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Post by Kerbeck on Oct 17, 2011 21:08:11 GMT
I'm not going to comment on this particular instance as I wasn't there, however I will say that natives are very slow to mature both mentally and Physically, hence I waited until my fell was 6 and a half to back him and ride him away, now a year on he is a very happy pony that has done very well in his novice season ( mostly local, 3 agriculturals and great yorks) as a 8 year old he will be doing county novices and a couple of opens and will not contend the hoys opens properly until he is 9, call me crazy but he is happy, well developed and consistent in his work
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Post by magpie on Oct 17, 2011 22:24:25 GMT
This does seem outrageous - I wasnt there so cannot pass comment personally, however, as someone says the pony was in evening performances as well so not just a look around and getting used to cantering with others in a group.
We have a 3year old who we were going to break this winter, however, he didnt turn 3 until July so we decided to leave him mature and grow more over the winter and break him in the spring when we have lighter evenings and can spend more time on him. We can then take him to one or two local riding club shows in july & august. He is not native at all, he is part bred arab so he needs time to mentally mature as well as physically.
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Post by hairys69 on Oct 18, 2011 11:27:19 GMT
i do feel sorry for the other riders in the class as they didnt break any rules and there ponies went well. ven tho the class was small i wouldnt say that they where all novicey ponies.
However theres a huge difference between taking a pony for a look round (which should be done at a small quiet show).. its a big ask for a 3yr old to go into an evening performance where it could of blown its brain.. and then where would you be?? A&E!!
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Post by bethanyy on Oct 18, 2011 11:28:56 GMT
Fiesty one you are. You definately need to utilise your passions lol. LMAO! Brilliant ;D
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Post by gauntlet on Oct 19, 2011 13:20:04 GMT
We are lucky on Horsegossip to have so many perfect people. People who have never done anything wrong in any way. They get angry when animals are thin, fat, overworked, too old, too young and too small or too big. The list of peoples misdemeanour's are endless that they criticise!! Broaden your minds and get a life.......
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Post by network on Oct 19, 2011 13:53:01 GMT
We are lucky on Horsegossip to have so many perfect people. People who have never done anything wrong in any way. They get angry when animals are thin, fat, overworked, too old, too young and too small or too big. The list of peoples misdemeanour's are endless that they criticise!! Broaden your minds and get a life....... I think the point of this thread is that the person broke the rules and therefore should be disqualified and I agree, I dont really care who owns or was riding it but rules are rules
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Post by Snowy on Oct 19, 2011 13:58:47 GMT
We are lucky on Horsegossip to have so many perfect people. People who have never done anything wrong in any way. They get angry when animals are thin, fat, overworked, too old, too young and too small or too big. The list of peoples misdemeanour's are endless that they criticise!! Broaden your minds and get a life....... I think the point of this thread is that the person broke the rules and therefore should be disqualified and I agree, I dont really care who owns or was riding it but rules are rules Thanks Desktop I coudn't think of a way to reply to that with out being a b*tch.
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Post by ellieraga on Oct 19, 2011 14:12:22 GMT
Gauntlet you arent taxpayers brother or sister are you ? Just wondering as you voth seem to make the same stupid comments Couldnt agree more desktop, people just dont seem to get the point
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Post by get a grip on Oct 19, 2011 14:40:31 GMT
Think people are going over the top about this!!
What is all this rubbish about people saying that the pony hasn't matured or isnt get looked after and is being overworked, i now this family and the pony and it is not getting over worked, to be honest couldnt ask for a better home, a little ten year old works this pony twice maybe 3 times a week and hacks out alot.
Did anyone actually compain on the day because no one has mentioned that. People have complained and said everything over the sun on here, but never said anything on the day!!
and yes i do agree that they shouldn't have took it out as a three year old but it is done and dusted know get over it!!!
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Post by poor pony on Oct 19, 2011 14:48:58 GMT
What is all this rubbish about people saying that the pony hasn't matured or isnt get looked after and is being overworked, a little ten year old works this pony twice maybe 3 times a week and hacks out alot. Dear 'get a grip'. I think you have well and truely put your foot in it. You are claiming the pony is not overworked but have put that it is WORKED 3 times a week and hacked out A LOT that's a lot for a pony aged 3.5 years (maybe not even that). My 3 year olds are still in the field, 2 untouched, one sat on and back out there. And my 4 rising 5 year old hasn't even seen a show ring yet let alone under saddle and has been turned away to mature. People are not making a big deal. Rules have been broken and actually its about welfare too. I don't think you're doing the family any favours at all now so perhaps best to keep quiet and as you say get a grip before you make it any worse
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Post by rhosyn on Oct 19, 2011 14:52:42 GMT
KUDOS!!!!
