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Post by clobo121082 on Jun 19, 2007 12:04:17 GMT
I am not really wanting to get into this debate about the results at east of england for intermediates as i agree there is no need to be nasty it is not the jockeys fault but thought i wld just reply to a few things from 'disgusted'. I do agree why shldnt 14.2's do it if they are allowed but i do whole heartedly think they shouldnt be allowed. A 13.2 sp can't do a 14.2 sp class so why should a 14.2 sp be allowed to do a 15hh sp class?? I believe originally 14.2's were allowed in as when the class first was set up they obviously wanted the numbers entered, this rule however should have been updated a few years ago when intermediates became the most popular class more so than show ponies.
I think what people have the problem with is their being no differentiation (sp) in type. Surely if it is a top 14.2 show PONY how can it be a top int which should be a little HORSE? However this is what the judges should be deciding not the competitors
However i also think many intermediate people have a problem with the fact that many 'truer' to type intermediates are being knocked down the line by pretty sp that move better or are more eyecatching with small cute jockeys on - this is not what an intermediate class is. Also you are now bascially ending up with two of the same classes at hoys and rihs with the same ponies in it, THERE SHOULD BE A DIFFERENCE.
As for 13.2's doing as many classes that is just not true, I can't think of one 13.2 sp that has got its ticket as a show hunter pony as well? Realisitcally now the types are so different, maybe a few years ago ponies did both but not anymore. So really intermediates are the only class that has this cross over in it.
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Post by please advise on Jun 19, 2007 15:35:57 GMT
Clobo you deserve a karma for that you are SPOT ON digusted needs to get a grip and get her facts right the only people who think 14-2s should be allowed in are the people with them i would love to see their faces if 13-2 were suddenly allowed in their class and took half the tickets for RIHS and HOYS and do you know what people with 13-2s would be all for it.
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Post by please advise on Jun 19, 2007 15:38:57 GMT
Disgusted jjust for the record i had 3 ayt RIHS and HOYS and they all got good placings i just want a fair system
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Post by windsor on Jun 19, 2007 16:08:48 GMT
LR won the same jacket at Royal Windsor Show in the coloureds. I was gobsmacked to say the least, its just not the done thing. If I can dry my soaking wet jacket somehow, so can she!!!
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Post by amateur on Jun 19, 2007 17:24:47 GMT
The coloureds class at EofE was pathetic - I watched in disbelief. As an amateur thinking of giving coloured classes a go, I have been wtahcing with growing dismay at the dominaiton of producers and blatant face judging that goes on. FDont think I'll bother. Well done, Solarina, hit the nail on the head
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sally1
Junior Member
Posts: 187
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Post by sally1 on Jun 19, 2007 18:04:42 GMT
'please advise' u r entitled to ur own opinions but name one show where it has been beaten this yr apart from e of e when it was naughty and chesire when it was lame? (i think due to the hard ground) answer ..no where... my intermediate is off this yr due to an injury and i have been studying the intermediate classes v.closely! i have not seen one horse which is even on a par with it! yh its not new to the scene n has been doing it for a couple of yrs but i feel the overall picture looks good this yr and it looks different to what it did last yr! i also dont feel u should slag off a ponies conformation on a forum! some opinions should not be mentioned! i kno many people who LOVE the horse! anyway watch this space lets see how the rest of the yr turns out....
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penny
Junior Member
Posts: 176
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Post by penny on Jun 19, 2007 18:27:47 GMT
We have competed in small int. we have a 148cm. By no imagination is he a show pony. He is a true intermedieate. May be the answer would be to nominate which class you wish to compete in each season like you have to with Hacks etc.?
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Post by SaturdayGirl on Jun 19, 2007 18:33:47 GMT
I agree clobo; there are plenty of 148 'horsey' types that contest intermediates and small hacks. They should not be excluded from the intermediate classes but they need to find some way to keep the classes true to type. i think the 'nomination' system would be a fantastic idea. Much as you can't show a RH/ Hack/ Hunter in more than 2 classes, because, however lovely they are they are different types.
As for LR it is not what she wears that gets to me; but her absolute rudeness to stewards, judges, other competitiors and people in the warm up. What I always liked about coloureds if that there are still a lot of home producers at the very top level; and although a lot of judging is still very fair I feel the faciness is coming through.
