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Post by poneydestiny on May 30, 2011 6:20:26 GMT
Hello everyone, Thank you to all of you who are doing research and posting informative links on this page, we are taking advantage of each and every one to make our side of the information gathering easier as we are working non-stop as those of you who have already associated with us know. I would like to re-repeat my invitation to those of you who want to have detailed, specific, ongoing briefings - come join us, volunteer your time, join a project in your specific interest area, contribute to the fact finding behind the scenes and then and only then will you understand that to hang all the wash out to dry in full public view is in no one's interest. Most persons on this forum have clearly understood that. There is no need to be the Procurer on a forum, and sometimes you play right into the hands of the soliciters for the other side. Discretion is a good thing and we can harness all the engaged energy to get information into the right hands at the right time. Still looking for someone to do research for me on the welsh pony being slaughtered for meat as I don't think we have enough facts on that one for instance..all of these little pieces are parts of a larger whole. Volunteers who work directly with us understand that. Keep the great information coming, and your individual actions, every bit counts. Maybe we could have some feedback on the weekend sales (we have a couple but not enough) ok back to work!
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Post by CarolineNelson on May 30, 2011 6:55:13 GMT
Wrists (even the damaged one) satisfactorily slapped. I comprehend.
But, the washing has already been hung out by others, long before I asked a simple question.
Regards, CMN
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Post by poneydestiny on May 30, 2011 7:03:05 GMT
No wrist slapping intended Strength in Numbers, all pulling together! We will sort issues on multiple levels with your help! And our apologies if we can't always be as transparent or quick with a response as we would like. Thanks again, join us in any capacity your skills are needed!
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Post by brindlerainbow on May 30, 2011 7:17:14 GMT
This thread needs to get back on track. It is about pony welfare and what we can do to improve the lot of these ponies, not about who has seen what, who should have done this, that or the other and who is right or wrong!!!! Ok so whats the next step ?
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Post by poneydestiny on May 30, 2011 7:26:18 GMT
On another subject..just wanted to share an experience - when Destiny was pitchforked to death in a little place with 7 families answering into a small village of 350, I circulated a paper regarding "The Shame of A Village". What was the shame? That for over 40 years one particular family, and people associated with them had formed a sort of vigilante group whom through menaces, physical abuse and criminal acts kept everyone else in check. The problem was that the villagers had allowed this to go on so long, that it became acceptable(!) and ah yes that is how things are done, sort of attitude. The little paper began to get people talking, and the more they spoke, the more information the gendarmes collected, the more things began to become very clear. I salute the persons who have the courage to begin this process in your little area of the world. Change does happen and it happens through courageous persons. We admire all of those who begin to speak out, your voices will be heard. Silence confirms criminal acts. If any of you are menaced or if there are criminal acts perpetrated, shout it from the rooftops, make police reports (against unknown persons if necessary to start the investigative process) I am sure under english law you have also severe sanctions against physical assault,(in the US it is doubled against aged persons) and hopefully restraint orders can be put into place, against uncontrolled person/persons, which identifies them for all to see. We are with you in this fight!
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Post by jebediah on May 30, 2011 7:57:52 GMT
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Post by poneydestiny on May 30, 2011 8:42:05 GMT
jebediah, thanks for that, Elaine Tasker is the president and REBS is forming inter-links with that excellent society to maximise efforts - need reports from the front on sales if anyone sees blatent poor ponies being presented (number, name, date, where, sales organisation in charge, and any other info)
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Post by fayecary on May 30, 2011 9:13:49 GMT
From what I have read earlier, I believe it was Evan Evans who had roped the mares legs to try and move her from public view NOT the person who took the photo!!! So he was fully aware that she was dead................ That's how I read it too, BR... Why on earth would 2 elderly ladies want to attempt to drag a dead pony out of view would baffle me TBH...
