Judge who makes child cry?

[Deleted]

What would you think of a judge that made your child cry?

Not deliberately of course - but by telling him/her to do a totally different show to the one they have prepared and then telling them they were PUT DOWN for not listening and doing the NEW SHOW wrong

[merrymooxx]

OMG i would totaly loose my rag with them that is really not fair
has it happened to your child if u have the
if you dont mind me asking

[helle]

Personally I don't like it when judges asks for a set show, in childrens classes. Most of them spend weeks and weeks practicing their show and when they do it wrong they get completely lost. Better to let them do the show they know, most of them are short and sweet anyway. The first time my daughter was asked to walk away and trot back to the judge and then do her show, she found herself facing 'the wrong way', but managed to just 'turn her show around', but she was 11 at the time.
Personally I don't think anyone should be put down for not doing a set show, surely that has nothing to do with the pony's confirmation or way of going??
And I don't like ANYONE who make my child cry!!!

[armada]

How sad, you wonder why they judge childrens classes if thats the attitude. I always say 'have you got a nice show to do for me?' and then let them go off and do it when they proudly say 'yes'.
Bless them they need encouraging, not upsetting!

[nici]

I think there's 2 issues here. Firstly I don't think FR kids should be asked to do a set show. These classes have a low age limit and I think the judge should acknowledge that going into the ring can be daunting enough for little ones, remembering a show they've learned is another challenge, unlearning that and having to learn a new show on the spot is a step to far for a lot of FR children.

In open classes with no age limit I think it's fair enough for the judge to ask for a set show and to judge accordingly. However I do think they should make an allowance for younger riders and they should certainly be tactful when speaking to them. Cerys does some open classes and there's no way she'd be able to change her show - it took her a whole season of FR classes to learn it in the first place.

[Deleted]

Sam is 11. It was an open Unaffiliated class. He does have learning difficulties ADD, dyslexia, dyspraxia etc, but putting that aside......... how many children or adults would be able to remember a complete new set of instructions?

I have been asked, in the past to walk away, in a certain direction and trot back - then to go off and do my show. This rather rattled me, as I too ended up doing it all back to front and inside out, - but I managed it OK ish.

However, to cope with a total new set of instructions on where to canter, where to trot, where to change etc etc - take a pretty unflappable person to remember the whole lot?

He was pulled in first too, so all the others were told by the steward where they should go, but he didnt get that either

All in all, he lost all confidence and wandered around the arena looking totally lost and disheartened. He didnt even finish in the right direction, so couldnt salute the judge either

He sat slumped in the line up all sad and feeling a failure.

He was placed second and looked HAPPY AGAIN. Thinking that was good considering how badly he had got lost.

However the judge giving him his rossett and telling him to "listen to instructions better" was the final straw and the tears came

[lucynlizzysmum]

It's a difficult one. In workers they quite often even at cradle level will ask them to do a set show. I remember the first time Elizabeth was asked, she wasn't very old. Some children prefer to be told what to do, so I suppose its one of those things, but I'm sorry Sam was upset. that isn't what showing's about!

[Deleted]

Ahh well, if its normal I guess he will need to learn to try and adapt. However, being told off afterwards, isnt really necessary. A simple WELL TRIED, would have been fine

[heathers]

sounds like a bully to me for telling him off

[chloesmum]

How horrid lovepink - surely there are more important things and I have always thought people especially children respond better to praise than criticism, doesn't sound very encouraging to me.
Someone made my day yesterday after a sad week, a lady came up to me at our area show and said my daughter had judged her daughter at a show day before, which I hadn't gone too. Anyway this lady asked her daughter when she came out of the ring, how she had got on and she apparantly said 'oh the judge was lovely, a smiley lady!' because again I think she had been at the receiving end of a grumpy one!! Made me feel proud - I know when she started judging she was worried about giving advice incase it upset people so I know she always tries to give it in a positive way to help and encourage.
Good Luck to Sam at the next show and hope he gets a 'smiley one!'