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Post by coat on Jun 19, 2007 19:33:37 GMT
Perhaps she is thinking of putting the coat on ebay at the end of the season
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Post by disgusted on Jun 19, 2007 20:15:15 GMT
Clobo you deserve a karma for that you are SPOT ON digusted needs to get a grip and get her facts right the only people who think 14-2s should be allowed in are the people with them i would love to see their faces if 13-2 were suddenly allowed in their class and took half the tickets for RIHS and HOYS and do you know what people with 13-2s would be all for it. I was not saying whether 148cm should be allowed or not, the fact is they are so why the hell shouldnt they go in them? There are enough top class ponies wasted as they have not got jockeys, if having classes that they can continue to do prolongs they're career surely this can only be a good thing? I am sure you all whinge about the increasing costs of entry fees, if you stop ponies competing in certain classes numbers will be reduced and do you really think that the entry fees will stop the same then? As for me getting a grip and getting my facts right the 138cm show pony was just an example, if you require another one it is no different to a section b doubling up as a show hunter, etc. I also think please advise you should also concentrate on getting your facts right as i believe in an earlier post that you said harlaw was in the 148cm show pony class which is a complete pack of lies, he only did the intermediates!!! IF you have had so many at top placing in hoys it is a shame you are not willing to name them, you seem to have a negative opinion on everyone else horses so yours must be perfect if they are so much better than all the others! Perhaps you should also consider how you would have felt after the high of qualifiing if you had come on here and found small minded individuals b*tching about your pony You all talk about the shake up showing needs, well one of them is to get rid of this pathetic silly comments especially about children! they are the foundations of our sport for the future and if they come on here finding all sorts is being said about them they are really not going to wish to go on carry on competing. I am not saying you are not entitled to express your feelings and opinons i just think you should think twice about the manner in whch you express it
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Post by please advise on Jun 19, 2007 22:13:21 GMT
Disgusted that is a good name for you as that is what i feel about your posts. I think Clobo was right in everything she said and IMO made you look silly.
Secondly i did not say that Harlow was in the 14-2 class i just presumed he was so if he wasnt that was my mistake not a pack of lies
Thirdly i would not be so sad as to pretend my ponies qualified if they did not however if i name them then i will lose my anonymity as everyone will know who i am and it is MY choice to stay anonymous as it is yours. I do not care who you are and you have as much right to your opinion as anyone else including me however i find your posts totally infuriating you just totally dismiss everyone elses views there are lots of people who do NOT agree with the 14-2 situation and hopefully the BSPS will make changes next season my final word on the subject is leave the children in their classes they have enough to choose from and let the true intermediate riders have a class to call their own
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Post by Tall on Jun 20, 2007 6:15:39 GMT
I am 14 and 5'9" and ride a large intermediate. To change the age rules for Ints would mean I would have to ride against my mum. She says she had to do this at my age but I like Int classes as it is even more difficult to compete against the professionals. I think the smalls should exceed 148 but please don't alter the age rules. Imagine me on a 138.
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Post by disgusted on Jun 20, 2007 12:18:51 GMT
Disgusted that is a good name for you as that is what i feel about your posts. I think Clobo was right in everything she said and IMO made you look silly. Secondly i did not say that Harlow was in the 14-2 class i just presumed he was so if he wasnt that was my mistake not a pack of lies Thirdly i would not be so sad as to pretend my ponies qualified if they did not however if i name them then i will lose my anonymity as everyone will know who i am and it is MY choice to stay anonymous as it is yours. I do not care who you are and you have as much right to your opinion as anyone else including me however i find your posts totally infuriating you just totally dismiss everyone elses views there are lots of people who do NOT agree with the 14-2 situation and hopefully the BSPS will make changes next season my final word on the subject is leave the children in their classes they have enough to choose from and let the true intermediate riders have a class to call their own Sounds to me like i've hit a nerve and you don't like hearing some truths about yourself! I think your find that clobo was very polite in expressing her views and i have no problem with her. At the end of the day my message clearly was that they're is problems with class mixes,etc but this is not the jockeys faults so don't try blaming them
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Post by disgusted on Jun 20, 2007 12:26:54 GMT
I thought the judging of the 13 hd show hunter class was outrageous the pony that won did at least 6 wrong legs 3 or 4 attempst on the first rein and did not manage it then changed rein and another 3 attempts before it got it i t should not have been in the placings no matter how much they liked it. Sally Fluck should be struck off for allowing that pony to win her show mark should have been so low it could not get placed and the BSPS need to sort her out people need to complain about this now as she will lose her star over this if enough people complain. .
the young girl riding the 14-2 looked about 12 it is truely making a mockery of the small class, but i disagree that gentle breeze is head and shoulders above anything else i much prefered the winner and there are some good horses in that class also i have yet to see it go really well. I do agree that the intermediates need to perform and the first 2 in the large class went terrible and should not have been placed.
east of eng when you say you agree with the small show riding type you mean you agree it should not have won. Also what baffled me was if the judges loved the pony so much why did they not have it top in its own class very strange i thought the winner of the 14-2 class was a different type alltogether. Another bug bear for me is some 14-2s have got 4 classes at the RIHS open 14-2s pretty polly 14-2s small int and part bred arabs talk about getting your monies worth, and i will be surprized if more than half the tickets to HOYS will be the 14-2s up to now. what has qualified i think up to now they are all 14-2s. can some one give us a list
Sally i disagree with you gentle breeze is a lovely moving quality int BUT it has a very obvious roach back and i have NEVER seen it go fantasticl this season i am sorry but at 1b it just did a very basic show i was there and there were better shows on the day.