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Post by fayecary on May 30, 2011 9:24:09 GMT
jebediah, thanks for that, Elaine Tasker is the president and REBS is forming inter-links with that excellent society to maximise efforts - need reports from the front on sales if anyone sees blatent poor ponies being presented (number, name, date, where, sales organisation in charge, and any other info) Sadly, many of these low-end markets DONT have a sales catalogue..its only been in the last 2 years that Brecon has produced one!!...it is therefore very difficult for people to gather relevent info..Elaine and myself "know" the regular "faces" at these sales and between us, lorry reg numbers/discriptions etc we gain a profile of who it is..and circulate. What i'm trying to say is it is very difficult, unless you go regularly to recognise "the bad guys" as they really do look like your favourite uncle/cousin!!...and its extremely difficult, sometimes dangerous, to openly take photo's.. Please be careful those of you who aren't "hardened" to these markets..and i dont mean that to be patronising in any way..as they are dreadful, soul distroying placese
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Post by fayecary on May 30, 2011 9:25:38 GMT
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Post by diadem on May 30, 2011 9:28:55 GMT
From what I have read earlier, I believe it was Evan Evans who had roped the mares legs to try and move her from public view NOT the person who took the photo!!! So he was fully aware that she was dead................ That's how I read it too, BR... Why on earth would 2 elderly ladies want to attempt to drag a dead pony out of view would baffle me TBH... Me too If he couldnt have moved her himself,why not get some one more able bodied to take out tractor and link box and gently move her to be uplifted. We have reported people before now for leaving multiple sheep carcasses on theyre land, AnimalHealth were there within 24 hours. Quite ironic really as the owner of the field also is employed as an uplifter of fallen stock, just goes to show, not all of us have any respect for animals in life or after theyre sad demise.
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Post by fayecary on May 30, 2011 9:37:23 GMT
i've had fallen stock 3 on the same day (young worm burdened foals bought at Brecon, that made the criccieth ponies look fat!!)..i immediately rang the Knackerman..it was a Saturday evening..he said not to panic as i legally had 36 hours to report/remove..so i covered with a weighted tarp..and he came 6am on the monday..i certainly didn't leave the poor souls open to the elements before removal
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Post by poneydestiny on May 30, 2011 11:32:15 GMT
Hello Faye, Thanks for qualifying the market post, Yes Discrete Discrete Discrete! No head above the parapet please! Ref the Equine Rescue France, yes and I believe they regularly post on my Pony Destiny FB page - this is something from their site which gives a little view on "horsemeat"..and I think on that issue we are all in agreement, as with all farm animals, dignified, humane and in accordance with accepted farming practices..Even for little welsh ponies..!!
Taken from ERF site Horsemeat in France Horses and donkeys have been farmed for centuries in France and other European countries for their meat. Whilst to many this is something that is culturally unacceptable there are many parallels that can be drawn globally, from guinea pigs and dogs to pigs. Indeed, there are some strong arguments in favour of farming equines for meat – without such markets, breed such at the Percheron, Breton and Comtois would be following the UK’s Suffolk Punch and Shires as they head towards extinction. Without the need for these breeds to work the fields there are few incentives to keep the breeds alive.
At ERF, we understand the delicacy of passing judgment on traditional practices and therefore we do not support campaigns to stop the consumption of horse meat. Instead we focus on ensuring that the realities of the horse meat trade are publicised and let consumers draw their own conclusions. Year on year, the horse meat market continues to decline and campaigning to stop people eating horse meat may well reverse this trend.
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Post by poneydestiny on May 31, 2011 7:16:58 GMT
For those of you unable to visit our FB page Responsible Equine Breeding Society which is being used as the collection point for all pertinent information while our website is being constructed.. Here is a recent article from one of our Founding Members which you might find of interest in a magazine providing a summation of the events triggering the movement. For those of you who have access to Facebook, we have also just published our Mission Statement From Horse Nag www.nagmagonline.com/s/news-and-events/p142753/action-to-stop-the-plight-of-welsh-ponies.html
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Post by sageandonion on Jun 2, 2011 8:07:24 GMT
has anyone had H&H this week? Any follow up article, or anything on the letters page? Let's make an effort to keep this thread to the fore now, there is a long journey yet.
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Post by lottiechad on Jun 2, 2011 8:46:16 GMT
Yes only looked at H&H quickly but pg 5 report saying ponies have been removed and 2 letters
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Milliesmum
H G Addict
COCKERP00S RULE!!!
Posts: 23,901
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Post by Milliesmum on Jun 2, 2011 8:50:15 GMT
Brilliant, you have to applaud the power of the internet!
