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Post by Dopey on Jun 14, 2007 22:16:04 GMT
I recently attended a show and noticed that a coloured lead rein pony had its thingy hanging from its sheath. In my opinion I would say this pony was doped! It was hanging out constantly even when trotting, so therefore if it needed a wee it would have probably put it back up. I would be interested to hear other peoples opinions on this as I believe it would have probably been given ACP. What do other people think? I feel more random dope testing needs to be made available at shows to stop this happening!
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Post by specs on on Jun 14, 2007 23:37:46 GMT
see, and you dont need to look close---- ITS RIFE, happenining everywhere... and in many cases - not even hidden, some ponies glugging more than 2 tubes of Defuse on top of who knows what else.. sadly the testing is too expensive for most societies to conduct it too often, Sad but true, the winning for some people is everything
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Post by nappies on Jun 15, 2007 0:08:10 GMT
Too true. Once enquired about testing a pony that looked doped. Was quite happy to part with the £25 complaint fee. Then told I would have to cough up another £200 for the test, which I would get back if tested positive. Afraid £200 is a lot of money - even if I was 99.9% sure. Perhaps testing fees could be lowered so more ponies tested- then less ponies would be doped. I can't see how they come up with such an exorbitant(sp) fee anyway??
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Post by technology on Jun 15, 2007 1:14:09 GMT
a british based company are working on an idiot proof testing kit that societies can use themselves will they want to..? remains to be seen.... dont hold yer breath......
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Post by dopey2 on Jun 15, 2007 8:30:55 GMT
I have to say although i agree that it does go on sometimes i have known ponies who are given other 'legal' calmers to hang their willy as it makes them need the loo which if you have a pony like me that won't go to the loo at shows you are in trouble! I didnt see the pony in q but not all ponies that hang their willies are doped but i am not saying that all aren't either, also does that mean if a loose willy is the only means of telling a mare that gets doped is never noticed?
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Post by Guestless on Jun 15, 2007 9:30:03 GMT
I think you need to be VERY careful when making assertions like this. I have a gelding who often has his dongle dangling and he has NEVER been doped. So far thankfully it hasn't been a problem at shows, but he is very relaxed at home and my instructor has often commented that it may look as if he has had something.
At the end of the day, I know if my pony was tested the test would be negative but I do worry about judges drawing their own (incorrect) conclusions and marking us down.
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Post by think again on Jun 15, 2007 9:48:49 GMT
Doping is particualrly rife in lead rein and first ridden classes - but - what worries me most about this is that sometimes a pony can have an adverse reaction to the drug and I have ssen one who was doped for a medical procedure go completely beserk. Dopers put their children at serious risk. There should be more dope testing for the sake of children.
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Post by showsec on Jun 15, 2007 11:07:52 GMT
I think people should spend more time schooling and having suitable ponies than doping them be it with legal calmers or acp type drugs, i mean when is a lead rein pony a lead rein pony ? not when its a drugged lead rein pony to make it chilled.
A happy pony that has had time etc spent on it getting it used to situations is surley a better option, maybe i am wearing rose tinted glasses in my ideal kind of world. Shortcuts and dope in my opnion are not the answer.
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Post by Interlude on Jun 15, 2007 11:15:15 GMT
Well I'm in trouble this year then as my new horse hangs his bits whenever stood! He has a rather large dangly sheath and looks half asleep the majority of the time. He also wee's frequently but won't go with me on board! I look forward to being accused of having doped him then anyone will be welcome to dope test him as I won't have sedatives on the yard.
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Post by Time on Jun 15, 2007 11:27:48 GMT
Maybe showing should follow the Driving events and include a doping levy on entry forms. It's time showing cleaned up its act and followed other equine disciplines. Riders and judges should not be exempt. Entries are expensive and the clean competitor derserves fair competition. Nowadays every society should aim to ensure this. At the moment they avoid it.
