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Post by dozydeb on Aug 8, 2011 12:00:53 GMT
While at a show in a welsh A and B class this weekend.
The judge admitted that she found all the classes very hard to judge as she couldnt tell the difference between a Welsh Section A and a Welsh Section B. It was rather eye opening and surely if you have accepted the judging position then you should at least know what you are judging!!!!!Just wondered if anyone else had experienced qualified judges admitting their lack of knowledge on pony/horse breeds??
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bud86
Junior Member
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Post by bud86 on Aug 10, 2011 7:56:03 GMT
Atleast they didn't put a lame pony 3rd out of 5!!! Knowing full well the pony was lame the owner (thinks she's an amazing RI) put it in the class anyway!
Shocking.....
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Post by quinny on Aug 11, 2011 11:40:42 GMT
I was in a coloured class once, the judge stood infront of us all and said 'well you lot all look the same'. There was piebalds palominos, appalosas and hogged cobs!!! She then went on to tell us she was a tailor and she wanted to cut all the lose ends on the traditionals.
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Post by network on Aug 11, 2011 11:47:20 GMT
I have been in a few veteran classes where the judge has said that they all look so good that she cant decide so just places them all in age order, eldest down to the youngest  |
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Post by copperfields on Aug 11, 2011 11:54:30 GMT
I had some thing very similar recently in a C and D class where the judge had to ask each of us if our horse was a C or a D!
On the flip side, I recently had the next competitor down the line from me ask why she was placed below them two (whilst looking right down her nose at us top two). The judge just simply said "because those horses are better than yours!" he he we had to chuckle at the look on her face.
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Post by brt on Aug 11, 2011 12:19:18 GMT
I once had a judge tell me that i shouldn't show my mare in a white halter as that was only for welsh ponies. it was a local show and a welsh class and She's a section A !!!!!!!!!!
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smee
Junior Member
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Post by smee on Aug 12, 2011 17:55:30 GMT
had that recently, firstly judge asked if my C was a C or a D, she is a very typey medal winning C. I then showed my A and she asked if she was an A or a B as 'its hard to tell' , sorry love not when my A looks how she does, a B she will never be  I did remain polite (just about ) |
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Post by bowditchblobs on Aug 12, 2011 18:13:42 GMT
Love it!!!!
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Post by ladywell on Aug 12, 2011 20:09:08 GMT
Oh my goodness!! I was told, by an old horseman, a long time ago - when judging never ask a question and the only comments you make should be constructive ones!  |
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Post by 123lauren098 on Aug 12, 2011 20:23:24 GMT
i was at an agricultural show the other day, and the judge (who'd apparently judged M&M's at HOYS before) asked me what breed my pony (new forest) was! this was in a M&M large breeds class excluding fells and dales. Hes a very good stamp of new forest, and has good breeding.
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Post by fmcallan on Aug 12, 2011 20:47:58 GMT
I think judges need to stick to there breed when judging. i myself have judged many breeds. on the whole i find most judges just pull out the person on the end of the rope.
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Post by CarolineNelson on Aug 13, 2011 7:28:30 GMT
I think judges need to stick to there breed when judging. i myself have judged many breeds. on the whole i find most judges just pull out the person on the end of the rope. I hope I'm not alone in being an honest judge and personally, I find that comment quite insulting. Indeed, I very rarely look at this particular column and I'm only here today - as most unfortunately we should be running a super show which was abandoned two days ago due to waterlogged ground. Be thankful that people make the effort for you to have shows to go to. CMN |
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Post by Hairy Traditional cobs on Aug 18, 2011 15:59:48 GMT
very well said shsstablemanager ! |
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Post by arabellaphoenix on Aug 18, 2011 16:03:57 GMT
Very similar to above, I did a veteran class recently with only 3 of us in, judge said as they are all in such good condition and there is only 3 of you I might as well put you in age order... :-) Which meant we were 3rd... I didn't mind though as my little girl had worked very hard that day and he did comment on how well she moved and how well turned out she was :-)
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Post by helle on Aug 20, 2011 12:31:18 GMT
I don't quite understand the problem with askin if your pony is a C or a D, except from the fact that it shouldn't matter? The breed description on WPCS is the same, except from height. In a C&D class it can often be difficult with the ones that are 'around 13.2 mark' to tell. Our C is actually a re-registred D due to the fact that she never made the height and to be honest I don't mind if the judge thinks she is a D or a C.....
