Any Vets/Knowledgeable...... Updated

[JaysMum]

Tara my GSD x Collie type has been unwell since 13th July... but she was also sick a couple weeks before that. Main symptoms include sickness and diarrhoea along with some torn bowel lining and mucous. I starved her for 24hrs and put on a light diet... she's been on light diet (scrambled eggs, boiled chicken, fish and rice) since then, visited vet twice (and appointment made for Monday) had antibiotics after first visit, and another lot after last weeks visit.. now been told to stop these tabs as can make condition worse... (being treated for possible Colitis). She had two days this week when she looked fairly back to normal but was sick again last night, is now very sleepy and looks right fed up!

I know you can't do much without seeing her, but any extra advice would be great.

vet advice today was starve 24hrs, light diet phone if she gets worse

she has a gluten allergy and is on a gluten free kibble which she's been on for four years now without any problems - changing the kibble is not an option as nothing on market which suits her.

[m@m]

has the vet done any tests, or scans/xrays? to get to the bottom of it, im not a vet but you'd think they would rather find out the true cause of problem befor she goes down hill any more as your coming up for a month of on and off illness, i cant see by telling you to starve her again for a day its going to help much, hope you get her sorted, and am interested to find out what the problem is when you find out.

[JaysMum]

Thanks.. they think it's Colitis, and having read up on it, I kinda agree.. but the meds arent helping much. I too think it's time for bloods to be done atleast, then perhaps move on to x-rays depending on what the bloods say.. both visits to the vets she had temp taken and both times it was up (second reading was 103) the fact the woman said starve, light diet, phone if gets worse.....err... she's worse now...shes not in dire straits now and I dont want her to get to the stage where she is......

[JaysMum]

I will give her some food later.... but not the 24hrs again

[brindlerainbow]

Sometimes you need to go in and TELL the vets what you want them to do. I think to give an exact diagnosis they need to do bloods and x rays. If you dont think the vets are doing the best for the dog then I would get a second opinion

[suzee]

Some natural yoghurt should help her tummy,but agree it is no help to her poor girl to keep saying starve and then feed,is there any chance she has swallowed a foreign body?

[JaysMum]

Suzee - I have no idea..

she's just had some scrambled egg....

[auntiebarb]

My friend's Golden Retriever had similar symptoms, with similar vet response. The vet said you cannot help some dogs as they get older.

Luckily, I have another friend who has worked in animal nutrition for many years and I managed to get them together to talk face to face at a family party. My friend with the GR rang later rang to say how glad she was they had talked about the dog's problems, she had followed the nutritional advice and although the dog is thin now, it is happy and active. (Possibly it is the weight a vet would consider good, my dog is too fat I assume!

The advice was: feed only cooked potato, scrubbed, skin on, mashed with white fish, nothing else, no biscuits, no rice, no meat, definitely no bread. The other two dogs are on the same diet, and they also look very well. I assume some vitamin support is also given, but I have not asked about this.

My friend says that if you shop carefully, this regime is cheaper and more wholesome than buying dog feeds and she will continue while the old dog thrives. I do hope this can help your poor dog. It is worth a try.

[dazycutter]

I think before you do anything, you need a definitive diagnosis. We can all offer advice, but until you exactly know what you are treating, then your a little blind in the treatment.

It can be a multitude of things and I think you need bloods doing to rule out pancreatitis etc...

I feel for you so much as I have battled with a similar problem with one of my dogs.. The very best of luck, but get a diagnosis...

[JaysMum]

thanks dazycutter..... you're right i do need a diagnosis, and i hadn't thought of Pancreatitis

will update soon as i know

[dazycutter]

good luck Jays mum.. although it doesn't sound like your woofer is presenting with typical pancreatitis symptoms... they "pray" that is the most classic sign.. they stick their bum in the air and their front legs in the floor to "stretch" their back, but all are different, so once you know, you can then treat accordingly...

please keep us posted..

[JaysMum]

I dont think she's presenting any classic signs of anything in particular but then neither did i when I had a close to bursting infected appendix when i was 10, and again an abcess when i was 25.. both if burst would have killed me.

[squidgetmidget]

you've got to feel sorry for vets when all clients do is ask jo bloggs and try and self diagnose! sometimes the initial treatment doesnt work, but it may be a case of treating for the more likely problems first and if no improvement, looking at further causes. best thing to do is to keep returning to your re chk appointments so that your vet can get to the bottom of it. ?faecal test to rule out parasitic causes as the next step.

[JaysMum]

that's the problem with the vets... they don't give out re-check appt..... only told to phone back if it gets worse... other than that they don't really want to know.... it's like trying to get blood out a stone...