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Post by Have to Agree on Jun 15, 2007 11:55:23 GMT
With Showsec - people do not spend enough time on their animals!! All that is wanted is a quick fix to get them winning! This make showing all the more frustrating for those of us who do care about our animals and take our time ensuring they are ready for the job they are expected to do! Dope testing on the cheap would certainly change this situation
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Post by Agree Too on Jun 15, 2007 13:56:56 GMT
Funny how those at the top of the societies avoid this issue every time it's raised. Is there anything we as competitors can do to make them look at testing ideas? Think we would all pay a levy for testing if it encouraged fair, straight competition. In hand and ridden ponies should be tested.
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Post by crazymare on Jun 15, 2007 17:34:23 GMT
How about magnesium based calmers?
Those that work beacuse the horse is deficient in magnesium therfore the affect of the adreneline is much more prounonced. Would you therefore say a horse couldn't be fed a vitamin and mineral supplement? After all that is effectivly what a magnesium based calmer is.
Personally I have no problem with Defuse, Nupafeed and the like. I do have a problem with ACP etc however as all horses react differently I don't believe OP is in a position to say a pony was doped.
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Post by producers on Jun 15, 2007 18:12:59 GMT
we have been tested many times when we have done well in big qualifiers but i find that they dont even bother testing the producers who have won because most likely they know they will have been doped! i think personally producers are the worst for doping ponies! also these days there are calmers that cant even be traced through a dope test so some people who dope their ponies can still get away with it!
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kilty
Full Member
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Post by kilty on Jun 15, 2007 18:22:31 GMT
It strikes me that there are some awfully sweeping assertions being made on this thread. Having worked on a professional yard and for two different producers I can honestly say that I have NEVER been party to or aware of any horse competing under the influence of illegal substances.
Why on earth would a producer risk their reputation by doping a horse/pony? Producers do get dope tested at shows. I've seen it happen many times and, having worked on the aforementioned yards, I can assure you that it is for this very reason that people are careful to the point of obsession about drugs if there is a horse on antibiotics or other medication on the yard.
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Post by some on Jun 15, 2007 18:29:49 GMT
i didnt say all producers just some! yes agree some dont but there are also some that do thats what i was saying sorry if it did not seem clear!
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Post by not likely on Jun 15, 2007 18:51:46 GMT
You should be very careful about what you are saying i was on producers yard namely the Hollings many years ago and they are the most concientious of people the children were not allowed to give treats to their ponies for fear of prohibited substances they would never dope anything i had a really silly novice and all they ever used was perseverance and they had at least 1 pony tested while we were on the yard and it was negative. Producers have much more to lose as they have so many ponies in their care they will not be allowed to show any ponies if they were stupid enough to do such a thing so just get your facts right there are some looney people who post on here.
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Post by Value added on Jun 15, 2007 21:12:55 GMT
No doubt some producers do and some who don't. The issue at stake is that more should be done to condemn doping or monitor it. The idea of a levy sounds sensible. Societies do need to open their eyes and address this matter if they are to continue to raise entry fees for championship shows. They must appear to be acting to protect competition and the values which most of us hold.
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Post by nappies on Jun 16, 2007 7:45:15 GMT
Totally agree 'value added' but how do we get them to do this? ??
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Post by mara on Jun 16, 2007 9:38:26 GMT
I think the alleged problem of doping probably goes hand in hand with people who seem to need hours of continuous lunging to get their ponies settled.
I had a potential riding pony who always showed a bit of his undercarriage & he'd never had anything administered.
I have no problem with some of the milder calmers being administered but a controlled drug is an absolute no no.
I do wonder if these people are declaring ACP on their pony's passports as required BY LAW - it is a controlled drug with no withdrawel period.
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Post by Paddywack NLI on Jun 16, 2007 10:26:03 GMT
Have to say, at a show last Saturday in the baking heat a first ridden pony was lunged for 2 hours, then ridden for an hour before its classes. Bet it wished it's owners had given it some wee pills instead No FR pony should need that amount of work before being ridden
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Post by NONAME on Jun 16, 2007 19:08:47 GMT
Have to say, at a show last Saturday in the baking heat a first ridden pony was lunged for 2 hours, then ridden for an hour before its classes. Bet it wished it's owners had given it some wee pills instead No FR pony should need that amount of work before being ridden Wouldn't have been at Strathallan would it & started off being lunged slap bang in the middle of the horse walk.