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Post by get a grip on Oct 19, 2011 15:09:31 GMT
listen dear!
I dont think a ten year old trotting and cantering around a paddock is alot to ask from a three old and hacking a little to get use to the traffic.
and actually he is been broken and turned out to mature. probably done 3-4 max shows in hand not a lot!!
i havent put my foot in it because i hadn't a reason to anyway, yes they broke the rules and maybe they will learn from their mistake in the future. but unfair on people saying they dont look after there ponies, every pony i have seen of theres has looked amazing!! dont think people should judge them when they dont now them!
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Post by cayo on Oct 19, 2011 15:32:34 GMT
To be fair I think we all have our own ideas about what is right and wrong when it comes to breaking and working youngsters and what ever our opinon is dosent always make it the right one ,to be fair animals vary a lot when it comes to maturity ,so I see it a bit like religion and wouldnt want other people shoving their ideas down my throat,yes have an opinion and voice it but dont get high and mighty about it .
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Post by jump4joy on Oct 19, 2011 15:42:50 GMT
Few more weeks then it can compete anyway..if ridden by a 10 year old do you really believe it is so bad?? come on be honest. It is a hardy Dartmoor pony, that can run on the moors uphill and downdale, running in herds, being chased, potentially bullied & kicked in the pecking order ...if this pony has only done one show then i think what a future and ability to build on! We ride all ours at the back end of their 3 year old year..put them away over the winter and work on any loose areas after christmas..the only issue here is the '4 year old and over' rule was broken..at least now we are aware that there are people out there watching us for any possible mistakes, intentional or otherwise ready to jump up and down and shout from the highest tree and tell the world and his mother...beware big brother is watching........and yes BSPS years ago did allow 3 year old ponies to compete after the 31st July and one very famous 14.2 show pony did just that and became a prolific Wembley winner..it wasn't over done, over shown and went on for years... it is about the quality and quantity of work done with 3 year olds and being sensible!! Watch out everyone..sounds like there is a potential superstar Dartmoor out there :-) :-)
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Post by gauntlet on Oct 19, 2011 15:49:32 GMT
This is not a welfare issue! The show isn't affiliated to any society so what rule has been broken? Holly of Spring was shown under saddle as a 3 year old and then went on to win Pony of the Year 4 times and then bred several successful offspring, without suffering any detrimental effects. Ponies 20 years ago were often shown as 3 year old and went on to compete into their teens. Limbs, joints and feet were a lot better as they weren't left doing nothing except getting fat in a field "maturing". Moan about the hundreds of tethered horses, the masses of ponies on dung ridden patches that exist all over the country..... or subscribe to The Brooke hospital if you feel that strongly! The question here was, is it right to show a 3 year old under saddle...... answer..... debatable!!
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Post by welshie2 on Oct 19, 2011 16:18:58 GMT
If the rules of the show state that ridden ponies must be 4 years old, then the pony should not have been entered. End of. i totally agree, at the end of the day rules are rules, and in place for a reason
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Post by jump4joy on Oct 19, 2011 16:23:16 GMT
.............. quantity and quality of work done with 3 year olds is more important and the knowledge of the people doing the work..my guess is the owners couldn't care less about the rosette ( i don't know them from adam either) maybe wanted to try their pony before putting it away for the winter who know the reasons?? but years ago ponies were shown the back end of their 3 year old year..many went on to be champions for years...but a lot more knowledable horsemen then tho..also less lami..less over feeding..less being kept in all the time, more hacking, more ridden by children..you only have to look at past champions life span in comparison to current champs to know ... a little knowledge cause a lot of damage!!!