[haggismarmite]

Oh dear poor Sam - unfortunately even in the FR classes you'd be surprised how often they get asked for a set show, particularly if they are on a strict timetable or it's a big class, but the way it was used to put him down was harsh. My daughter was really upset at a show yesterday as well, the first time she's ever been disheartened regardless of where she's come it is hard for them and the judge makes all the difference.

Never mind, to come second is still an amazing thing and I hope he can treasure it, chalk it up to experience and you and he can now be prepared in case it happens again, he 'll be more ready to ask for clearer instructions and it won't be such a shock for him.

[mandmfan]

I always think when the judge wants a set show being called in first is a disadvantage as you can't watch the others and you don't have time to work it out in your head and transfer it to the ring. I was in a large class once - the judge asked for a set show, the girl in first went wrong and after that we all did various (wrong) versions of it. At the end the very nice judge just laughed with us and said it was her fault for not making it clear enough. We were all quite young,I thought I had worked out the correct show but my pony had other idesa and mine was a complete disaster.

[network]

I actually think a set show in a childs class is a good idea and have seen it requested quite a few times, as long as its not a difficult show though, I watched a class once where the kids were asked to do their own short showing demonstrating walk, trot and canter on each rein, unfortunately one little girl took this literally and proceded to walk a full circle on one rein, trot a full circle on one rein, canter a full circle on one rein and then changed rein to repeat the whole thing again. As you can imagine this went on for ages and ages I am sorry lovepink that Sam was so upset though, as others have said there was no need to tell him in the way she did!

[bud86]

As long as they are having fun, they can walk/trot/canter on both reins what's the problem? I wouldn't be very happy, that won't help a childs confidence
I hope that your boy still wants to do it, tell him the judge was silly

xx

[GinaGeo]

I've had this too... It was my first show of last season, my first show in three years. I was riding a friend's Veteran and it was my first show on him, and we were just going for a practice really. After having been in an interesting Veteran qualifier in the morning, with dog's running through the ring in the go round etc... And rather unsound looking animals being placed, I'll say no more...

We decided that we were there and we'd do the exceeding 14hh not exceeding 15hh Show Hunter Pony. I was pulled in first, the judge then told me a set show. I'd been getting my Veteran show sorted for weeks, having been dabbling at dressage for the previous two years, I felt the need to learn my show piece by heart... which I had, the Veteran one, with no gallop ;D Anyway, she told me what she wanted, which I thought was interesting to say the least, and having only heard part of the instructions, due to the gale whistling through the showground, and the fact she was very pre-occupied hannging on to her hat ;D, I duly went off to do my show piece and made a royal mess of it... She then explained again to everybody else what she wanted, in a much louder, much clearer way, and off they went to do their show piece, correctly lol....

I was a mess when I came out the ring, having decided I'd let the pony down, "As if you'd asked me to repeat the instructions, and done the show correctly you'd have won the class".. I was devestated... BUT I have had to do set show's since in qualifying classes, so I'm glad I made the mistake in the practise class so to speak, and now I always, always ask if I need something verifying ;D
X

[Deleted]

May 23, 2011 19:30:58 GMT GinaGeo said:

I've had this too... It was my first show of last season, my first show in three years. I was riding a friend's Veteran and it was my first show on him, and we were just going for a practice really. After having been in an interesting Veteran qualifier in the morning, with dog's running through the ring in the go round etc... And rather unsound looking animals being placed, I'll say no more...

We decided that we were there and we'd do the exceeding 14hh not exceeding 15hh Show Hunter Pony. I was pulled in first, the judge then told me a set show. I'd been getting my Veteran show sorted for weeks, having been dabbling at dressage for the previous two years, I felt the need to learn my show piece by heart... which I had, the Veteran one, with no gallop ;D Anyway, she told me what she wanted, which I thought was interesting to say the least, and having only heard part of the instructions, due to the gale whistling through the showground, and the fact she was very pre-occupied hannging on to her hat ;D, I duly went off to do my show piece and made a royal mess of it... She then explained again to everybody else what she wanted, in a much louder, much clearer way, and off they went to do their show piece, correctly lol....