I think you'll see please advise that if you look back at your previous posts how pathetic and silly you yourself sound. You didn't like the shp, or the srt, the girl on the srt looked to young, the large intermediate has a roached back and only does basic shows. Is there any horse you haven't got nasty objections to?
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Post by its time on Jun 20, 2007 12:49:19 GMT
....for the BSPS to ballot their members properly on the subject of Intermediate eligibility. I do feel for the riders of true type Intermediates who are regularly beaten by pretty, pretty 148cm show ponies- how can a pony be a HOYS standard show pony and a HOYS standard Intermediate? Perhaps the BSPS needs to give a stronger outline to judges just what type they are supposed to be looking for. I think choosing the class to contend for 148cms at the start of the season is an excellent idea, perhaps too the BSPS could give a list of movements of which two are compulsory in an Intermediates individual show, rein back, walk to canter, canter serpentine, GALLOP etc., this would then help prepare the riders for adult competition which is the original intention of the class. Judges- be adventurous!!!!!!
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Post by Rockstar on Jun 20, 2007 13:10:35 GMT
Now, now people. Please keep these threads from getting personal - and perhaps start another thread for the whole 'Intermediate/14.2hh' discussion (although it has been done to death before) to save the EoE one from getting off track.
Perhaps'its time' is right and we ought to be asking the BSPS to ballot its members for their opinion on the situation, rather than b*tching about it amongst ourselves. Its not a new argument after all.......
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Post by get on with it on Jun 20, 2007 22:11:09 GMT
Does it really matter, the pony/horse that goes better and has the best conformation and in the judges opinion is the ideal, should win! So there are a couple of cms in it.
some 14.4hh look as big and go like intermediates, if someone wants to put a highland in a show hunter pony class why not ( it may not win) it up to them.
May be the queston is ,why are these older people hanging around in intermediates, why dont they go into horse/adult classes?
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Post by Ur name suits on Jun 20, 2007 22:22:15 GMT
Disgusted- what you said about people spending more time producing their ponies rather than gossiping like Harlaw Simply The Best is stupid, they bought the pony already winning and in perfect condition for showing!!!! Hence not the hours of production that a novice horse would need, because i know that most of the ponies bought are already up and going require NO WORK. Harlaw Simply The Best is a lovely 148 sp but not in my opinion a intermediate which should be more of a horse hence why they go in hacks also. The rules definatly need changing, and the shows should be made more complex, such as rein backs, walk to canters and one handed such as in the adult classes as it is a step up from ponies. This would sort alot out. Do not say if the judge does not ask for it dont do it. There are plenty of times when it has not been required, and has been done and the competitors have not been penalised. A one handed canter would be a good way for intermediate riders to show the obedience of their horse so why not do it? ? Lyn Russell was in horse & hound wearing waterproofs, it looked stupid and she is bringing the standards down she should be told to wear proper attire or not enter.
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Post by Cob on Jun 21, 2007 6:46:26 GMT
Fifteen years ago many cob campetitors wore waterproof coats appropriate to a day out hunting in poor weather, in the ring whenever it rained. Image was not an issue.Legends of the show ring sat attired for hunting in macs, oiled coats, etc and never a bad word was said. They stayed dry and how sensible that is for older folk.
Lynn is no spring chicken and has to look after herself as she has good owners to ride for and does a great job to promote them and their products. There is no excuse for poor manners towards others but the coat criticism is pure spite. Judges are appointed to judge animals not the colour of a coat.
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Post by please advise on Jun 21, 2007 7:04:58 GMT
Disgusted this is the last time i will reply to you as our debate is now getting silly each and every post that i have made has had a valid point, and at no time have i been nasty about anyone (exept you) or any pony i have just answered comments made by other people i love the Harlow pony as a 14-2 i have no problem with the jockey either who i thought rode it well. I love gentle breeze as i stated earlier and was only trying to say it is not perfect as someone else was implying. I have strong views on the intermediate debate as my daughter has a small srt and she is 22 years old and cannot go in other classes on her pony as it is a true small.
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Post by but on Jun 21, 2007 8:01:09 GMT
But that's the problem with the way a lot of showing classes are going - TYPE should be far more influential than it often is. It doesn't depend on height; a 148cm can be either a top class SP OR a top class intermediate but a pony should not be able to get to the top in both
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Post by Another example on Jun 21, 2007 9:34:58 GMT
Agree that a pony cannot be both. Mouncoulfield Freedom wins both and in my opinion is a lovely 148 sp but again not a intermediate because he is not horsey enough. More emphasis needs to be made on type as the conformation should not be judged as it would for a sp class, they should be viewed as a horse not a pony.
Perhaps they should introduce a judging system which allows 5 marks for display of obedience -such as a rein back ect and if no show of obedience present they should get 0/5.
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Post by Rockstar on Jun 21, 2007 10:45:50 GMT
I'm going to lock this thread now - It should have been for East of England comments only but has turned into an (at times upleasant) discussion about 14.s and Intermediates.
If you wish to discuss these (again!) PLEASE start a new thread!
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