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Post by brindlerainbow on Jun 2, 2011 8:52:55 GMT
Fantastic, I havent seen H & H but good on them for following up
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Post by poneydestiny on Jun 2, 2011 13:49:38 GMT
Hello! We are awaiting a Horse Scene article on Criccieth and the Brightwell Sales, we have the text, and it was mentioned that they would be publishing June 2nd, so we are watching and waiting - another good article though mentioning the terrific support we had from all of you. Working on several other things which dovetail into this, to effect change at the source of the problems, will update as we can. Don't worry we are active and starting to see good results from everyone's efforts. Thank you! For those who can, FB page, Responsible Equine Breeding we try to update every day with news as well - this particular forum is perfect as there have been over 65,000 "views" which we can point out to government officials in terms of public caring so it is good to maintain this most popular thread as long as we can. If you go to the petition there are over 90 comments and these also will be presented to the Welsh Government so continue all of your good efforts, we applaud you! Strength in Numbers for Quick Results
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Post by poneydestiny on Jun 2, 2011 13:53:51 GMT
This was the update published in H + H by Karen Spinner June 1st Horse & Hound article 26/05/11 Furore over condition of Welsh ponies at sale
Karen Spinner
1 June, 2011
Check out the latest H&H subscription offers >>
The "very poor" condition of Welsh ponies sold at auction house Brightwells earlier this month has caused outrage and opened a wide debate on overbreeding.
Since the sale at Builth Wells on 14 May, horse lovers have questioned whether Brightwells was right to let them through the ring.
Discussion centres on a group of animals from Evan Lloyd Evans' Criccieth Stud in Gwynedd.
H&H was unable to speak to Mr Evans, a life member of the WPCS, but a family member admitted: "He accepts he has too many ponies and wants to cut right down."
Readers were concerned about how thin some of the ponies were — especially the 11-year-old mare Sunwillow Hernani, who had a foal at foot. World Horse Welfare confirmed it has received "concerns" from members of the public.
A spokesman for the charity added: "We have been working closely with Mr Evans during the past week and will continue to do so to help resolve the situation."
The RSPCA is also looking into the case and H&H has been told that at least one complaint has been lodged with the Welsh government.
Despite the storm of criticism, Brightwells' Terry Court staunchly defended the auction house's position.
"I've been selling ponies for 56 years and wouldn't dream of selling anything unhealthy," he told H&H. "The ponies weren't fat, but they wouldn't be — they'd come straight off the mountains. I can't bear the thought of any animal going to the slaughterhouse and by selling them we've found them all nice homes."
But Brightwells' vet Bertie Ellis admitted that the condition of the ponies was "very poor".
He added: "I believe the best thing for the ponies' welfare is to get them through the ring and into a new home. They are better off being sold than going back to where they came from."
For the full news story on the condition of ponies at sale, see the current issue of Horse & Hound (26 May, 2011)
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Post by poneydestiny on Jun 2, 2011 14:08:17 GMT
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Post by jebediah on Jun 2, 2011 14:34:18 GMT
Excellent letter from Dr willyinson in this weeks H&H linked to Responsible Equine Breeding Society
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Post by icarus on Jun 2, 2011 20:15:02 GMT
This taken from a Horse and Hound report 2008
Ascot cracks down on 'meat men' buying racehorses at sales Martha Terry
5 December, 2008 Ascot and auctioneers Brightwells have instituted a new protocol at their sales to prevent ex-racehorses being sold for human consumption.
Horses can raise up to £650 when they are sold for meat and as Brightwells' minimum sale price is £300, there had been fears that "meat men" may be attracted to sales at the royal racecourse.
Minimum sale prices at Doncaster and Newmarket Sales are £500.
Ascot spokesman Nick Smith said that from now on buyers of horses priced £300-£800 face a life ban from Ascot sales if they cannot provide evidence of the horse's whereabouts to Brightwells six months after purchase.
Mr Smith said: "Mostly it will be a formality, as Brightwells will know the purchaser and where the horse is.
"But all buyers will be expected to write to Brightwells and let them know where the horse is. If they do not do so Brightwells will follow-up with a phone call or letter to find out."
Mr Smith explained why Ascot had rejected raising its minimum sale price.