I was a mess when I came out the ring, having decided I'd let the pony down, "As if you'd asked me to repeat the instructions, and done the show correctly you'd have won the class".. I was devestated... BUT I have had to do set show's since in qualifying classes, so I'm glad I made the mistake in the practise class so to speak, and now I always, always ask if I need something verifying ;D
X

Thank you I will show this to Sam and hope that he can take inspiration from it.

we had lots of people come up to us at the show and say "we have seen you at the last 5 shows.....your pony is so beautiful and so well behaved, she never puts a foot wrong"......

Very true and makes us remember how lucky we are to have her, despite the judges harsh comments

[armada]

I think where youngsters are concerned, if as a judge you are asking for a set show, then yes the first may not have any time to think it through properly and calmly before being called out, so you really should make the time to talk to them, make sure they are confident and sure of what you are asking and ensure your steward is helping to make sure the others are quite clear on what is required in the line up.
As I said before I dont ask for this, but have stewarded for judges that do, and really try to help the young'uns. A happy child = a happy parent and really thats what I aim for, even the lead-reins this weekend who got the pinks and purples were smiling and waving their rosettes because I found something kind and encouraging to say to everyone, regardless of the lack of suitability of pony or total hash made of their studiously practised show.
On Saturday, in every class, from lead-rein to adults, my steward stood by and spoke to every competitor and if they had concerns on any count, helped out as best she could, because I asked her to do so, it helps the class run so much more smoothly and the lost souls who are also very nervous as a rule, get an idea of what I really want. I did have the 'that sounds very nice indeed, but you really dont need to show me a figure of eight in walk' conversation with at least one person in each class., but I did'nt have to once call out thank you, would you like to come in now.

[nici]

If the judge does ask for a set show, it should be a simple one, and the judge should make sure that the first person to go really does know what they're going to do - after all they will be setting the example that the rest of the class will be watching an learning from.

The judge won't know about Sam's learning difficulties or about his traumatic year, but should treat ALL competitors with respect. If the first competitor doesn't get the show right, they should acknowledge, as mentioned in another post, that perhaps it was them that didn't explain it clearly enough. It is clearly wrong to tell any competitor off for "Not listening", especially when that competitor is a child. There's a difference between not listening and not understanding, and if the competitor doesn't understand, then it's the judge's responsibility.

Cerys has been in a few open classes where there's a set show. She tends to ignore the set show and do her own show, because she's learned it and feels confident doing it. She may have dropped places for doing it, but I prefer that she's comfortable in the ring. I would be cross if she was told off about it though - I would expect the judge to explain that she didn't do quite what was asked, in the right order / place. We've found most judges to be sympathetic, but it helps that Cerys is so obviously a young child (7). However even if the judge thought Sam was older than his real age because he is so tall, there's no excuse for rudeness



Respect works both ways even - or maybe especially - with children.

[Deleted]

Every single person in the class did a totally different show!!! Obviously no-one understood...

The girl who won, did the show she did, looking totally unflustered and professional throughout her show - so clearly deserved to win. Whether she did what the judge wanted - who knows?

I guess we have to learn a lesson from this and be prepared to look unflustered if the judge asks for something different.

Kind words whilst handing out the rossetts, go a long way, regardless of what happened during the class though .

[nici]

Absolutely LP and Tilly. Judges should be encouraging the younger generation, not telling them off!!! And if every rider performed a different show, the judge was obviously incapable of communicating effectively.

I hope Sam is not put off by this experience, but is willing to carry on showing off his beautiful pony

[starlight]

It is sometime unclear what they want the little ones to do, last week at Ayr ( our first ever county show) Amy got pulled in first and we were asked to do a little show so we walked away trotted back and then did "half" figure of eight( this is what we practice at home). Imagine my dismay when everyone else went and did a full figure of eight.!!!

however still came first so over the moon both she and the pony went great.