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Post by storr on Aug 20, 2011 19:35:50 GMT
I don't quite understand the problem with askin if your pony is a C or a D, except from the fact that it shouldn't matter? The breed description on WPCS is the same, except from height. In a C&D class it can often be difficult with the ones that are 'around 13.2 mark' to tell. Our C is actually a re-registred D due to the fact that she never made the height and to be honest I don't mind if the judge thinks she is a D or a C..... I cant agree with that comment. I have both Cs and Ds and they are completely different types, never mind of their height. |
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sarahp
Happy to help
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Post by sarahp on Aug 20, 2011 22:17:22 GMT
Agreed helle. storr - I suggest you go and read the proper, full length breed descriptions, they should be on the WPCS website, and you will see that they are exactly the same as helle says, and share bloodlines. There are varying types in both sections, maybe you've just extremes in both!
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dazycutter
Happy to help
The reason a dog has so many friends is that he wags his tail instead of his Tongue.
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Post by dazycutter on Aug 21, 2011 8:54:05 GMT
you have to laugh at some of the comments really.... it is what makes showing such fun....
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Post by storr on Aug 21, 2011 12:58:30 GMT
Agreed helle. storr - I suggest you go and read the proper, full length breed descriptions, they should be on the WPCS website, and you will see that they are exactly the same as helle says, and share bloodlines. There are varying types in both sections, maybe you've just extremes in both! Im quite aware of the breed descriptions. But Cs should not be just small Ds. Im sure there was a big discussion over this a couple of years ago where alot of the judges were commenting on breeders of Cs breeding ponies like small cobs, (Ds). |
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sarahp
Happy to help
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Post by sarahp on Aug 21, 2011 15:10:44 GMT
No reason why not - that's just conforming to the breed description, which is the official defining description of each section. It used to be said that if you saw photos of an A, C and D with nothing to indicate the scale you shouldn't be able to tell which was from which section. Bs of course are different with the influx of Eastern bloodlines.
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Post by fmm on Aug 22, 2011 6:42:24 GMT
While at a show in a welsh A and B class this weekend. The judge admitted that she found all the classes very hard to judge as she couldnt tell the difference between a Welsh Section A and a Welsh Section B. It was rather eye opening and surely if you have accepted the judging position then you should at least know what you are judging!!!!!Just wondered if anyone else had experienced qualified judges admitting their lack of knowledge on pony/horse breeds?? If she could not TELL the difference (as you stated) between the As and Bs, then that is down to the quality of exhibit in front of her. If she did not KNOW the difference between the As and Bs then that is not helpful if you are judging a Welsh class. |
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mpc
Junior Member
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Post by mpc on Aug 22, 2011 9:57:45 GMT
I think judges need to stick to there breed when judging. i myself have judged many breeds. on the whole i find most judges just pull out the person on the end of the rope. I'm taking it from your comment that you don't bother showing unless you know the judge then?? Comments like this make me wonder why judges bother at all! |
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mpc
Junior Member
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Post by mpc on Aug 22, 2011 10:00:22 GMT
No reason why not - that's just conforming to the breed description, which is the official defining description of each section. It used to be said that if you saw photos of an A, C and D with nothing to indicate the scale you shouldn't be able to tell which was from which section. Bs of course are different with the influx of Eastern bloodlines. Plenty of "Eastern blood" in section A's Sarah and plenty of section A blood in section B too!! |
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sarahp
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Post by sarahp on Aug 22, 2011 11:39:03 GMT
I was obviously condensing, no point going into a long lecture on breed history here - I thought! The current Sec B was defined in the 1930s to provide a taller child's riding pony than the A but not as chunky as what is now the C, hence the use of lighter type blood. Before that there was basically a continuum of type embracing what is today's A, C and D, yes of course with lots of bits of blood from all sorts of stuff in too prior to the advent of the studbooks in the beginning of the 20th C - was it 1902 without looking it up? And with the possible inclusion of FS stock of unknown breeding purely on inspection too for some time after that. Before the WPCS, studbooks and the defining of separate sections any breeder used the stallion they thought most likely to give them the result they wanted.
Back to the Bs, the main components, I say carefully, were A and Eastern but there were bits of cob too, as there are in As, and As in Cs and Ds, there wasn't the same emphasis on keeping the sections separate as there seems to be now.
As an example of the mixing of section bloodlines, have a look at the pedigree of the great Menai Fury, born in 1963 when very few Cs were left after WWII. He was by an A ex a C mare, Menai Ceridwen who was by a D ex Menai Queen Bee (born 1937) who was herself A x D. Queen Bee had five foals in the latter part of her life - two by the D Caradog Llwyd who were the D Menai Ceredig (1955) and the C Menai Ceridwen (1953), the C Llanarth Carel (1959) by a C and two Bs, Menai Shooting Star and Super Star, by an A. Information from Dr Wynne and allbreeds.
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