"Brightwells argued that if a horse doesn't sell for £500, the buyers would agree an unofficial sale behind closed doors later on," he said.
The move has been welcomed by the British Horseracing Authority. Media relations manager Paul Struthers told H&H: "We have no official figures on how many racehorses are slaughtered each year but we support any measure that would ensure healthy former racehorses enjoy a second career."
Jo White, World Horse Welfare director of campaigns, said: "It is definitely a positive step because it will provide tracking and traceability of horses coming out of racing, which undoubtedly could go on to do other things."
And Chris House, president elect of the British Equine Veterinary Association, praised Brightwells' move, but added: "Many of those racehorses going for human consumption in the UK are really those for whom it is the only outlet, due to injury."
This article was first published in Horse & Hound (4 December, '08)
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Post by icarus on Jun 2, 2011 20:18:32 GMT
Have they followed up on any of these or subsequent horses?
I do believe there was a thread on here discussing this article at the time?
Do those now that disagreed with this at the time agree or disagree?
I think many people have indeed written into H+H applauding there coverage, I know i did!
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Post by hs on Jun 2, 2011 20:18:57 GMT
For those of us who do not have H&H can you provide the gist of the letter? Were there any other letters? Excellent letter from Dr willyinson in this weeks H&H linked to Responsible Equine Breeding Society
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Post by victoria (highhill) on Jun 2, 2011 20:22:51 GMT
Have they followed up on any of these or subsequent horses? I do believe there was a thread on here discussing this article at the time? Do those now that disagreed with this at the time agree or disagree? I think many people have indeed written into H+H applauding there coverage, I know i did! well i havent heard of anyone being contacted after ascot sales to confirm where horses are and to be honest i cant think this would be very practical or possible to do.
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Post by icarus on Jun 2, 2011 20:31:41 GMT
It may or may not, think the point was to deter the meat man! If they had no intention of following it up they should not have realeased a statement saying so.
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kayjayem
Happy to help....a lot
Posts: 10,046
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Post by kayjayem on Jun 2, 2011 21:07:56 GMT
TBH Brightwells will say what they think people want to hear. What a load of bullsh1t Terry Court spouted about the Criccieth ponies have been sold to good homes! How the hell does he know?
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Post by perfect on Jun 2, 2011 21:13:02 GMT
****HORSE SCENE STATEMENT *** BREAKING NEWS - MR EVANS TO SIGN OVER PONIES TO WORLD HORSE WELFARE World Horse Welfare has been working together with Mr Evan Lloyd Evans regarding the recent concerns surrounding the welfare of horses at Criccieth Stud, North Wales. The international horse charity were made aware of the situation after receiving several calls from mem...bers of the public raising their concerns about the welfare of a horse, owned by Mr Evans, seen at Brightwells Auctioneers horse sale at Builth Wells on Saturday 14 May 2011. World Horse Welfare Field Officer Tony Evans visited Mr Evans at Criccieth Stud shortly after being made aware of the circumstances. A number of ponies have been now signed over to the charity and have been taken to one of their Rehabilitation and Rehoming Centres. Since then Tony and Mr Evans have been working together and Mr Evans has been assisting World Horse Welfare to establish the true facts surrounding the welfare of the horses at Criccieth Stud. World Horse Welfare and Mr Evans will continue to work together to resolve the current situation and prevent any further issues arising in the future. Field Officer Tony Evans said “We are pleased to be working closely with Mr Evans and that he has agreed to sign over some of his ponies to us. Unfortunately there have been many allegations on the internet such as social networking sites which at this time have proved to be unfounded. “It is great that members of the public are so passionate about the welfare of horses in the UK and overseas and we appreciate people contacting us. However, we must be sure that the true facts are disseminated. “World Horse Welfare sees many problems with overbreeding and overstocking nationwide and this situation highlights the issue.”See More I I would like to know in what sence have some allegations been unfoundedas WHAT I REPORTED ON HERE WAS VERY VERY TRUE WHEN I WAS AT THIS STUD ALMOST 2YRS AGO and i doubt very much that he had cleaned his act up.;
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Post by perfect on Jun 2, 2011 21:31:19 GMT
Also as i stated earlier on, there was a dead foal that had started to be eaton by whatever, it had obviously been dead a few days and just left there. Rot in Hell mr evans..
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