LP sorry Sam was upset there is no need for comments like that xxx

[ponymum]

Poor Sam I think fault does lie with the judge, and I imagine with candy being 143cm , they "assumed" sam is older than he actually is....which is why when judging children I ask them all how old they are and how long they have been riding. Also , if I ask for a set show, I explain it to every child and ask them before they set off IF they know the show or did they need me to explain it again...
Tell Sam not to feel too bad , he's doing really well, but expect more set shows, we get alot in bsps xxxx

[cathor45]

Poor Sam, its nerve wracking in the ring but for it to go wrong is disheartening - for the judge to then "correct" him is rotten. I have seen this many times, with so many different versions of the set show being done - the first place kid really has their work cut out and the kids down the line are hell bent on copying the ones before them, sometimes with hilarious results. I always gringe when i see a judge giving a set show to the class - kids usually manage to not listen resulting in hand signals and whispered instructions from frantic parents!
Agrre with ponymum - the best kids judges are the ones who ask questions and praise afterwards.
One mad judge at our local show asked the kids in the Young Handlers class to perform what can only be described as a dressage test - four, yes four figure of eights with stops, starts, and allsorts at various points around the ring with a set number of walk& trot strides at certain points! The kids were brilliant and rose to the challenge but a few tanks of oxygen were needed later!

[pipandwill]

Its alot harder for smaller kids, who have just come off lead rein etc, and are told one show by there parents and another by the judge... :/

[Deleted]

I had a very polite chat with the judge - an hour after she had judged Sam. She said that normally, she tells the children the set show that she wants to see and they TOTALLY IGNORE her and do what they have practiced ..... LOL

She said - she did wonder if Sam was "ok" but it was too late to change things, when she realised he was upset

I know she didnt mean to upset him, its just hard being a protective mum of a "special" child, especially under our family circumstances.

I really think having heard how often this happens, that we need to toughen sam up and get him to expect this kind of thing and not fall apart.

[hs]

Or perhaps just mention to the steward before he goes into the ring that he has special needs and any critism of his performance/pony should be fed directly back to you rather than him so he does not get upset.

In an open class the children will normally be treated the same as adults and there will not be allowances in performance for being a child.

[rightrein92]

well LP all i can say is well done and fair play to sam for trying , im 19 and i would have gone off and done the show id practised at the end of the day its daunting enough having every set of eyes watchig you remembering the one you practised never mind thinking about a new show especially the young impressionable children that are still vulnerable. you have a very gutsey son x

[Elegance Halters]

Poor Sam
Like you say, preparing for being given a set show is probably best.
Practice a show scenario at home and give Sam different shows to do each time and soon it will be fun rather than daunting

[sageandonion]

I would send him to Pony Club camp and let him have a whale of a time rough and tumble with the other children (hopefully a few other boys) and then see if he might want to do something else like SJ or triathlon (no idea how to spell it) where he shall just have fun.

[Deleted]

May 25, 2011 8:29:11 GMT hs said:

Or perhaps just mention to the steward before he goes into the ring that he has special needs and any critism of his performance/pony should be fed directly back to you rather than him so he does not get upset.

In an open class the children will normally be treated the same as adults and there will not be allowances in performance for being a child.

Sam is always in open classes. His horse was broken and produced for several years, by Mathew Lawrence, so although she has been home produced by us for a year, I dont think it morally right to go back into home produced or Novice classes .

Sam also doesnt want to be treated differently if he can help it. Fair enough, her cant run her up in hand, as he cant run (severe dyspraxia), but normally he can compete with "normal" kids/adults on an even playing field, which makes him feel less inadequate.

Its a fine line between being an overprotective mum, of a child with special needs, to a mum who teaches her child to think on his feet and adapt to the occassion