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Post by Glen Mitchener nli on Jun 10, 2007 20:04:34 GMT
Can I ask everyone's opinion please? (I might regret saying that I realise!!!!!) What do people feel about the way in which some Welsh cob people bang and rattle things outside the ring whilst their animal is being shown? We were out a show today where there were 3 people outside of the ring, one with a plastic bag, one with a schooling whip banging on the side of the indoor school and one generally making noises and supervising the other two!
The upshot of this was that at the end, when their cob won the class (I thought it was a lovely moving cob that deserved it by the way), they made so much of a fracas outside of the ring that it turned into utter chaos, resulting in a mare getting loose and a boy that was stewarding being pinned against a wall by another kicking cob, missing him by inches.
I was pretty outraged by the whole thing and promptly told the people involved what I thought (which is out of character for me!). Their response was that this was how Welshies are shown, which is fine as far as I'm concerned if you're showing at a Welsh show, and not in an NPS mixed M&M class...
Also, as we had the animal that was 2nd to them they added 'was is cause you never won?', which was definitely not the case as I liked their cob and it was a good class that we were pleased to come 2nd in.
Does anybody know what the NPS thinks about this kind of thing?
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Post by Guestless on Jun 10, 2007 20:12:12 GMT
I hate that kind of dangerous behaviour. I'm suprised it hasn't resulted in very serious accidents to be honest - and I put it on a par with the behaviour of the lad at Appleby that resulted in the horse drowning.
IMO show rules include "no outside interference" and behaviour such as you describe is in contravention of that rule.
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Post by Welsh Cob Rider on Jun 10, 2007 20:56:17 GMT
This is how SOME welshies are shown - but in my opinion (as a welsh showing person, both in hand & ridden) I think it is absolutely appaulling. It is dangerous to both people and horses, it can really upset young or sensitive horses. And the excuses that it is 'how welshies are shown' is just pathetic (and not true in the majority either).
I had this happen to me when I was riding a 4yr old in the ring, and it really freaked him out. Fortunately no-one was physically hurt - however I easily could have been if I had fallen off, and the poor horse was very upset by it. Next time I went in an indoor school he flatly refused to go near the gallery where the people were sitting, and was scared stiff.
*steps off soap box*
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Post by johnwayne on Jun 10, 2007 21:06:17 GMT
We Gossiped the hind-legs off this one last season too, but I'm glad that it's on the agenda again. To me, outside interference should never be permitted, and the behaviour described is definitely outside interference, therefore it should not be permitted. It is unsafe, unsporting, unfriendly, and uncannily like cheating. IMO. If this happened at a dog show, the exhibitor would get slung out of the ring PDQ. If us gossiping about it on here brings the practice to the attention of the powers that be, all well and good.
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Post by Glen Mitchener on Jun 10, 2007 21:25:36 GMT
Sorry if I sounded like I meant all Welsh fans show in this way, I've shown many Welshies myself in the past too and I didn't mean that everyone does this!
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Post by Guestless on Jun 10, 2007 21:56:01 GMT
I think "in days gone by" most welsh people did show them like that, but times change and exhibitors needs to be prepared to move with them. It's like those that still insist on keeping their ponies in a dark stable 24/7 - it ain't nice and it ain't necessary!
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Post by veryold on Jun 11, 2007 6:51:33 GMT
I think it resulted in Welsh Cob classes being cut out at some shows in the past. I think it was why there were no classes at Surrey County for many years. As a rider I also wonder if it stops good looking youngstock going on to a ridden career. If they have always been chased up when they go into the ring, it must make it very difficult to convince them to stay calm and relaxed under saddle. It is surprising that, when everyone complains about burgeoning health and safety and litigation issues, that this isn't being banned now.
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Post by lolly on Jun 11, 2007 8:17:28 GMT
I think its discusting. Its a certain group of people who should know flipping better. If I was the judge I would throw them out for it, plain and simple, then they would soon stop.
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Post by geegee69 on Jun 11, 2007 8:25:59 GMT
I totally agree it turns a show class into a circus. It is totally unacceptable and dangerous to other competitors. The competitors who behave in this manner should be thrown out of the class. From a health and safety issue shows need to take action on this.