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Post by padywack nli on Jun 16, 2007 20:22:03 GMT
Have to say, at a show last Saturday in the baking heat a first ridden pony was lunged for 2 hours, then ridden for an hour before its classes. Bet it wished it's owners had given it some wee pills instead No FR pony should need that amount of work before being ridden Wouldn't have been at Strathallan would it & started off being lunged slap bang in the middle of the horse walk. It sure was
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Post by dopesateofe on Jun 17, 2007 17:40:00 GMT
Yeah i think some of the statements are very sweeping as mentionde above people are choosen at random and producers do get tested as much as home produced people. And again as said above they have far more to lose. East Of England have just been randomly dope testing ponies and all the producers have had ponies in the rings, do you think they wld risk it? My only thing is that the choose something to be dope tested whether it was last or first in the class and it is taken off for 1/2 hr to try and get it to wee, if it doesnt it is sent on its way, bit bizarre i thought it was done through blood testing?
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Post by mollydog on Jun 17, 2007 19:53:05 GMT
What class is the "doped" coloured lead rein pony mentioned earlier? I shall look out for it on my travels!
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mac
Full Member
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Post by mac on Jun 17, 2007 21:57:48 GMT
Have to say, at a show last Saturday in the baking heat a first ridden pony was lunged for 2 hours, then ridden for an hour before its classes. Bet it wished it's owners had given it some wee pills instead No FR pony should need that amount of work before being ridden Personally I couldn't be bothered with a pony that needs that amount of work, but good for them that they did what was necessary to have their pony behaving for their very small jockey without resorting to doping it. The pony certainly was not in any distress and was not dripping in sweat or anything. What are you suggesting? Now we should have a time limit on working in?
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Post by mara on Jun 17, 2007 22:31:32 GMT
I do have an issue with some of the lead rein & FR ponies - I sold a lovely 12hh pony that simply wasn't LR or FR material - he's made a great 2nd pony/WHP as he was just too sharp & forward going to be sensible for a little child.
I personally think a child's pony should be safe enough to bung the child on straight from the stable/lorry with no worries but then maybe I'm old fashioned??
Also, isn't it a catch 22 situation - the pony gets used to that amount of work, gets fitter & fitter & needs more & more work to settle it.
If this is the pony I saw I did overhear one of the pony's connections saying it was getting more & more lit up & sweaty whilst it was being lunged & what a dim place they were lunging it at first - right where the youngstock were being kept quiet on the walk near the fencing. It also seemed to be just running round on the lunge like a bat out of hell at one point.
I do take your point though Mac that at least they were prepared to put that amount of work in rather than dope it to settle it.
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Post by FMM nli on Jun 18, 2007 6:33:48 GMT
Dope testing for hacks, cobs and RH (and I assume all other types) is not selected by the judge, committee or anyone else of a specific horse. The class numbers are put into a pot and a number taken out (i.e. 21), then numbers (for example 1-8) are put into the pot and a number pulled out (i.e. 4). This means that the 4th placed horse in class 21 will be dope tested.
A protruding willy is certainly not evidence that a horse is doped! If people recognise the pony you are talking about from here, you need to be quite careful. There are not that many coloured lead reins around and I know that I would be pretty hacked off if I thought you were talking about my pony.
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Post by R U Worried on Jun 18, 2007 6:40:12 GMT
Well I heard that they dope tested a few randomly at East of England (as they normally do there). Didn't someone get 'done' there a few years ago??
Have also been very reliably informed that they will be dope testing at The Royal this year.............
I dont think its a bad thing to randomly dope test, after all if you have nothing to hide then you wont be worried and it stops anyone being tempted to use anything dodgy 'just in case'.
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Post by FMM nli on Jun 18, 2007 6:51:44 GMT
It is random - totally random - and no one knows until the end of the class which pony or horse will be tested.
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