[JaysMum]

Aug 8, 2011 11:35:04 GMT squidgetmidget said:

you've got to feel sorry for vets when all clients do is ask jo bloggs and try and self diagnose!

I'm not trying to self diagnose..i'm asking for experiences and other information/questions to ask the vet. I've been down the route starve for 24hrs and then feed a light diet for 7 - 10 days before bothering the vet, i was told this was the right thing to do... but the more the meds don't work, dog gets worse then i get told to do the starving and light diet again then phone if it worsens is a bit much.. I'd already told her dog has been unwell for nearly 6 weeks... and she blatantly ignored me, until i pointed it out again.

I agree that

sometimes the initial treatment doesnt work, but it may be a case of treating for the more likely problems first and if no improvement, looking at further causes as the next step.

I've never seen an animal behave like her... she's obviously unwell, not herself.... has intermittent problems keeping down the light diet while normal food sends her running to the loo at silly o'clock in the small hours, yet she's more than happy to play ball, with other dogs, as much as she is happy to sleep all day it doesnt sound like she's terribly ill does it... with the added high temp

[JaysMum]

well got another weeks worth of hocus pocus meds.... 1 bottle of kaogel, 1 bottle of liquid wormer for three days and steroids..... with instructions to find another brand of gluten free food or use Hills diet which has gluten in it and she can't eat..... made another appt for next thurs (18th) which he didnt want to do, but i said i can always cancel it if not needed - would rather do that than try the phone line which is always engaged or doesnt get answered

watch this space..... am not holding out any hope

[brindlerainbow]

You need to change vets!!!! My vets always make follow up appointments and will discuss at length the options for the animal and will also suggest referalls if they think its neccessary. I wouldnt stand for being fobbed off

[JaysMum]

I can't change vets....... call me whatever you want, but I use the PDSA... I cannot afford a private vet.. otherwise I would use one. they aren't bad vets.... just like to play God with you

[abbi789]

I can tell you what worked for my weimeraner that has had colitis. She had very similar symptons and the only thing that worked for her was feeding her very small portions of chicken and rice every 3 hours. persevere with one food. dont mix them and when i say small amount i mean around 2 tablespoons until she is able to keep it down and go to the toilet more normally(then increase slowly). always plenty of water available and possibly if she is very tired and fed up add a little sugar in the water to help her recover. This worked for my girl, i hope yours feels better soon

Sam

[piaffe]

my cavalier was just the samewhen I first got him from a rescue centre. I have an excellent vet who prescribed medication to settle his stomach and stop his diarrhoea. Which was by this point blood and mucous. We only fed him hills wd for 2 weeeks which is expensive at 2 pounds a tin but is worth it for a healthy dog. We then started to mix in James well be loved (white fish and rice.kibble) Again not cheap but has the desired result. He has no other food except this . Even eating a small amount of grass can set him off. So then it's back on the Wd for a few days. He has been happy and healthy for the last 18 months on this strict diet. The amount of dogs with food allergies now is massive due the poor quality of the ingredients and addatives in main stream dog foods.

[JaysMum]

thanks all..... I'm going to try scrambled eggs and her normal kibble (Macks Mix from Glasgow, similar to Burns but cheaper) have had her on JWB but she loses weight on it and won't eat Burns.

I'm also going to stop for the time being the wet meat (Natures Menu) as it's quite rich..... I don't mean stop as she hasnt had it for a few weeks now, but im not going to reintro it into her diet until i feel she's ready..so far so good.....

[squidgetmidget]

typical case of you only get what you pay for then. you may feel like they play god but lets be fair, they are providing you with FREE treatment.

[sarahp]

Mine have been fed on straight Burns for years now and I swear by it. When we got ridiculous rescue dog from the pound he looked sort of manky, starey coat and half shut eyes etc (fair enough, they have to feed cheap food I suppose) but goodness how he blossomed on the Burns. Sorry, this doesn't help you JM, I hope your dog gets diagnosed and you can work out what diet will suit.

[PennyP4]

Aug 9, 2011 12:15:30 GMT squidgetmidget said:

typical case of you only get what you pay for then. you may feel like they play god but lets be fair, they are providing you with FREE treatment.

HARSH COMMENTS!

It may be a reduced cost service but they are qualified vet so surly should provide the same standard of care as private vets.

Personally, this is why I have all my woofers insured, vets bills are costly, find a good one and treasure them!

I really hope your get your pooch sorted, it's horrid to see and animal suffer.