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Post by nappies on Jun 11, 2007 9:09:00 GMT
I totally agree, something should be done to stop this dangerous practice esp at NPS shows etc. Also what concerns me is when they come flying into the ring at a flat out cob trot. This may be ok for the Royal Welsh but not for an NPS mixed class! It's just a case of respect for other competitors. I also agree with comment about losing out on good looking youngsters from future ridden classes.
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Post by daffodil on Jun 11, 2007 9:42:50 GMT
I was told off by a steward at a show this year when I told my daughter, very discreetly from the ringside, to shorten her reins!!
The stewards or organizers of the show should have stopped this, it could have been very dangerous, had any one been hurt there would have been an enormous outcry, this shoudl not be allowed, especially in a mixed class, do it at a WPCS if you must, but not, at an open one
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Post by I hate bags on Jun 11, 2007 11:12:03 GMT
I'm glad this has been bought up again. I was at a show yestrday with my young fell colt, who hasn't been the easiest pony to do and we have resulted in taking him off the box for an hour when we get to the show to get him to relax, which has been working and he was settled up until yesterday when we were standing calmly taking in the scenery and a stupid woman came up to us waving a plastic bag behind a very wound up Welsh Cob stallion, which was a lovely animal. My fell then attempted to jump the ropes into the ring and she still carried on. It was only when I shouted at her to stop as this is no way to carry on when there are babies about and she shouted that her cob wasn't a baby. In my eyes she had no regard for any other animal that was near her whilst she was making such an exhibition of herself!!
The cob didn't win it came 3rd out of 4 - I think it was too wound up to show itself off by the time it got into the ring - it just wanted to attack everything around it.
This sort of behaviour needs banning.
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Post by daffodil on Jun 11, 2007 11:31:12 GMT
Just as a matter of interest, where were these shows?
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Post by tell us on Jun 11, 2007 16:05:10 GMT
Come on glen tell us who was it name and shame them this may put a stop to it
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Post by Welsh Cob Rider on Jun 11, 2007 17:04:20 GMT
Actually no - why should this happen at ANY show ?! My welsh cob baby just as sensitive as any other breed, and I dont want to have to stop going to welsh shows for fear of my own safety and the education and peace of mind of my pony.
Grrrrr at those d**n people who insist on doing this !!!
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Post by Glen Mitchener on Jun 11, 2007 17:22:03 GMT
To be honest I don't know who the people were, I've seen them before but I don't know their names and as I think I took the issue up with them at the time, I don't need to re-grill them over it on here personally. Interestingly, after a night's sleep and on reflection I feel more strongly about it now... I was thinking, imagine if, each of the 12 or so entries in the class had had 'additional' handlers outside the ring, how chaotic would that have been?
What I would do in the future is to visit the secretary's tent should they look likely to be in any class that we're in at future show, just to request that they are asked not to act in the same way...
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Post by armada on Jun 11, 2007 17:47:37 GMT
earlier this year, I was showing our two year old partbred, I'd spent ages getting him settled and then was told our class would run late as they were going to use the whole ring to run the cobs. This was indoors, so we waited outside away from the busy car park and the riddens in the other indoor school. The racket that emanated from inside the other arena whist the cobs were being run was horrific. All my good work went down the pan, he freaked out I nearly ended up in the mud and even when we'd done our class, they still had the cobs by the exit, whizzing around snorting and farting completely oblivious to everyone else around them. I was grateful they had been sensible to hold our class back but the resulting noise and melee outside afterwards was just appalling. I really do love to see the cobs, but they do need to be made aware that they are'nt the only people on the showground, and that outside influence is neither neccesary or safe.
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Post by shocked on Jun 11, 2007 18:10:35 GMT
Have to say it was VERY dangerous at EANPS show yesterday as the section D ring was in front of the stalls and food wagon. Loads of kids and spectators about and these silly people were winding their D stallions and colts up outside the ring. Majorly dangerous!!