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Post by gauntlet on Oct 19, 2011 16:24:21 GMT
Saturday 15th October – Ridden Showing
15th October 2011 44. Veteran M&M 15yrs and over 09.00 45. Novice M&M Junior 16yrs and under* 10.00 46. Novice M&M Senior over 16yrs* 11.00 47. M&M Lead Rein 9yrs and under* 12.00 48. M&M First Ridden 12yrs and under* 13..00 49. Ridden Welsh A&B 14.00 50. Ridden Welsh C 15.00 51. Ridden Welsh D 16.00 52. Ridden M&M Large Breeds exc Welsh 17.00 53. Ridden M&M Small Breeds exc Welsh 18.00 Evening Performance 19.30 * Snaffle bit only
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Post by gauntlet on Oct 19, 2011 16:26:07 GMT
FAQ
Pre booked entries £15.00, Entries on the day £20.00.
Pairs pre-booked £20.00. Entries on the day £30.00.
First aid is charged at £2.00 per competitor, per day.
*Denotes Snaffle Bit only for these classes
**Denotes this will be the first class of the Evening Performance
Limited Stabling is available on site. Please book early to avoid disappointment.
Day stabling is avable 8am – 8pm £20 per day
Night Stabling is available 8pm – 8am £20 per night
No classes will commence before NBT.
Judges will be announced on the website.
Running order for evening performances will be as the day time classes with a supreme at the end of each evening
Child handler classes will have their own supreme in the evening after the completion of the class 42.
Concours'd'Elegance
"Formal or Traditional "- Modern formal riding wear or traditional correct period costume.
"Fantasia" All gowns and non traditional forms of Concours"d"Elegance costumes.
Novice deemed as that combination of horse and rider not to have won a first place within that discipline previous to 01.01.11.
All ages as of 01.01.11
No spurs allowed in any Equitation, M&M classes or Junior showing classes.
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Post by bow1607 on Oct 19, 2011 16:37:02 GMT
It would help if the show organiser could come on and confirm weather there is/is not a rule regarding the age on what a horse/pony can be ridden at NWC...... then that could be put to bed! I have looked through this thread and can't see anyone anywhere stating this pony isn't looked after! Everyone is going to have different views on when a horse should be broken, just like many other elements in the horsey world...... which many have been discussed on here a million times over, if we were all the same and agreed on everything.... what a boring world we would live in!
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Post by bernie1956 on Oct 19, 2011 17:00:32 GMT
.............. quantity and quality of work done with 3 year olds is more important and the knowledge of the people doing the work..my guess is the owners couldn't care less about the rosette ( i don't know them from adam either) maybe wanted to try their pony before putting it away for the winter who know the reasons?? but years ago ponies were shown the back end of their 3 year old year..many went on to be champions for years...but a lot more knowledable horsemen then tho..also less lami..less over feeding..less being kept in all the time, more hacking, more ridden by children..you only have to look at past champions life span in comparison to current champs to know ... a little knowledge cause a lot of damage!!! Don't agree with showing a three year old in a ridden class...but absolutely agree with this! I have been around horses for 50 years, and never seen as many sick and sorry animals as I see these days....usually owned by people who do love their animals, and spend a fortune on rugs and god knows what.
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Post by ellieraga on Oct 19, 2011 17:11:46 GMT
Ok everyone i think we know have the answer dont you ? Getagrip obviousley has conncections with the pony or the owners and has clearly confirmed in writing that said pony did go out as a three year old and he/she even agreed pony shouldnt of been taken out So yes rules have been broken and i feel maybe they are slightly taking the p*** that they have got away with this, but if they are happy to win rosettes by means of cheating and also a drag a ten year old child into this then this is there decision only . Something i would not want to do with a child or pony of mine but then everyone is differnet.
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Post by saltypony on Oct 19, 2011 19:08:11 GMT
Rules are there for a reason !!!!!!!! I was shocked to read about this.
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Post by eskvalleystud on Oct 21, 2011 20:11:39 GMT
can't imagine it can be really all that beneficial to be at that stage at that age maybe ponies were out showing at that age years ago but they also never had the longlivity as they do nowadays, better to give them time nowadays as they are living alot longer now, why rush them at such a young age - I would imagine all native breeds benefit from ridden work really only starting as a 4 year old or even older in quite a number of cases, especially since they could still be under saddle at 30! let them be babies is what I think, lots of time in the future to go do work
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Post by colourful on Oct 21, 2011 20:58:59 GMT
People will spend a fortune on tack, lorries, hay, stabling, grazing, rugs, boots, bandages, entry fees, diesel, etc etc - personally I feel that the most precious thing you can give a horse is time - and recognise when it needs it.
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