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Post by Bits on Jun 12, 2007 11:19:50 GMT
I have notice at a few shows this year that some people have been using the wilkie bit upside down? Also the wilkie is now being used as part of a double giving double poll pressure. Is this allowed?? what do you think?
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Post by french on Jun 12, 2007 11:31:50 GMT
When I see a horse with a wilkie and a weymouth I just think it must be badly schooled. If you need that much poll pressure to get it's head down then why are you showing it if it is so badly schooled!!!!!
Maybe used upside down it gives it more leverage?
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Post by Bits on Jun 12, 2007 11:39:59 GMT
I agree french! Thats what i thought as soon as i saw it. It was a first ridden pony that had it in upside down - i thought it was a small gag at first with the hoop at the bottom.
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Post by hormonal on Jun 12, 2007 12:52:42 GMT
So is a loop ring snaffle different from a Wilkie then? I always thought they were the same, but it would be impossible to fit a loop ring snaffle upside down, so there must be a difference? (I get so confused with all these bits!)
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Post by not logged in on Jun 12, 2007 13:13:24 GMT
I saw a small pony at a show with a wilkie upside down. As I vaguely know the people I pointed this out to them. They explained that they knew, but the cheek pieces of the bridle were too chunky to fit through the top loop. so they reversed it!! This would give more leverage and make this a more severe bit.
I too have noticed how often wilkies are used as a bridoon bit. I am sure Mr. Wilkinson never intended these useful bits to be used in this way.....and I am sure the more knowledgable judges are taking note!!!
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Post by guest99 on Jun 12, 2007 14:38:20 GMT
I have seen this but thought that maybe the pony is ridden in a wilkie for novice or first ridden classes and uses it in a double bridle only to give the appearance of a double when infact the pony is still only being ridden on the wilkie's rein.
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Post by Strong on Jun 12, 2007 15:16:47 GMT
Pull the other one
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Post by padywack nli on Jun 12, 2007 16:44:28 GMT
An upside down Wilkie will work like a one ring gag and as the loops are the same size it is unlikely the cheekpieces wouldnt put through, so think they meant it to be like that. Have also seen FR pony with the bit like that. Mr Wilkie himself suggested I use our FL Wilkie as the bradoon as thats what the horse is ridden in at home
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Post by solitaire on Jun 12, 2007 19:53:58 GMT
Our showing society does not allow Wilkie bits as we do not consider them to be a true snaffle and competitors using them in novice, lead rein and first ridden classes would be asked to either leave the ring or change the bit - every show someone has to be advised of our ruling on these bits.
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Post by guest99 on Jun 12, 2007 20:51:32 GMT
I guess your'e from SWPA, they are the only society I know of with this rule. Don't expect everyone to agree with that.
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Post by Bit on Jun 13, 2007 9:52:32 GMT
Its a shame these bits are getting used this way as i know these bits are very useful when used correctly.
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Post by myler fan on Jun 13, 2007 13:07:36 GMT
Hi we have had a very fussy pony in its mouth and we tried a myler snaffle---- what a great bit of kit, wonderful piece of engineering, said mare is going beautifully and correctly and most of is happy in her mouth, she is lovely and soft and now a real pleasure to ride so please give them a try
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shsg
Newbie
Posts: 26
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Post by shsg on Jun 14, 2007 16:22:25 GMT
When I see a horse with a wilkie and a weymouth I just think it must be badly schooled. If you need that much poll pressure to get it's head down then why are you showing it if it is so badly schooled!!!!! Maybe used upside down it gives it more leverage? if people Can ride in a double then u would no that the weymouth is really not used apart from a last resort brake. some horses respond well to a wilkie so using one in a double dose not mean that a horse is badly schooled!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! i spent a lot of time riding big young nervous horses and highly strung TB and have found that a lot of them take comfort in the gentle poll pressure from a wilkie.
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kilty
Full Member
Posts: 380
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Post by kilty on Jun 14, 2007 21:52:20 GMT
In response to the original question: As long as a wilkie is a legal bit according to the showing society under whose rules you are competing then I don't see why someone shouldn't use it on a double. There could be several reasons for this - so perhaps one shouldn't jump to the rather thoughtless conclusion that the horse/pony isn't schooled. 1. As Paddywack pointed out, if a horse goes in a wilkie at home and is comfortable in that bit, then why not transfer it to a double. My horse goes in a loose ring french link at home, so I went to a reasonable amount of effort to find myself a loose ring french link bradoon for my double - same principle. 2. If a horse goes well in a wilkie, why change it? As shsg pointed out - there are always horses who respond to a particular type of bit. Are you really suggesting that just because someone at the ring-side makes an ill-educated guess about the bits in your horse's mouth you would change your horse out of a bit that suits it and it is happy with? 3. Any bit is only as severe as the hands holding the reins. You can do a hell of a lot more damage riding incorrectly/badly in a plain loose jointed snaffle than you ever would with 'good hands' and a wilkie. So those are my thoughts
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Post by agree entirely on Jun 15, 2007 1:19:08 GMT
In response to the original question: As long as a wilkie is a legal bit according to the showing society under whose rules you are competing then I don't see why someone shouldn't use it on a double. There could be several reasons for this - so perhaps one shouldn't jump to the rather thoughtless conclusion that the horse/pony isn't schooled. 1. As Paddywack pointed out, if a horse goes in a wilkie at home and is comfortable in that bit, then why not transfer it to a double. My horse goes in a loose ring french link at home, so I went to a reasonable amount of effort to find myself a loose ring french link bradoon for my double - same principle. 2. If a horse goes well in a wilkie, why change it? As shsg pointed out - there are always horses who respond to a particular type of bit. Are you really suggesting that just because someone at the ring-side makes an ill-educated guess about the bits in your horse's mouth you would change your horse out of a bit that suits it and it is happy with? 3. Any bit is only as severe as the hands holding the reins. You can do a hell of a lot more damage riding incorrectly/badly in a plain loose jointed snaffle than you ever would with 'good hands' and a wilkie. So those are my thoughts need we say more.............. its all been very well said
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Post by Guestless on Jun 15, 2007 9:33:54 GMT
I would far rather see a pony going sweetly (and safely!) in a wilkie snaffle than a pony going round obviously unhappy in a milder snaffle. I'm not sure that we should worry about how severe a bit is anyway and think we should be more concerned about how severe the hands that hold the reins are!
A severe bit being used by someone with gentle hands will IMO be more gentle than the mildest snaffle being used by someone with hard hands.
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