go to a sale and buy a bay cob foal who will be everything you want?

[johnnyoctober2009]

? She is registered and passported her passport reads welsh section a height 12.2hh. I was just wondering and thought I would post???

[bronco]

It may be very diffult to breed a non-grey from her. Some greys can only breed grey., regardless what they're put to. I wasn't being sarcastic on my last post, just seriously think you'd be better off buying a suitable youngster which would fit what you want. Breeding is a bit of a lottery at the best of times, and there's no point in breeding a foal from your mare that is unlikely to be what you want.

[johnnyoctober2009]

To be honest colour isn't an issue we've put up with her bright grey coat all these years it was just something I was considering to see if it would be worth having a foal out of her a little bit of her in a pony my children could actually ride and compete eventually.

[holiday]

Its always a lottery breeding and you can put the best mare to the best stallion that suits her and still be disappointed. However I can see both sides of everyones points, it is probably cheaper and safer to buy a youngster as you can see what youve got in front of you however I can also see JO2009 point of wanting to keep a part of her mare in a foal. JO2009 if you are at Doncaster we are only at Newark, you would be more than welcome to come over and have a chat and talk through all the pros and cons. It is certainly not a decision to be taken likely.

[dressagemad]

I thought about breeding from my mare this year or next but have decided against it. I couldn't take the risk of losing her as she is far too precious to me and is a horse in a lifetime who has given me so much confidence. I opted to buy a foal instead.

Also it is not always wise to breed from a mare with temperament issues. Mares pass on their temperaments to their foals and you may end up with a nightmare of a foal and considering it will be to keep for your daughter do you really want that risk? You say she bucks with everyrider off the lead rein and this already has knocked your daughters confidence so much that they don't want to ride her. This could be a trait she passes on as stallions can only do so much and even the most saintly stallion could still result in a temperamental foal from the mares side. The 12.2 mare knocks your daughters confidence but imagine an unruly 14 hand youngster and it will be a whole lot worse.

It is a wonderful thought breeding a foal but maybe needs more consideration and maybe it is worth thinking about buying a youngster and keeping your mare as a companion. You will probably save in the long run too as breeding is costly both financially and emotionally. Good luck with whatever route you decide to take and the breeding chit chat posts are a good read if you need further advice or questions answered.

[kzzp123]

The devils in the detail, the detail is in the dam! We as a country should be seriously considering what we are breeding and what we are breeding from. Please be careful you could end up with something just the same that will be passed round from place to place and that may never have a job or worse still could really hurt someone! Handling is another issue, have you got the necessary experience to handle a foal and bring on a youngster?! Also first foals are known to be small and not the mares best foal. Get some real advice talk to experts, studs, vets, trainers. Stud fees are just one cost, you then have scans, jabs, diet, foaling, costs to keep for 4 years without doing anything all to consider and have you got the facilities or the transport as even pony mares need a nice big box to foal down in and if you need to transport the mare and foal is your lorry/trailer suitable do you have partitions with no gaps for the foal to get stuck/slide through? All silly little things that people forget! :-) Best of luck K xxx

[deaconsfield]

we lost our beutiful mare this year 3 days after foaling due to a torn uterus ,i am deverstated ,breeding is rewarding but can so easley go wrong in so many ways and experiance and knolage is a must have !

[m&mwhp]

surely everyone must start somewhere though guys?! good luck if you decide to put her in foal!

[sarahp]

I'm with holiday - I've bred for over 30 years and can see both sides. It would definitely be cheaper and more certain to get what you want by buying a youngster, but breeding is in itself rewarding as long as you go into it with open eyes and knowledge, or the awareness that you need knowledgeable help and advice. There can always be breeding disasters, but they are few and far between, I'd love to see some proper figures and not just anecdotes which can give a false impression of the dangers. There are too far more ponies currently bred than there is demand for, so please only consider it if you can secure the foal's future whatever it is.

As for your mare - at 12.2hh she is overheight for a Welsh A but so what if you are breeding a part-bred? If she is fine temperamentally on the ground and LR she cannot basically have an inherently bad temperament but has learned along the way that she can take advantage when off the LR, which is more of a "nurture" problem than a "nature" one. And her foal should be bigger and your daughter older by the time it is ridden, so properly treated from birth and broken there should not necessarily be any reason for it to buck people off! I feel that the first foal being small and not as good is a total myth, it doesn't seem to happen like that here. All mine have been of normal and expected size, although as I breed pure breds with a few exceptions that is what I'd expect - crosses can be more variable in height anyway. And quality varies with many more factors that first foal or not. As an (purely anecdotal!) example the first foal from my old 14.1hh D mare was by a 16hh AES SJ stallion - it made a whisker short of 16hh, won Chs IH and the top second premium from AES out of a huge class on his grading show. The full sister two years later was 14.2hh. Just another thought the has made me think of - the size of stallion used is not just a question of height but of build too, my wide, deep D mare was fine with the big stallion but he was a neat, quality sort, I wouldn't have put a great hulking ID or something that height on her.

On costs - stud fee of course, plus keep which need not be a lot depending on the stud visited and of course she's not at home eating your grass then! AI is expensive, or at least frozen or chilled is, on stud from a stallion on the spot may be a different matter but check their conception figures. I never scan my As, I feel they are too small - actually I don't do the Ds either unless I have good reason. They don't foal early, so don't cost much in extra feed. Pregnant mares only really need extra feed in the last few months, and mine go from their winter hay/haylage onto the first grass I have available and foal on that out in the field later on. I don't feed hard feed in the field because they can scrum over it, but if you only have one I'd feed a balancer just to make sure they get all necessary micronutrients. Natives are normally very good doers, and feed their foals here on just grass too - and I cultivate grotty grass on purpose to avoid laminitis! I'm a huge believer in horses and ponies foaling outside, again plus's and minus's. I feel they have far fewer complications doing that, but on the down side you are less likely to pick up any that do occur.

Transportwise when I had a trailer I just took all partitions out and traveled mare and foal together loose with the top doors shut, and in the lorry they have two spaces with the partition removed, again traveled loose. I do have a purpose built partition to the other space down to the floor and with a small door, but the lorry was fitted out to my specifications. For an occasional journey it's amazing what you can do with bales of straw and baler twine to make it safe! Once the foal is weaned and taught to tie up then normal conditions apply.


Anyway, you have plenty of thoughts on here to consider, and holiday's kind offer to take up too so good luck whichever you decide.

[holiday]

I think everyone feels the same that people need to know both sides of the breeding. Disasters can happen to anyone and a breeders needs to go into the process with their eyes open to the "what ifs" The majority of mares foal very well and have straight forward uncomplicated births.

However there is nothing nicer than looking into your paddock and watching your homebred foal playing and feeling a great pride in the choices you have made to get that little person on the ground safe and sound!!!!!

[shwmaeCP]

Well there is some debate on this but our vet and other vets have assured that a mare will actually only let a foal grow inside her to the size she can cope with and will not allow it to grow anymore.
However they did say for a maiden mare it would be safer to stick to under certain heights until she was used to foaling and stretched inside but of course this is just a hand full of vets opinions.

We personally keep to under 3hh's higher then the mare but I do know some people go higher and bigger then this

Also like bathley hills has said and I can assure her word is one from knowledge anything can happen and it is advised to go in with an open mind that anything at any stage can happen and sometimes you have to prepare yourself for the worse.