[JaysMum]

Had my poorly cat with them too before he died 10 years ago... they were great - no reason to get different treatment from them than from private vets just because it's a charity....... they are still as qualified... and to say that says to me, you've never had been unfortunate enough to need their service which is usually fabulous...... it's very frustrating to keep going like this with a sick animal knowing full well your animal cannot tell you where it hurts.

incidently I PAY for my dog's treatment - up front, not after the visit as is what most private vets do.

[JaysMum]

1 full day of scrambled eggs and handful of own dry kibble... no nasty side effects... could she be on the mend at last?

[piaffe]

hopefully, good luck

[wiccaweys]

Only just caught up with this, so hopefully she is well on the mend.

For settling poorly tummies, dogs that need a light diet, and dogs with major runs etc, the very best thing for them is mashed potato and white fish (coley portion is great). Rice can be too gloopy for poorly tummies and can make them bloat out. Some dogs that have a Wheat & Gluten allergy struggle to tolerate rice too.

If you have a Pets At Home near you, their Wainwrights varieties are all Wheat & Gluten free and they do an excellent Salmon & Potato dried food, and a White Fish & Potato dried food.

www.petsathome.com/shop/wainwright-s-adult-complete-dog-food-with-salmon-and-potato-2kg-and-15kg-12798

They are also doing a new wet food which we have trialled with excellent results with some of the rescue dogs that have super sensitive tums. They do a few varieties, this takes you to a link for one of them, but it gives you an idea.

www.petsathome.com/shop/deli-mouth-watering-fish-and-rice-pate-dog-food-tray-395gm-42646?DisplayProductList=true&ref1=2|Price|0+%3C%3D++%3C%3D+4.99&ref2=1|Brand-|Deli

Another good place for W&G free food, at a really good price is CSJ dog food. The website is: www.csjk9.com

We had a collie girl who was severely W&G allergic, it affected her temperament and coat, as well as her tummy. It took us ages to sort her out, and even on a W&G free food she would have set backs once she was in a foster home. We couldn't understand it as she'd really got on an even keep with us, and it was only really going through things with the fosterer and making them keep a complete diary of her day that we found out his wife was slipping her a quarter of a bonio at bedtime. That was enough to completely screw up her system, although the wife didn't realise it. Its probably a pointless question, but no-one else in the family is slipping her anything are they?

With regards to the vets. Whether it is the PDSA or not, they have a duty of care to their patients and the owners. If you are not happy with what is happening, then make a noise about it. You are within your rights to insist on the right care for your dog. If your dog isn't right, your dog isn't right - you live with her, so you know that. The vet only sees them for 5 mins at a time and has to make a snap judgement and diagnosis based on the dog in front of them and the information the owner is given them. They make mistakes or miss something sometimes, they are only human. You have to be forceful (in a polite way) and insist that more is done and considered if you think it is needed.

If you want anyone to talk to, feel free to give us a call and I can go through some more ideas, nutrition wise and vet wise if you need it.
Tel: [phone] (Wiccaweys Rescued Border Collies)

Good luck.

[JaysMum]

wiccaweys that's brilliant advice thanks very much...

However.. Tara has been Gluten sensitive all her life and since I've had her (4yrs) I've had her on a dry mix that comes from Glasgow, have researched and researched and it's a minefield lol but eventually met this bloke at a fun dog show/rodeo event (run by Boxer rescue) at a stall they had there.... honestly got to say never looked back since starting this dry.... I was also giving her Nature's Menu wet in the dry so she'd eat it... Now thinking that perhaps the wet is a bit rich? will keep her off it for the time being.

with regards to wainwrights - unfortunetly for her she cannot eat this, as it makes her itchy (the gluten intolerence makes her itchy and she would have 7 - 10 skin infections a year through just scratching herself silly, this has now stopped) I don't know why WW makes her itchy but it does

had her on JWB for a while too when i was really skint, and had to feed more to keep her weight on...

Just seen your question... No I live alone with her and two cats. I suspect she may have eaten something when out.. will be buying a cage muzzle to stop this from happening again.

here's the link to the Macks Mix she's on

www.discountpetsupplies.co.uk/macksmix.htm

[wiccaweys]

Aug 11, 2011 9:11:32 GMT JaysMum said:

I was also giving her Nature's Menu wet in the dry so she'd eat it... Now thinking that perhaps the wet is a bit rich? will keep her off it for the time being.

Yes, defintately. Give her the dried food alone, or swop her on to the meat alone. When you give her both together you double up on the amount of protein going into her and that can have a horrendous effect on tummies as well as making some dogs more hyper or edgey.