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Post by geegee69 on Jun 11, 2007 18:20:13 GMT
The show was Lionheart at Crofton, Hampshire. The cob was being handled by Nick Snelling.
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Post by defoNo on Jun 11, 2007 18:30:12 GMT
I must say i agree with all comments, it is unacceptable behavior that belongs in the dark ages...... why do judges permit ponies having the fear of god rattled into them just to make them trot its both Cruel & Dangerous Three Counties last year was awash with ring side bottle rattlers so come show secretaries maybe its time wording was put in show schedules banning this outside interference and judges penalizing the offenders
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Post by nappies on Jun 11, 2007 18:42:47 GMT
Have to say never heard of the show or this person. But thank you for actually stating who and where involved- very refreshing. Perhaps naming and shaming will make people think twice before acting so dangerously again. Although am a great fan of the welshies- their handlers have a very cavalier attitude to the way they sometimes handle these ponies.
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Post by Eastender on Jun 11, 2007 19:04:34 GMT
I thought Nick Snelling just built the worker courses! didnt realise he had cobs too!
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Post by frank owner on Jun 11, 2007 21:34:32 GMT
The show was Lionheart at Crofton, Hampshire. The cob was handled by Nick Snelling. The mare may have been handled by nick snelling as he stepped in at the last second for the owners nick had no controll on what happens out side the ring there were no conplaints made on the day if any one felt the owners were out of order they should have informed the secretary.
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Post by Glen Mitchener on Jun 11, 2007 22:30:29 GMT
I didn't intend to raise this issue as a way of 'naming and shaming' anyone. Everybody has their ways of doing things and everybody deserves a chance to air their side of a story, which can't happen on here if the person in question is not involved in the discussion! As I said before, I have no idea who the people were and I did raise my issue with them directly at the time, which in my opinion is better than trying to get someone into trouble by telling tales on them to the secretary. However, having said that, the secretary's/entry area at the show in question was directly next to the entrance to the ring and an official of the show was involved in the discussion as well, so they would have been well aware of the situation.
All I'm asking for is that people that favour this method of showing think about the other entries in the class in future and that they consider if it is allowed/acceptable behaviour... I think that the cob would have won the class regardless of the methods used and the handler appeared experienced enough to get the best out of her without outside influence.
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Post by nappies on Jun 12, 2007 12:08:28 GMT
Just a thought? Would these people who wind up their cobs, be so cool with it, if they had a child in the next ring on a LR/FR pony and some one else made a racket to get their cob going and the LR pony bolted, causing the child to fall off??? I expect there'd be hell to pay? And a lot of these cob owners do have smaller children who ride.
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Post by non welsh person on Jun 12, 2007 12:45:11 GMT
We went to the first Lionheart show to do the M&M in-hand - small breeds were fine but the large breeds was just as you describe it in your post - I think there were 18 in the class and 15 were welsh Ds - there were 2 foresters and our Connie - all the welshs were run in with loads of hoo-ha - our Connie walked in as did the foresters - they looked so different. Our Connie came 5th - still quietly - but she didn't do the lap of honour as she would have been mown down!!
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Post by what would you do on Jun 12, 2007 13:14:45 GMT
Is showing not all about showing the best of your animaL?? Therefor if a welshie shows better from being wound up then wind them up!!!!!! There are natives which would look absolutely stupid being wound up as it just isn't their way of going but a welshie should be flashed. Anyone who has experienced the main arena at the Royal welsh with a senior stallion will appreciate what I mean.
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Post by Guestless on Jun 12, 2007 14:49:05 GMT
Is showing not all about showing the best of your animaL?? Of course it is, but not at the expense of every other horse in the arena! IMO Welshies are flashy movers so they shouldn't need to wound up or kept in dark stables 24/7. There are plenty of people who manage to do extremely well with their welshies without causing a riot in the ring!
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Post by johnwayne on Jun 12, 2007 14:56:39 GMT
It's all about you showing the best of your pony, not someone outside the ring.
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Post by ignorant on Jun 12, 2007 15:03:12 GMT
what would you do i hope the next time the welsh cobs are scared out of there wits they trample you in the process because people like you are a disgrace
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